Phoenix CXXIII: Who Wants to Pay Our Bills?

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WildGopher

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Jun 13, 2012
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Yes, agreed. I'm skeptical, that the NHL would pull the plug this spring, very likely there for at least another year. Another 12-14mnths of nonsense, false hope. :(

Maybe this quote from Coyotes' spokesman Jim Norton hints at the team's intention to be around for another year, to continue fighting for a new arena, but then maybe having to give up if nothing develops:

" . . . we are keeping jobs (in Arizona),†Norton said. “You have a franchise that has one more year left on their lease and we don’t want them going anywhere but within Arizona.â€

That's posted Thursday in this article in the Glendale Star. http://www.glendalestar.com/news/article_3945f716-f847-11e6-ab29-430cff65914f.html

The article quotes Sen. Mendez asking some very pertinent questions, and Norton and the consultant trying their best to answer them, but not being very convincing.
They really have an uphill climb to convince someone to build this arena, but I don't sense they're ready to give up quite yet.
 

MNNumbers

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Nov 17, 2011
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^^^^^^
I agree with this conclusion. As much as I wish we could stop listening to these snake oil salesmen, I think we are in for another year of it yet. It's awful. Just live or die on your own merits, and quit trying to fleece the taxpayers.

But, waiting another year is quite prudent for the NHL, because, as I have said earlier, with the uncertainty in Seattle right now about what is going to happen with Key Arena, and that likely not being settled until summer at earliest, there is no way to relocate to Seattle this year. Portland is a long shot at best, because Allen is too prudent a businessman.

Which means that, if a relo happens this year, QC is only place to go, and NHL really really really does not want to move a western team to the ETZ.
 

Llama19

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Jan 19, 2013
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Outside GZ
...They really have an uphill climb to convince someone to build this arena, but I don't sense they're ready to give up quite yet.

Definition of IceArizona's insanity...say the same thing over and over again, and expecting people to believe it...

^^^^^^
I agree with this conclusion. As much as I wish we could stop listening to these snake oil salesmen, I think we are in for another year of it yet. It's awful. Just live or die on your own merits, and quit trying to fleece the taxpayers.

But, waiting another year is quite prudent for the NHL, because, as I have said earlier, with the uncertainty in Seattle right now about what is going to happen with Key Arena, and that likely not being settled until summer at earliest, there is no way to relocate to Seattle this year. Portland is a long shot at best, because Allen is too prudent a businessman.

Which means that, if a relo happens this year, QC is only place to go, and NHL really really really does not want to move a western team to the ETZ.

Yep...Waiting in Seattle...
 

blues10

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Dec 10, 2010
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They have only owned the team since 2013 and have not indicated any intention to sell the franchise. Expect Barroway and Leblanc to remain the majority owners of the franchise whether they stay in Arizona, or relocate to Portland or Seattle.

Since 2013 the deck chairs of the IA ownership team have been shuffled a few times, most notably majority owner Gosbee out and majority owner Barroway in. In a sense they have already changed ownership since 2013.

The Coyotes started with this in 2013.

The new Coyotes owners include finance executives Anthony LeBlanc and Daryl Jones. The pair were part of previous attempts to buy the team and LeBlanc could be the new Coyotes CEO. But the bulk of the RSE partners are from the energy sector.

RSE/Ice Arizona partners from the energy sector

George Gosbee, Chairman and CEO of AltaCorp Capital in Edmonton
Scott Saxberg: President and CEO of Calgary-based Crescent Point Energy
Craig Stewart: Executive chairman, RMP Energy Inc. in Calgary
W. David Duckett: President of Calgary-based Plains Midstream Canada
Gary J Drummond: Corporate director for Pine Cliff Energy Ltd. and Bonterra Energy Corp., attorney and Bahamas-based investor
Bill Dutton: Former chairman of Calgary-based oil and gas company Upton Resources, owner of Pheasant Glen Golf Resort near Vancouver
Avik Dey: President & CEO of Remvest Energy Partners LLC in Houston
Robert Gwin: CFO, Executive President of Anadarko Petroleum Corp. in Houston

We had the pronouncement that they had just purchased 1/30 on the NHL.

“Back then you were really on your own when you owned a team,” Gosbee said. “Now, we really bought one 30th of the NHL and we’re managing a team in Phoenix, so it’s a different concept now with regards to how the league works. I’m kind of bullish on the structure, how it works, and that was another reason why I wanted to get into it.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...ry-businessman-george-gosbee/article13786310/



Then Dey stepped down just a year in and was divested of his ownership stake.

Avik Dey never planned to live full-time in the Valley. Now that he’s moving, he admits he’s going to miss it.

The Coyotes co-owner and one of the team’s general partners will step away from the day-to-day operations of the team that he filled for the past year as the team’s Chief Financial Officer. Dey is moving to Toronto to join the Canadian Pension Plan Investment Board and lead its efforts in oil and gas private equity.

"I’ll still be a general partner and working with (president and CEO) Anthony (LeBlanc) in terms of the overall management of the team," Dey said by phone on Monday. "But we’ve got a senior management team in place now, and we’ve actually hit our plan on all the big-ticket items we needed to address like tickets and corporate sponsorships."

http://www.foxsports.com/arizona/st...epping-back-from-day-to-day-operations-080414


Then this happened.

George Gosbee, Anthony LeBlanc and their group of Canadian investors are losing control of the Arizona Coyotes because they cannot afford to keep up the payments on the NHL franchise’s enormous debt.

Gosbee and company can be seen as either plucky entrepreneurs who became victims of their own success or just the latest under-financed group of owners to see their house of cards collapse. In any event, with the proposed sale of a majority share of IceArizona, the Delaware company that owns the franchise, the Canadians will lose control of the team a little more than a year after buying it from the NHL.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...ntrol-so-coyotes-can-survive/article21450346/

Then we had this.

Six months after he became the majority owner of the Arizona Coyotes, Andrew Barroway will step into a lesser role with the club, multiple sources told FOX Sports Arizona.

The change is not expected to impact the hockey operations budget as the team approaches free agency.

Barroway is the Managing Partner of Merion Investment Management LP, an event-driven hedge fund that manages more than $1 billion. His addition to IceArizona helped the club eliminate its high-interest loan with Fortress Investment Group.



Barroway originally bought 51 percent of the Coyotes in a deal that was finalized on Dec. 31, 2014. His purchase was based on a $305 million equity valuation of the team.

http://www.foxsports.com/arizona/story/barroway-to-relinquish-role-as-coyotes-majority-owner-061515

Which led back to this.

In any event, a league source, who traded candor for anonymity, as well as the hockey team, have confirmed that Barroway has made full payment and owns 54% of the Coyotes and the enterprise value was indeed $305 million.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeoz...s-54-percent-of-arizona-coyotes/#554fecaf6529

And next ....Drummond has some control and has been identified as a majority owner by some media. Not sure if it is accurate or not.

A Q&A with Coyotes co-owner and President of Hockey Operations, Gary Drummond

http://arizonasports.com/story/6590...president-of-hockey-operations-gary-drummond/

Which brings us to this.

Owner, Chairman and Governor Andrew Barroway
Co-Owner, President, CEO & Alternate Governor Anthony LeBlanc
Co-Owner & Alternate Governor Gary J Drummond
Co-Owner & Alternate Governor George Gosbee
Co-Owner & Director W David Duckett
Co-Owner & Director W R Dutton
Co-Owner & Director Robert Gwin
Co-Owner & Director Scott Saxberg
Co-Owner & Director Craig Stewart

http://coyotes.ice.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=91033

But lets not forget this. It may not be listed on the team page but someone has been left out.

Daryl Jones
@HedgeyeDJ
DoR @hedgeye Co-owner @arizonacoyotes Boardmember

https://twitter.com/hedgeyedj?lang=en


Leblanc is the majority mouthpiece of the franchise but Drummond and Barroway are the majority owners. I would speculate that Leblanc has pulled more out of the franchise for salary than he initially invested.

I don't see IA retaining majority ownership of this franchise outside Arizona.
 

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
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I don't see IA retaining majority ownership of this franchise outside Arizona.

Not unless everyone completely loses their minds & they move to Saskatoon they wont be, no.... And thats the thing with all these
guys, very reminiscent of WHA ownership, Wild Bill Hunter, Benny The Loan Shark Hatskin.... only far less colorful, well meaning...
 

WildGopher

Registered User
Jun 13, 2012
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Since 2013 the deck chairs of the IA ownership team have been shuffled a few times, most notably majority owner Gosbee out and majority owner Barroway in. In a sense they have already changed ownership since 2013.

The Coyotes started with this in 2013.



We had the pronouncement that they had just purchased 1/30 on the NHL.



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...ry-businessman-george-gosbee/article13786310/



Then Dey stepped down just a year in and was divested of his ownership stake.



http://www.foxsports.com/arizona/st...epping-back-from-day-to-day-operations-080414


Then this happened.



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...ntrol-so-coyotes-can-survive/article21450346/

Then we had this.



http://www.foxsports.com/arizona/story/barroway-to-relinquish-role-as-coyotes-majority-owner-061515

Which led back to this.



https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeoz...s-54-percent-of-arizona-coyotes/#554fecaf6529

And next ....Drummond has some control and has been identified as a majority owner by some media. Not sure if it is accurate or not.



http://arizonasports.com/story/6590...president-of-hockey-operations-gary-drummond/

Which brings us to this.



http://coyotes.ice.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=91033

But lets not forget this. It may not be listed on the team page but someone has been left out.



https://twitter.com/hedgeyedj?lang=en


Leblanc is the majority mouthpiece of the franchise but Drummond and Barroway are the majority owners. I would speculate that Leblanc has pulled more out of the franchise for salary than he initially invested.

I don't see IA retaining majority ownership of this franchise outside Arizona.

Excellent research and summary. You have to come away from it thinking that if a string of executives from the energy industry (which has done quite well in recent years) have to get out because they can't afford the cash calls to service the Coyotes' enormous debt, then the current ownership group isn't going to be able to sustain this much longer either. LeBlanc himself alluded to "scary" annual financial losses.

Lots of surprises have happened with the team over the years, so making predictions is kind of like stepping out on a ledge, but I think they give it one more year to try to find a sucker, er . . . partner, to build them an arena, and then they'll have to give up. If LeBlanc and Co. really like the hockey industry, they have their AHL team to run and manage, and by selling for relocation, they can maybe get out from under that massive debt. I have to believe the league and players will eventually consent to move the team eventually, too. If the team can make a profit somewhere else, that profit gets counted in overall revenue that the players get to share. And eventually, the BOG is going to want to stop the bleeding of seeing millions of their dollars pouring into the Arizona franchise in the form of revenue sharing and league hockey development fund dollars. I just think all those parties will be patient and willing to wait for a miracle for one more year.
 

DowntownBooster

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Jun 21, 2011
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Not unless everyone completely loses their minds & they move to Saskatoon they wont be, no.... And thats the thing with all these
guys, very reminiscent of WHA ownership, Wild Bill Hunter, Benny The Loan Shark Hatskin.... only far less colorful, well meaning...

Ahh, the good old days.:)
 

madhi19

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Jun 2, 2012
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If they did that, they'd be kissing their $500M Expansion Fee Payday away, those funds instead having to go to satisfy the Leagues investments & costs, paying off Citi-Bank & so on. Just how much all of that might be at this time no idea but it could well be approaching $350M or more. That would take a pretty big bite out of Foley's $500M payment to the League, I dont think it would happen but your absolutely correct to bring it up as an option, consider everything.... As for the players, if they were to do that, Contract the franchise rather than sell it off-market, they'd then hold a Dispersal Draft likely in conjunction with the Amateur Draft.

This is a chess board where no big pieces can move without losing a lesser piece. You either sacrifice that piece or you lose a queen. The NHL spent way too much time, and effort on protecting a fool instead of the queen. They will have to sacrifice a better market to get out of that jam. Locally the team just not worth the debs accumulated, and the other 29 owners have no appetite to write the debs off. It either relocation, a big write off, or watch the fools eventually declare bankruptcy.
 

Llama19

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Jan 19, 2013
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Excellent research and summary. You have to come away from it thinking that if a string of executives from the energy industry (which has done quite well in recent years) have to get out because they can't afford the cash calls to service the Coyotes' enormous debt, then the current ownership group isn't going to be able to sustain this much longer either. LeBlanc himself alluded to "scary" annual financial losses.

Lots of surprises have happened with the team over the years, so making predictions is kind of like stepping out on a ledge, but I think they give it one more year to try to find a sucker, er . . . partner, to build them an arena, and then they'll have to give up. If LeBlanc and Co. really like the hockey industry, they have their AHL team to run and manage, and by selling for relocation, they can maybe get out from under that massive debt. I have to believe the league and players will eventually consent to move the team eventually, too. If the team can make a profit somewhere else, that profit gets counted in overall revenue that the players get to share. And eventually, the BOG is going to want to stop the bleeding of seeing millions of their dollars pouring into the Arizona franchise in the form of revenue sharing and league hockey development fund dollars. I just think all those parties will be patient and willing to wait for a miracle for one more year.

There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man...
It is a dimension as vast as the desert and as timeless as infinity...
It is where there is no middle ground between profit and loss...
It lies between the ownership's fears and in others lack of franchise history...
This is the dimension of gullibility...
It is an area which we call the...
th
 

WildGopher

Registered User
Jun 13, 2012
1,072
159
There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man...
It is a dimension as vast as the desert and as timeless as infinity...
It is where there is no middle ground between profit and loss...
It lies between the ownership's fears and in others lack of franchise history...
This is the dimension of gullibility...
It is an area which we call the...
th

Yeah, it seems like everyone but LeBlanc realizes we're in Twilight Zone territory here. I mean, the Senate is about to say no. Sarver has hinted at wanting to renovate Talking Stick, which is smart business because that arena structurally is a good candidate for a very good renovation, and because a reno with that limited floor space probably shuts out the Coyotes, who would just drain revenue from Sarver for decades to come.

So that's probably two strikes. And here's why I think the tribes in the end will say no, even though they probably start with an interest in generating construction jobs: Some cities and states get all gooey-eyed at the idea of bringing the "status" of major-league sports. That dream gets them all irrational about bottom-line business, about what will and won't work in the real world. So some of them end up making terrible business decisions, pouring tens or hundreds of millions of their taxpayers' dollars into black hole of red ink. It's kind of crazy by definition.

I don't think the tribes in general will think their status is linked to whether their area has a major league team or not. That leaves them to rationally analyze the pros and cons of an arena from a business development and jobs perspective. So I can understand their proposal to give land if IA will build an arena. But that doesn't work for IA. Not only does IA need someone to pay for half the construction costs, but they need someone to stake them to a chunk of their operating expenses. Well, the tribes want jobs. Since they can look at this more rationally than some cities and states, if what IA is willing to do isn't going to provide jobs, or alternatively, cost the tribe so many millions of dollars that they could create more of those jobs by investing elsewhere, that's what they're going to do.

So in the end, I don't think IA gets their arena built, and I think this ownership group is done with Glendale. That probably leaves the only "Twilight Zone"-type miracle that keeps the Yotes in Arizona the remote possibility that a new investor buys the team, comes to an accommodation with Glendale, and spends the necessary dollars to field a team and successful marketing effort. But after 8 years of no such owner emerging after bankruptcy, that's still in the Twilight Zone, and isn't likely to happen.

Conclusion: Probable relo in 2018, with thanks to the tribes and the Arizona Senate for infusing some common sense into this runaway notion that cities and states should spend almost unlimited dollars on pro-sports teams.
 

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
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This is a chess board where no big pieces can move without losing a lesser piece. You either sacrifice that piece or you lose a queen. The NHL spent way too much time, and effort on protecting a fool instead of the queen. They will have to sacrifice a better market to get out of that jam. Locally the team just not worth the debs accumulated, and the other 29 owners have no appetite to write the debs off. It either relocation, a big write off, or watch the fools eventually declare bankruptcy.

... yeah, Im with you mahdi, right up to the bolded... I dont believe they actually own the team (and even if they did after the Moyes debacle whereby the NHL argued he had no right to put the team into BK to begin with, thereafter the NHL wouldve really tightened the screws on their Consent Forms, any new owner signing away their right to declare BK writ large) & thus dont have the right to put it into BK.... Furthermore, I believe the Coyotes share of Broadcast & Central Rev's as well as their share of the LV Expansion fee going directly to the league. These guys on an allowance, short, tight financial leash. Bill Daly overseeing every aspect of the operation from afar.
 
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blues10

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Dec 10, 2010
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Yeah, it seems like everyone but LeBlanc realizes we're in Twilight Zone territory here. I mean, the Senate is about to say no. Sarver has hinted at wanting to renovate Talking Stick, which is smart business because that arena structurally is a good candidate for a very good renovation, and because a reno with that limited floor space probably shuts out the Coyotes, who would just drain revenue from Sarver for decades to come.

So that's probably two strikes. And here's why I think the tribes in the end will say no, even though they probably start with an interest in generating construction jobs: Some cities and states get all gooey-eyed at the idea of bringing the "status" of major-league sports. That dream gets them all irrational about bottom-line business, about what will and won't work in the real world. So some of them end up making terrible business decisions, pouring tens or hundreds of millions of their taxpayers' dollars into black hole of red ink. It's kind of crazy by definition.

I don't think the tribes in general will think their status is linked to whether their area has a major league team or not. That leaves them to rationally analyze the pros and cons of an arena from a business development and jobs perspective. So I can understand their proposal to give land if IA will build an arena. But that doesn't work for IA. Not only does IA need someone to pay for half the construction costs, but they need someone to stake them to a chunk of their operating expenses. Well, the tribes want jobs. Since they can look at this more rationally than some cities and states, if what IA is willing to do isn't going to provide jobs, or alternatively, cost the tribe so many millions of dollars that they could create more of those jobs by investing elsewhere, that's what they're going to do.

So in the end, I don't think IA gets their arena built, and I think this ownership group is done with Glendale. That probably leaves the only "Twilight Zone"-type miracle that keeps the Yotes in Arizona the remote possibility that a new investor buys the team, comes to an accommodation with Glendale, and spends the necessary dollars to field a team and successful marketing effort. But after 8 years of no such owner emerging after bankruptcy, that's still in the Twilight Zone, and isn't likely to happen.

Conclusion: Probable relo in 2018, with thanks to the tribes and the Arizona Senate for infusing some common sense into this runaway notion that cities and states should spend almost unlimited dollars on pro-sports teams.

That could be a solution. As long as the investor is willing to lose money. There is a reason that no one bought this team out of BK except for the NHL. There is also a reason that the NHL found it difficult in off loading the franchise.

Both Barroway and Gosbee seem well heeled enough to own and operate an NHL franchise. They just may not have the appetite for the losses this franchise is incurring. It is becoming quite evident that currently for NHL hockey to not hemorrage red in the desert that some type of subsidy is required. Previously it came in the form of insurance payments to the NHL and a generous AMF to IA. It appears that IA is now looking for a share of taxes and may also be fishing for an "Arena Maintenance Fee".


Barroway seemed to have money for an NHL franchise.

The 48-year-old Barroway has been a successful hedge fund manager as managing partner of Merion Investment Management LP, an event-driven hedge fund that manages more than $1 billion. He previously tried to buy the New Jersey Devils and New York Islanders.

https://www.nhl.com/news/barroway-v...ting-deal-for-majority-stake-in-team/c-746632

Gosbee had been looking to join the club.
Growing up in Calgary, George Gosbee had a dream.

“Every boy wants to play in the NHL,†he said. “Once you realize that’s not possible, you change your focus and you start to think about owning a team.â€

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...ry-businessman-george-gosbee/article13786310/

IF a new ownership group came in and operated out of Glendale I could see them having a relative level of success as long as they were always willing to lose some money. Problem is no one in their right mind is coming in and buying the franchise for $300 million in that location. It could be argued that the current value of the Coyotes in Arizona without a very generous AMF or tax revenue sharing is zero.
 

WildGopher

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Jun 13, 2012
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Definition of IceArizona's insanity...say the same thing over and over again, and expecting people to believe it...

But sometimes crazy like a fox. Have you noticed that among all of the rosy projections of development and jobs in LeBlanc's two proposals for new arenas (the ASU and the "location-agnostic" versions), he never once made a claim you might expect - that Arizona would benefit from the new taxes raised? I mean, if there's going to be all this new development "that wouldn't have occurred were it not for the Coyotes," as he phrased it, it would stand to reason AZ would collect some new net tax revenue, correct?

Well, he can't say that, and here's why:

If there's a Senate vote later in the week, it will be when the Senate is meeting as a "Committee of the Whole." They function like a committee so they can take amendments, if offered. I think at that level, passage only requires a majority of those voting. So let's say three of the Senators go to a Canucks game and get the mumps and have to be absent, the bill could hypothetically pass by a 14-13 vote.

Later (at least a day later, by Senate rules), there would be another vote, called Third Reading. This is the final vote and requires a majority of the full Senate, or 16 votes.

But there's a provision in AZ law that says if a bill would increase revenue to the state, it requires a 2/3rds vote, or 20 Senators out of the 30. This rule presumably exists to protect the taxpayer - if taxes or fees are going to be raised for the state's coffers, it makes it harder to pass, and thus, is protective of the taxpayer.

Now, taxes would be raised under SB1149 - the 2% additional sales tax. But the crafters of the bill have made sure it doesn't "increase the revenue to the state," at least on a net basis. Because 1/2 of that 2% sales tax increase is used to pay off the bonds the state would be putting up for $170 million in arena construction costs.

And what about the other 1/2 of the 2% sales tax? Well, IA conveniently collects that from the state to pay their own $170 million of the construction costs. So in writing the bill this way, IA graciously is preventing the state of AZ from incurring additional revenue . . . and by the way, requiring a 20-vote supermajority in the Senate that would make it much harder to pass!

So how can the state raise sales taxes by 2% and not increase net revenue to the state?? Give half of it away to IA, that's how! Just IA helping make this all a little easier on everybody!
 
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PCSPounder

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Apr 12, 2012
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...AND BRINGING THE AFFILIATE TO THE STATE ON TOP OF IT IN 15/16.

Let's dispel with the notion that Tucson represents any sort of grounding for the Coyotes.

There's a history there... one pro team lasted a year, another lasted a year and a half, another one folded the week of opening night. The University of Arizona, however, has a club team with a history of drawing, as well as UA basically dominating that city overall.

(Example of the latter... independent baseball team seeks to move into centrally located and much loved ballpark in Tucson to move out of the suburban location they had prior. UA decided they want to move into that ballpark over their small on-campus facility. You know who won that battle and who folded.)

I guarantee you there's contractual hedging between the Coyotes and TCC.

I am absolutely assured that the Roadrunners can leave at the drop of a hat. To do otherwise would be to stupidly ignore the past in the Tucson market.
 

Acesolid

The Illusive Bettman
Sep 21, 2010
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I think it's indeed quite possible that if the NHL keeps being willing to loan money to IA. The agony of the Yotes continues for yet another year.

Speaking of endless agony, let me continue the Countdown to the tenth anniversary of Coyotes Magathreads!

March 4 2007: Coyotes to lose 30 Million dollars!

Yes, in only one week, it will officially have been 10 years to the day since the first officially recognised Megathread immortalizing the Coyotes agony began!

So it's almost time to celebrate 10 years of yearly miracles off the ice prolonging the agony of the Yotes. To remember all the "band-aid" cash injections saving the Yotes at the last second. All those lost hours following Glendale City Council meetings where Gary Bettman shamelessly swindled the Glendale taxpayers for dozens and dozens of millions of taxpayer money time and time again.

And remember the "Hamilton" trial that almost brought the Coyotes to Ontario. As well as that time the Coyotes were saved thanks to a huge investment from "Fortress", a shady group mostly known from it's corrupt ties to failed 2008 Presidential candidate John Edwards, who's presidential campaign was being bankrolled under the table by Fortress while he was cheating on his dying wife with a crazy new-age satanist young women.

Truly, I would say the cast of characters we've seen in this saga over the last decade has been crazier then the WWE roster.

And I would not be surprised at this point if this saga never ended.

PS: From the thread 10 years ago:

So this has gone from 'that reporter is a liar and incompentent' and 'whiny elitist Canadian vultures' along with the implied 'none of you have any idea what you are talking about' to 'oh yeah well Winnipeg's a crappy market too...'

so i wonder who knows more about what's going on with the Coyotes?

The 3 different reporters and the CEO of the organization or the yokels who inhabit this message board?

To answer that ten year old question; I would say that right now in 2017, the "Yokels on this message board" are probably those who know this team the best. Believe it, or not!
 
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Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
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3,224
^^^ and the 20th Anniversary of the Phoenix Lights (or Lights over Phoenix) of March 13, 1997.... I dont know which of these events is the more inexplicable, stranger.... an absolutely massive, noiseless mat black delta winged "triangle" with its slow speed low altitude cruise across the Valley witnessed by 1000's before disappearing over Kingman in the blink of an eye or.... the NHL's handling of this file not only since 96/97 but most notably, since 2007.
 
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Peter Skudra

Nucks fan since '02
Nov 10, 2013
380
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Seattle with JNelson
Since 2013 the deck chairs of the IA ownership team have been shuffled a few times, most notably majority owner Gosbee out and majority owner Barroway in. In a sense they have already changed ownership since 2013.

The Coyotes started with this in 2013.



We had the pronouncement that they had just purchased 1/30 on the NHL.



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...ry-businessman-george-gosbee/article13786310/



Then Dey stepped down just a year in and was divested of his ownership stake.



http://www.foxsports.com/arizona/st...epping-back-from-day-to-day-operations-080414


Then this happened.



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...ntrol-so-coyotes-can-survive/article21450346/

Then we had this.



http://www.foxsports.com/arizona/story/barroway-to-relinquish-role-as-coyotes-majority-owner-061515

Which led back to this.



https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeoz...s-54-percent-of-arizona-coyotes/#554fecaf6529

And next ....Drummond has some control and has been identified as a majority owner by some media. Not sure if it is accurate or not.



http://arizonasports.com/story/6590...president-of-hockey-operations-gary-drummond/

Which brings us to this.



http://coyotes.ice.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=91033

But lets not forget this. It may not be listed on the team page but someone has been left out.



https://twitter.com/hedgeyedj?lang=en


Leblanc is the majority mouthpiece of the franchise but Drummond and Barroway are the majority owners. I would speculate that Leblanc has pulled more out of the franchise for salary than he initially invested.

I don't see IA retaining majority ownership of this franchise outside Arizona.

Props that was an fantastically researched reply. I didn't realize IA has been that messy.
 

madhi19

Just the tip!
Jun 2, 2012
4,408
258
Cold and Dark place!
twitter.com
... yeah, Im with you mahdi, right up to the bolded... I dont believe they actually own the team (and even if they did after the Moyes debacle whereby the NHL argued he had no right to put the team into BK to begin with, thereafter the NHL wouldve really tightened the screws on their Consent Forms, any new owner signing away their right to declare BK writ large) & thus dont have the right to put it into BK.... Furthermore, I believe the Coyotes share of Broadcast & Central Rev's as well as their share of the LV Expansion fee going directly to the league. These guys on an allowance, short, tight financial leash. Bill Daly overseeing every aspect of the operation from afar.

A civil contract is not a suicide pact except maybe a wedding contract. :) One of the big reason the NHL lawsuit against Moyes went nowhere. In fact the best guarantee against a rogue BK is the league owning almost all the debts.
 

wildcat48

Registered User
Jul 16, 2005
4,279
311
Portland, Maine
Since 2013 the deck chairs of the IA ownership team have been shuffled a few times, most notably majority owner Gosbee out and majority owner Barroway in. In a sense they have already changed ownership since 2013.

The Coyotes started with this in 2013.



We had the pronouncement that they had just purchased 1/30 on the NHL.



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...ry-businessman-george-gosbee/article13786310/



Then Dey stepped down just a year in and was divested of his ownership stake.



http://www.foxsports.com/arizona/st...epping-back-from-day-to-day-operations-080414


Then this happened.



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...ntrol-so-coyotes-can-survive/article21450346/

Then we had this.



http://www.foxsports.com/arizona/story/barroway-to-relinquish-role-as-coyotes-majority-owner-061515

Which led back to this.



https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeoz...s-54-percent-of-arizona-coyotes/#554fecaf6529

And next ....Drummond has some control and has been identified as a majority owner by some media. Not sure if it is accurate or not.



http://arizonasports.com/story/6590...president-of-hockey-operations-gary-drummond/

Which brings us to this.



http://coyotes.ice.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=91033

But lets not forget this. It may not be listed on the team page but someone has been left out.



https://twitter.com/hedgeyedj?lang=en


Leblanc is the majority mouthpiece of the franchise but Drummond and Barroway are the majority owners. I would speculate that Leblanc has pulled more out of the franchise for salary than he initially invested.

I don't see IA retaining majority ownership of this franchise outside Arizona.
So who owns the Yotes?
 

CHRDANHUTCH

Registered User
Mar 4, 2002
38,798
5,011
Auburn, Maine
Let's dispel with the notion that Tucson represents any sort of grounding for the Coyotes.

There's a history there... one pro team lasted a year, another lasted a year and a half, another one folded the week of opening night. The University of Arizona, however, has a club team with a history of drawing, as well as UA basically dominating that city overall.

(Example of the latter... independent baseball team seeks to move into centrally located and much loved ballpark in Tucson to move out of the suburban location they had prior. UA decided they want to move into that ballpark over their small on-campus facility. You know who won that battle and who folded.)

I guarantee you there's contractual hedging between the Coyotes and TCC.

I am absolutely assured that the Roadrunners can leave at the drop of a hat. To do otherwise would be to stupidly ignore the past in the Tucson market.

PCS:

The same ownership who is running Arizona, also owns Tucson, if you want a dual legal fight between IA/The NHL/and IA and the AHL, that's what will happen
 

cbcwpg

Registered User
May 18, 2010
20,470
21,522
Between the Pipes
http://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/arizona-news/238348259-story - Posted:Feb 27 2017 04:56AM MST

State Representative Anthony Kern has been a major opponent of the the bill. He and other local activists are fighting to keep the team where they currently are, adding that tax payers are still footing the bill for the arena, not to mention businesses around it will suffer if the Coyotes move and the arena competes with more venues for other shows.

Kern and his supporters will hold a news conference at 10:00 a.m. in the rose garden at the state capitol.
 

Llama19

Registered User
Jan 19, 2013
7,297
1,138
Outside GZ
http://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/arizona-news/238348259-story - Posted:Feb 27 2017 04:56AM MST

State Representative Anthony Kern has been a major opponent of the the bill. He and other local activists are fighting to keep the team where they currently are, adding that tax payers are still footing the bill for the arena, not to mention businesses around it will suffer if the Coyotes move and the arena competes with more venues for other shows.

Kern and his supporters will hold a news conference at 10:00 a.m. in the rose garden at the state capitol.

Official Press Release: http://www.azleg.gov/press/house/53LEG/1R/170224KERNMEDIAADVISORY.pdf
 

Whileee

Registered User
May 29, 2010
46,440
34,524
The Tribe is unlikely. They wanted IceArizona to be capable of funding it. They weren't going to bankroll a bunch of paleskin freeloaders. For as long as there seemed like potential smoke signals there, a few months ago info came out that quashed that. The Tribe aren't a bunch of rubes, at least not the one with land near Scottsdale. Unless there's another reservation somewhere which is more gullible?




You're assuming the NHL has shame. That said, the Coyotes are a special case... a basketcase, so it might not be held against them.

Why would a tribe finance an arena and then funnel all the income to a hockey team?

The problem for the Coyotes is not a lack of dirt in Arizona, it's owning a business that needs someone to build a $400m building for it and then provide ongoing subsidies for its operating losses. Only a government would be that fiscally irresponsible.
 
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