Phoenix CXXIII: Who Wants to Pay Our Bills?

[j1012]

Seattle's KJR950 radio interview with Craig Morgan.

Morgan believes Coyotes will deal with tribal reservation if state government bill fails.

My indications based on these threads, is that this will probably not happen, but I am just a sideline guy on the Coyotes situation


A quick trip down to Arizona where Craig Morgan of ArizonaSports.com is covering their on-going efforts to get a new building for the Coyotes.

https://www.iheart.com/show/139-Softy-Interviews/?episode_id=28007100

 

[Killion]

If it's up to a vote now, truly, anything can happen. Anything. Expect the unexpected.

... that would be the motto one should have adopted by now if following this kinda crazy Mork. Absolutely.

 

[Llama19]

Seattle's KJR950 radio interview with Craig Morgan.

Morgan believes Coyotes will deal with tribal reservation if state government bill fails.

My indications based on these threads, is that this will probably not happen, but I am just a sideline guy on the Coyotes situation


A quick trip down to Arizona where Craig Morgan of ArizonaSports.com is covering their on-going efforts to get a new building for the Coyotes.

https://www.iheart.com/show/139-Softy-Interviews/?episode_id=28007100

LeBlanc seems to have an issue as a 'serial dirtest' and should seek professional help as each location/partnership is decreasing in believability...

It appears that, one-by-one, each of these 'piles of dirt' is becoming just more dust in the wind...

 

[Fairview]

Seattle's KJR950 radio interview with Craig Morgan.

Morgan believes Coyotes will deal with tribal reservation if state government bill fails.

My indications based on these threads, is that this will probably not happen, but I am just a sideline guy on the Coyotes situation


A quick trip down to Arizona where Craig Morgan of ArizonaSports.com is covering their on-going efforts to get a new building for the Coyotes.

https://www.iheart.com/show/139-Softy-Interviews/?episode_id=28007100

And if the Tribes tell Tony to take a hike..then it is back to GRA. I can't wait to hear the spin coming from Coyote Morgan and Tony about how everything that was said about the west valley was just negotiation. We will be back to Tony saying that profitability at GRA is just 3 years away.

 

[blues10]

And if the Tribes tell Tony to take a hike..then it is back to GRA. I can't wait to hear the spin coming from Coyote Morgan and Tony about how everything that was said about the west valley was just negotiation. We will be back to Tony saying that profitability at GRA is just 3 years away.

I believe that at least one tribe has offered Tony a pile of dirt for free and all IA has to do is pay for and construct their own arena.

 

[Fairview]

I believe that at least one tribe has offered Tony a pile of dirt for free and all IA has to do is pay for and construct their own arena.

If IA pays 100% for their own facility then as owners of the building they can't expect to receive the arena management subsidy. If they are angling for around 24 million subsidy in any state supported building, where they contribute less than 50% of the cost..Can you imagine how much they would need to manage a facility that they paid for 100% ?

 

[Roadrage]

What if the bill passes and they manage to find a municipality willing to put up $55MM (either money or land or combo of both) but decides they don't want to own the new arena but rather let the Coyotes own it? They would prefer to just take money back in taxes or surcharges. Would the Coyotes/NHL go for this?

 

[blues10]

If IA pays 100% for their own facility then as owners of the building they can't expect to receive the arena management subsidy. If they are angling for around 24 million subsidy in any state supported building, where they contribute less than 50% of the cost..Can you imagine how much they would need to manage a facility that they paid for 100% ?

The numbers don't work.

I am only going off the report that "majority owner" Drummond" has a lot of resources" and "money is not an issue" and the team is going nowhere. Tribe at Talking Stick has offered the team free land. It is several weeks old but could be an indication of plan "C".

18:00 -20:46

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/winnipeg-1290/hustler-and-lawless-february-10-2017-1.669179

 

[blues10]

What if the bill passes and they manage to find a municipality willing to put up $55MM (either money or land or combo of both) but decides they don't want to own the new arena but rather let the Coyotes own it? They would prefer to just take money back in taxes or surcharges. Would the Coyotes/NHL go for this?

Can IA borrow money for their share of the arena construction without the 24 million guaranteed annual "Arena Maintenance Fee" from the municipality? I believe the answer is no.

 

[Fairview]

The numbers don't work.

I am only going off the report that "majority owner" Drummond" has a lot of resources" and "money is not an issue" and the team is going nowhere. Tribe at Talking Stick has offered the team free land. It is several weeks old but could be an indication of plan "C".

18:00 -20:46

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/winnipeg-1290/hustler-and-lawless-february-10-2017-1.669179

I remember that story. Maybe money isn't an issue for this ownership group, but if that is true then why does it seem that every move they make scream very low budget? They lost maybe $9 million net when Glendale cut their subsidy and their narrative went from possible profitability to losing scary amounts of cash. They claim they can't survive at GRA, yet they claim that money is not an issue and that they can come up with $400 million to build on tribal land. And then what? They are able to thrive without any subsidy? It does not add up.

The issue that I see is that any municipality or tribe that becomes partners with these guys is..based on their track record, things are very likely to come off the rails. When that happens, this ownership group will have no problem asking for more cash to help them out. If the host can't or won't step up with more cash, then we have seen what IA/NHL will do. Just take a look at Glendale for a refresher.

 

[blues10]

I remember that story. Maybe money isn't an issue for this ownership group, but if that is true then why does it seem that every move they make scream very low budget? They lost maybe $9 million net when Glendale cut their subsidy and their narrative went from possible profitability to losing scary amounts of cash. They claim they can't survive at GRA, yet they claim that money is not an issue and that they can come up with $400 million to build on tribal land. And then what? They are able to thrive without any subsidy? It does not add up.

The issue that I see is that any municipality or tribe that becomes partners with these guys is..based on their track record, things are very likely to come off the rails. When that happens, this ownership group will have no problem asking for more cash to help them out. If the host can't or won't step up with more cash, then we have seen what IA/NHL will do. Just take a look at Glendale for a refresher.

Things are likely to go off the rails the moment a municipality or tribe looks at their financials. I would question their ability to absorb losses from the time shovels are in the ground until opening puck drop in the new building.

Nothing adds up for this group. Leblanc has had quite the run as NHL fantasy owner. Lots of twists and turns ahead.

 

[Llama19]

Things are likely to go off the rails the moment a municipality or tribe looks at their financials. I would question their ability to absorb losses from the time shovels are in the ground until opening puck drop in the new building.

Nothing adds up for this group. Leblanc has had quite the run as NHL fantasy owner. Lots of twists and turns ahead.

Fantasy owner, indeed...

When LeBlanc was on a recent sports radio program, he was asked how are things and LeBlanc responded 'Living the Dream'...

Well...it seems that if LeBlanc has to really, really show their actual financials...that is when these groups will slap him with that cold fish of reality...

He, and the rest of this ownership group, will likely be facing the long and winding road that leads to selling this franchise...

 

[Ernie]

I'm not actually convinced their financials are that bad, at least not like they were 5 years ago.

They got a nice bump in revenue sharing in the new CBA, and get a good deal of cash from the league TV contracts. When I crunched the numbers in the past, these two things added $10-$15m to their bottom line. And they're due for a $17m expansion payment this year, and possibly another one in a couple of years.

Are they still losing $10m per year? Probably. But at least some of that has got to do with how bad the team is.

 

[Mightygoose]

Seattle's KJR950 radio interview with Craig Morgan.

Morgan believes Coyotes will deal with tribal reservation if state government bill fails.

My indications based on these threads, is that this will probably not happen, but I am just a sideline guy on the Coyotes situation


A quick trip down to Arizona where Craig Morgan of ArizonaSports.com is covering their on-going efforts to get a new building for the Coyotes.

https://www.iheart.com/show/139-Softy-Interviews/?episode_id=28007100

That's a reasonable opinion.

Morgan came out with an article last year mentioning how difficult it would be to get a deal done downtown Phoenix as the Suns would not he to inclined.

Naturally that would only leave a tribe left.

Saying that, the team has already stated many times public money is needed for any arena project so there wouldn't be anything with a tribe. One of them apparently offered land and the team would build their own.

If they can only come up with 170 million for their share of a building based on the Worsley bill, how on earth do they have enough to building and finance on their own?

 

[Llama19]

I'm not actually convinced their financials are that bad, at least not like they were 5 years ago.

They got a nice bump in revenue sharing in the new CBA, and get a good deal of cash from the league TV contracts. When I crunched the numbers in the past, these two things added $10-$15m to their bottom line. And they're due for a $17m expansion payment this year, and possibly another one in a couple of years.

Are they still losing $10m per year? Probably. But at least some of that has got to do with how bad the team is.

LeBlanc might be better off taking their expansion payment and parlaying it at the local tribe's casino,
because that is the only way this franchise could ever make a profit in this market...

 

[YoungGuns]

Question:

So Las Vegas is awarded expansion and begins playing next season. In the event a relocation occurs (of any team), how bad does the league look granting expansion/cashing in on $500 million and relocating a different franchise 1 or 2 seasons later??

 

[BattleBorn]

Question:

So Las Vegas is awarded expansion and begins playing next season. In the event a relocation occurs (of any team), how bad does the league look granting expansion/cashing in on $500 million and relocating a different franchise 1 or 2 seasons later??

It could look pretty cruddy. I don't think it will matter if they trash the community they're departing well enough, and you know they're fairly likely to do so on the way out the door.

 

[Mightygoose]

Question:

So Las Vegas is awarded expansion and begins playing next season. In the event a relocation occurs (of any team), how bad does the league look granting expansion/cashing in on $500 million and relocating a different franchise 1 or 2 seasons later??

The Minnesota North Stars relocated the the same year as the expansion teams in Anaheim and Florida teams started and right on the heels of Ottawa and Tampa Bay staring up. Those expansion teams were 50 million but was a record high at the time.

Plus in the mod 90s relocation 3 strait years before 4 expansion teams started up.

So it's par for the course

 

[cobra427]

The Minnesota North Stars relocated the the same year as the expansion teams in Anaheim and Florida teams started and right on the heels of Ottawa and Tampa Bay staring up. Those expansion teams were 50 million but was a record high at the time.

Plus in the mod 90s relocation 3 strait years before 4 expansion teams started up.

So it's par for the course

Huge difference today. Back then the NHL was trying to expand quickly and paying 50 mill versus a team changing cities was not much of a difference. Charging 500 mill today and another 500 mill in the next few years is a huge difference. The NHL is way more exclusive now and they won't screw up the next expansion fee by letting the Coyotes change cities. The Coyotes are staying in AZ, one way or the other and they'll play in Glendale, TSA, or a new arena downtown or on the reservation eventually.

 

[YoungGuns]

Huge difference today. Back then the NHL was trying to expand quickly and paying 50 mill versus a team changing cities was not much of a difference. Charging 500 mill today and another 500 mill in the next few years is a huge difference. The NHL is way more exclusive now and they won't screw up the next expansion fee by letting the Coyotes change cities. The Coyotes are staying in AZ, one way or the other and they'll play in Glendale, TSA, or a new arena downtown or on the reservation eventually.

No, if there is no place to play they will have to move. In that event, the league will just make sure the buyer pays around $500 mil by increasing the "relocation fee".

 

[Glacial]

Seattle's KJR950 radio interview with Craig Morgan.

Morgan believes Coyotes will deal with tribal reservation if state government bill fails.

My indications based on these threads, is that this will probably not happen, but I am just a sideline guy on the Coyotes situation


A quick trip down to Arizona where Craig Morgan of ArizonaSports.com is covering their on-going efforts to get a new building for the Coyotes.

https://www.iheart.com/show/139-Softy-Interviews/?episode_id=28007100

I believe that at least one tribe has offered Tony a pile of dirt for free and all IA has to do is pay for and construct their own arena.

The Tribe is unlikely. They wanted IceArizona to be capable of funding it. They weren't going to bankroll a bunch of paleskin freeloaders. For as long as there seemed like potential smoke signals there, a few months ago info came out that quashed that. The Tribe aren't a bunch of rubes, at least not the one with land near Scottsdale. Unless there's another reservation somewhere which is more gullible?

Question:

So Las Vegas is awarded expansion and begins playing next season. In the event a relocation occurs (of any team), how bad does the league look granting expansion/cashing in on $500 million and relocating a different franchise 1 or 2 seasons later??

You're assuming the NHL has shame. That said, the Coyotes are a special case... a basketcase, so it might not be held against them.

 

[Llama19]

No, if there is no place to play they will have to move. In that event, the league will just make sure the buyer pays around $500 mil by increasing the "relocation fee".

So...who pays the $310 million for the franchise and $190 for the 'relocation fee'...Allen or Hansen...

 

[Fairview]

So...who pays the $310 million for the franchise and $190 for the 'relocation fee'...Allen or Hansen...

Would $310 million even cover the debt that this ownership group and NHL has amassed over the years?

 

[aqib]

Fantasy owner, indeed...

When LeBlanc was on a recent sports radio program, he was asked how are things and LeBlanc responded 'Living the Dream'...

Well...it seems that if LeBlanc has to really, really show their actual financials...that is when these groups will slap him with that cold fish of reality...

He, and the rest of this ownership group, will likely be facing the long and winding road that leads to selling this franchise...

Being president of an NHL team without any of the qualifications or even a clue is a dream

 

[RogerRoger]

LeBlanc might be better off taking their expansion payment and parlaying it at the local tribe's casino,
because that is the only way this franchise could ever make a profit in this market...

If he's intelligent about it, it could work.
http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/08/07...mmed-the-massachusetts-lottery-for-8-million/