Phoenix CXXIII: Who Wants to Pay Our Bills?

[Acesolid]

Wha...What happened...wher...where I am...

Ooohhh...my head...that wench...she must have slipped me something...

Car broke down...no cell service...went in to make a call to AAA...had to use the bar phone...wait an hour or so until they would get here...sat at the bar, ordered milk...she sat down next to me...started talking...couple of minutes later...no idea what happened...

Wait...what did I post...don't remember...head's foggy...she must have used my laptop while I was out of it...

Wait...where's my wallet...she fleeced me, too...

Bravo! How I picture that scene:

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

didn't we have like 5 thread titles in a row themed around Hotel California?

 

[Glacial]

Does Arizona have a local version of C-SPAN?

 

[WildGopher]

This one is against it...

Jenna Bentley, BARRY GOLDWATER INSTITUTE FOR PUBLIC POLICY RESEARCH

Interesting. If Goldwater Institute is against the bill, that might carry some weight with some of the GOP senators.

Senate floor session starts at 1:30 and Worsley's bill is one of only a half-dozen or so bills scheduled, although a second group of bills has been added the past two floor sessions.

Here are senators' votes we can expect. If it's because of how they voted in the Transportation Committee, I put a T after their name; if based on what they told Craig Harris at azcentral, I put a H. If because a co-sponsor of the original bill, I put a C.

Probable Yes votes - 7


Sen. Brophy McGee T,C Republican
Sen. Worsley T,C Republican
Sen. Fann T,C Republican
Sen. Pratt T, C Republican
Sen. Borrilli C Republican
Sen. Otundo T Democrat
Sen. Peshlakai T Democrat


Probable No votes - 5

Sen. Mendez T Democrat
Sen. Lesko H Republican
Sen. Kavanaugh H Republican
Sen. Hobbs H Democrat
Sen. Yarbrough H Republican


Sen. Hobbs, the Democratic leader, suggested not many of her party members seemed to support the bill, but 2 of 3 Democrats in the Transportation Committee voted for the bill, so we'll see. The other surprising thing to me was that Sen. Yee, who represents Glendale, was non-committal when interviewed by Harris. But she also represents part of Phoenix, and maybe this district could end up being in Phoenix, or maybe she just doesn't tip her hat about her vote often. Anyway, those are the senators who've either voted or talked or sponsored the original bill. However, after having 4 co-sponsors of his original SB1474, he only got one - Sen. Fann, to co-sponsor SB1149 with the strike-all amendment.

That leaves 18 senators we haven't heard from. Maybe there will be articles in the morning, with this thing coming up tomorrow, and some senators will tip their hand.

 

[WildGopher]

Does Arizona have a local version of C-SPAN?

Yes, Arizona Capital TV will carry the floor session. It's linked on the Arizona Legislature website, but one of us will post the link tomorrow.

 

[Llama19]

Yes, Arizona Capital TV will carry the floor session. It's linked on the Arizona Legislature website, but one of us will post the link tomorrow.

Why wait until tomorrow...

Link to use: http://azleg.granicus.com/Mediaplayer.php?publish_id=21

 

[Llama19]

Interesting. If Goldwater Institute is against the bill, that might carry some weight with some of the GOP senators.

Senate floor session starts at 1:30 and Worsley's bill is one of only a half-dozen or so bills scheduled, although a second group of bills has been added the past two floor sessions.

Here are senators' votes we can expect. If it's because of how they voted in the Transportation Committee, I put a T after their name; if based on what they told Craig Harris at azcentral, I put a H. If because a co-sponsor of the original bill, I put a C.

Probable Yes votes - 7


Sen. Brophy McGee T,C Republican
Sen. Worsley T,C Republican
Sen. Fann T,C Republican
Sen. Pratt T, C Republican
Sen. Borrilli C Republican
Sen. Otundo T Democrat
Sen. Peshlakai T Democrat
...

But...I recall that Fann, McGee, Otondo, and Peshlakai all 'qualified' their 'Yes' vote...as it is possible that they will be 'No' votes as more information was gleaned after that 'presentation'...

It may not be as close as some think...

 

[Glacial]

This feels like trying to shake or smell Schrodinger's box to determine the quantum state of the cat without opening the box with trying to read the reasons for cancelled press conferences and vote counting (ultimately the unknowns will determine whether it passes or not).
/shakes box with anticipation

 

[blues10]

I am of the belief that this is not about to end so quickly. 20-10 in favour of ol' Gumper's bill. It will get pushed along until a municipal government votes yah or nah in doling out the $55 million to IA and a yearly $24 million dollar arena maintenance fee.

Lots of moving parts here.

 

[WildGopher]

This feels like trying to shake or smell Schrodinger's box to determine the quantum state of the cat without opening the box with trying to read the reasons for cancelled press conferences and vote counting (ultimately the unknowns will determine whether it passes or not).
/shakes box with anticipation

So when is someone going to let that poor cat out of the box, already?! When did Schroedinger come up with that sadistic thing to do to cats, the 1930s? Do you realize that d*mn cat's been stuck in that stupid box almost as long as this Coyotes' saga?!!

 

[Llama19]

This feels like trying to shake or smell Schrodinger's box to determine the quantum state of the cat without opening the box with trying to read the reasons for cancelled press conferences and vote counting (ultimately the unknowns will determine whether it passes or not).
/shakes box with anticipation

I personally wear a gas mask when it come to anything related to Schrodinger's box...

I am of the belief that this is not about to end so quickly. 20-10 in favour of ol' Gumper's bill. It will get pushed along until a municipal government votes yah or nah in doling out the $55 million to IA and a yearly $24 million dollar arena maintenance fee.

Lots of moving parts here.

I think you may be on to something there, blues10...as it is my understanding the Rep. Kern has 'rescheduled' his cancelled press conference from earlier today, for Wednesday...the day after tomorrow's vote...

It is my understanding that there is 'gobs' of lobbying going on from both sides...but Axiom seems to have more 'photos' than anyone realizes...

It may fall, once again, on some local municipal city to ultimately decide this outcome...

 

[MNNumbers]

I personally wear a gas mask when it come to anything related to Schrodinger's box...



I think you may be on to something there, blues10...as it is my understanding the Rep. Kern has 'rescheduled' his cancelled press conference from earlier today, for Wednesday...the day after tomorrow's vote...

It is my understanding that there is 'gobs' of lobbying going on from both sides...but Axiom seems to have more 'photos' than anyone realizes...

It may fall, once again, on some local municipal city to ultimately decide this outcome...

Of course there is lots of lobbying on both sides. I hope for a full exposure of such 'lobbying' later. In the mean time, quite frankly, what is happening here, if this thing passes, is a complete abuse of taxpayer trust. And, that really irritates me. My parents live there. Like most Arizonans, they couldn't care less about hockey. That's real people's money being given away.

Just horrible.....

 

[WildGopher]

But...I recall that Fann, McGee, Otondo, and Peshlakai all 'qualified' their 'Yes' vote...as it is possible that they will be 'No' votes as more information was gleaned after that 'presentation'...

It may not be as close as some think...

If anyone switches their vote, they might feel a need to explain their reasons during the floor debate, so you might see it coming. And you'll see others arguing for and against, so can do your own vote count during the debate, with this 7-5 count as a baseline.

Of course, with "Gump" Worsley backstopping this thing, if the "Yes" vote trails by just one or two with a couple minutes to go, you might see LeBlanc pull his goalie to get another forward in there!

 

[Llama19]

If anyone switches their vote, they might feel a need to explain their reasons during the floor debate, so you might see it coming. And you'll see others arguing for and against, so can do your own vote count during the debate, with this 7-5 count as a baseline.

There will likely have been given 'talking points' similar to what Sen. Worsley had been given when he stated during the committee meeting that he had many 'late night' phone conversations...

Of course, with "Gump" Worsley backstopping this thing, if the "Yes" vote trails by just one or two with a couple minutes to go, you might see LeBlanc pull his goalie to get another forward in there!

Wait...are we switching from transportation to hockey references, now?

 

[WildGopher]

Wait...are we switching from transportation to hockey references, now?

Exactly. So what if Worsley is shipped just before the trade deadline to a place like Seattle or Hartford or Long Island that needs a senator with a good stadium bill, and maybe a concert hall, to boot? That would be great for his new city, but with the trade deadline approaching fast, he'd probably miss the vote tomorrow!

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Hutch, Get off Tucson and the AHL.... It will have no bearing, zero, none, nada, zilch, nyet. If the team moved it will be moved regardless of the status of Tucson. The AHL franchise is merely an asset.

i WON'T UNTIL THE UNINFORMED FAN AND/OR THIS SITUATION RESOLVES ITSELF

 

[Fairview]

Of course there is lots of lobbying on both sides. I hope for a full exposure of such 'lobbying' later. In the mean time, quite frankly, what is happening here, if this thing passes, is a complete abuse of taxpayer trust. And, that really irritates me. My parents live there. Like most Arizonans, they couldn't care less about hockey. That's real people's money being given away.

Just horrible.....

I agree with you 100%. This is how the NHL does business, however. If the vote can be flipped this easily in the senate, then the next step in getting a municipality to fund the team will be easy. The good news in all this is that 5 years after the new arena opens, we will be right back here debating a new much larger subsidy ask. Nothing changes really...the tax payers continue to get screwed and the team under this ownership group continues to operate on a shoestring budget.

 

[Montrealer]

i WON'T UNTIL THE UNINFORMED FAN AND/OR THIS SITUATION RESOLVES ITSELF

He's right though. The AHL team has zero impact on the future of the franchise. Yes, it was nice they moved their AHL team close to the parent team, but why would it matter in the slightest whether the team moves? Are you saying that if they decide they can't make a go of it in Arizona with the Coyotes and are ready to sell it to Seattle/Portland/Quebec City/Kalamazoo that someone will say "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE AHL TEAM?!?" and they'll change their mind?

It just doesn't matter. The AHL team will just move if it's too far away from the parent in the years following the move of the NHL team. Nobody will bat an eye.

 

[Killion]

Nothing changes really...the tax payers continue to get screwed and the team under this ownership group continues to operate on a shoestring budget.

.... correct, to wander the desert's indefinitely...

Anthony LeBlanc's quest, this franchises manifest destiny...

 

[not a troll]

He's right though. The AHL team has zero impact on the future of the franchise. Yes, it was nice they moved their AHL team close to the parent team, but why would it matter in the slightest whether the team moves? Are you saying that if they decide they can't make a go of it in Arizona with the Coyotes and are ready to sell it to Seattle/Portland/Quebec City/Kalamazoo that someone will say "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE AHL TEAM?!?" and they'll change their mind?

It just doesn't matter. The AHL team will just move if it's too far away from the parent in the years following the move of the NHL team. Nobody will bat an eye.

If anything, the last couple years have shown how portable AHL teams are.

 

[GuelphStormer]

does tempe (?) have a say in the matter?

 

[cbcwpg]

He's right though. The AHL team has zero impact on the future of the franchise. Yes, it was nice they moved their AHL team close to the parent team, but why would it matter in the slightest whether the team moves? Are you saying that if they decide they can't make a go of it in Arizona with the Coyotes and are ready to sell it to Seattle/Portland/Quebec City/Kalamazoo that someone will say "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE AHL TEAM?!?" and they'll change their mind?

It just doesn't matter. The AHL team will just move if it's too far away from the parent in the years following the move of the NHL team. Nobody will bat an eye.

This... AHL teams change cities and affiliations like people change their socks. What happens to the Coyotes has no bearing on the AHL team or visa-versa.

 

[Llama19]

does tempe (?) have a say in the matter?

At this point...only the Senate Legislature members have a say today...

They are:

Tempe's Juan Mendez (D) - who voted No in committee
Mesa's Bob Worsley (R) - who voted Yes in committee

However, these are the House members...

Tempe's Isela Blanc (D)
Tempe's Athena Salman (D)
Mesa's Michelle Udall (R)
Mesa's Russell Bowers (R)

If, if this passes the Senate, then it goes to the House...

The Mayors of the City of Tempe (Mark Mitchell) and Mesa (John Giles) have not publicly made any statement, to my knowledge...

 

[Killion]

then why put in the effort into Tucson, then, I don't think anyone wants Glendale the way they've operated toward the Coyotes, much less putting the affiliate in jeopardy, maybe different if there weren't two ownership groups and the way Sarver and the Suns keep stalling the hockey team just as they've done since '03, hence why you'll never see the split TSRA property, leaving Phoenix metro probably, in hindsight, was the best option for the Coyotes, but who knew the ownership was that desperate to place a franchise into BK, MUCH LESS AS TO WHAT STARTED ALL OF THIS THEN.

First bolded; and most people cant understand why any municipality much less the State would want to have anything to do with IceArizona & the NHL after all thats transpired but ok...

Second Bolded; Im not following you here at all. The franchise left the then called AWA in downtown Phoenix for Glendale because they were on a quick slide to insolvency due to a lousy lease and a non-hockey-friendly building. Colangelo & Sarver are businessmen. Their running a business. Not in the business of cutting their own throats and giving up their own much needed & critical revenues to prop up an NHL franchise. Cant do it. Financial suicide.

Third Bolded; "who knew"?. The NHL should have known that that might be a distinct possibility and prepared for such, leaving gaping hole's in their Consent Form & other legal documents they had Moyes signing off on in the fall of 2008 when they advanced him funds which he claimed he desperately required in order to just meet payroll. Then... they cobble together a totally insulting lowball offer for the club from Reinsdorf which Moyes gets wind of & BAM, its off to court we go.

Hutch, Get off Tucson and the AHL.... It will have no bearing, zero, none, nada, zilch, nyet. If the team moved it will be moved regardless of the status of Tucson. The AHL franchise is merely an asset.

.... absolutely correct.

i WON'T UNTIL THE UNINFORMED FAN AND/OR THIS SITUATION RESOLVES ITSELF

... the fan/member/poster entirely informed HUTCH. But ok. I get it that you love the AHL and like to Champion that cause, indeed all minor-pro leagues and you have a pretty extensive & impressive knowledge of them but this is really putting the cart before the horse. The NHL, location of franchises, its not dictated to them by the AHL. For individual NHL owners, yes its a consideration, important aspect to player development etc but again, different strokes for different owners/teams. Some want them local, others, doesnt make sense.

He's right though. The AHL team has zero impact on the future of the franchise. Yes, it was nice they moved their AHL team close to the parent team, but why would it matter in the slightest whether the team moves? Are you saying that if they decide they can't make a go of it in Arizona with the Coyotes and are ready to sell it to Seattle/Portland/Quebec City/Kalamazoo that someone will say "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE AHL TEAM?!?" and they'll change their mind?

It just doesn't matter. The AHL team will just move if it's too far away from the parent in the years following the move of the NHL team. Nobody will bat an eye.

... exactly, completely irrelevant. the AHL franchise be it in Tuscon or Timbuktu not even a whisper of wind blowing into the NHL's sails as to determining direction, what course or tack they might or might not take with the Coyotes.

If anything, the last couple years have shown how portable AHL teams are.

Precisely. Yes, and HUTCH, Im afraid I cant possibly agree with your opinion that the placement & location of AHL teams is so significant to the NHL & its individual clubs as to dictate the placement & location of NHL franchises.... Quite frankly, its my opinion that ALL AHL teams should be located in New England, the Northeast including Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec & the Maritimes , US Mid-West, Oklahoma included and thats that but now were getting off-topic.... Bottom-line. If the Coyotes are sold in-market or sold off-market, IceArizona can retain the AHL team in Tucson, own & operate it there, sign an affiliation agreement with the new owners of the Coyotes, Las Vegas Knights, Quebec Nordiques or Seattle Pilots or whomever or they could move to wherever it makes the most sense or... sell the AHL franchise to the buyers of the Coyotes. Real simple. Yes about 17 NHL Clubs own their AHL Franchises but its not mandatory. Just depends on what business model they find makes the most sense for them.

 

[cbcwpg]

Anthony LeBlanc's quest, this franchises manifest destiny...

LeBlanc's current quest has always been about owning a professional team, but absolutely making sure the arena the team plays in is built on the dime of someone else.

This goes back to his plans to land a professional team in Thunder Bay.

https://www.tbnewswatch.com/local-sports/need-a-home-385600

"It is the most important aspect of any future plans we may have, be it the ECHL or any other league that we’ve investigated, it is an absolute requirement that a new facility is in place," said LeBlanc. LeBlanc said he plans to be involved in the arena discussion to help expedite the process, but reiterated Ice Edge likely won’t be a primary investor in a new facility in Thunder Bay. Instead, if a new centre is built, LeBlanc said they are more than willing to provide an anchor tenant in the form of an ECHL franchise.

Nothing really has changed with LeBlanc's quest, just the city he's trying to get an arena built in. But it is an interesting stance for someone whom once said the following when he had his hat in the political ring:

https://www.tbnewswatch.com/local-news/profile-leblanc-wants-business-style-accountability-388762

LeBlanc said his party wants to eliminate waste and end foolish spending. "Just doling money out left and right that’s not a way to stimulate an economy. There has to be a thoughtful approach to ensure the economy grows."