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Other Sports: Philadelphia Phillies: The Road To .500 (2023 Edition)

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Svechhammer said:
Turner should be leadoff, and he should be purposely trying to hit gappers to get on base for Schwarber and Harper. How this never settled into their roles this year is beyond me.

Assuming we bring back Hoskins next year, our lineup should go Turner-Schwarber-Hoskins-Harper-JT. You do that and you're going to prevent pitchers from intentionally walking Schwarber or Harper, which should assure us of giving our best guys a legitimate shot of dictating games. The last couple days they were pitching around them and hoping they chased, or at least put the thought in their minds they would be walked. Take that strategy away from the opponent.
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Turner seems like the obvious choice to lead off. A former batting champion with great speed and excellent power? Yes please.

Not sure about batting Schwarber 2nd though. I’d rather see him 4th or 5th, protecting the power guys.
 
FLYguy3911 said:
Why would you stack your two best lefty power bats? That's just making it easy on the opposing manager. In a universe where they have Soto sure, but that's the only thing the manger should try to avoid.

The most important thing a leadoff hitter can do is get on base. If that's not your #1 priority there is no discussion to be had. You are only guaranteed to lead off once in a game. Turner can still do his stuff in the two hole.
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Turner can do more than Schwarber in the leadoff spot, Schwarber can still do his stuff hitting cleanup.

Obviously we see this differently. No one will ever convince me that a guy who hits around .200 and lacks speed, no matter what his OBP is, should be hitting leadoff. Sorry.
 
I’ve never understood why Schwarber was leading off in the first place. I am probably higher on him than most, as long as he’s used correctly and not one of your best players; he’s an X factor of sorts.
 
Hollywood Cannon said:
Don’t let this all distract you from the fact that Craig Kimbrel is a real McAsshole.
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It all changed since that. People will talk about the offense going cold. Valid. But the offense can only put you ahead. You need the bullpen to keep you ahead. This is and has never been close to a WS bullpen.
 
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Jack Straw said:
Turner can do more than Schwarber in the leadoff spot, Schwarber can still do his stuff hitting cleanup.

Obviously we see this differently. No one will ever convince me that a guy who hits around .200 and lacks speed, no matter what his OBP is, should be hitting leadoff. Sorry.
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But Schwarber getting on base for the bottom of the order is not as good as in front of Turner, Harper, Bohm, Stott, JT....so no he's not quite as valuable hitting 4th or 5th.

I added this to my last post. You would have rather had Turner in that spot?

FLYguy3911 said:
And Schwarber was the tying run in the 9th. I hope you wouldn't have rather had Turner in that spot tonight.
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FLYguy3911 said:
But Schwarber getting on base for the bottom of the order is not as good as in front of Turner, Harper, Bohm, Stott, JT....

I added this to my last post. You would have rather had Turner in that spot?
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I’d have been fine with Turner in that spot, but that’s an absurd question and I assume you know why.

Btw, Ryan Howard’s career OBP was .343. Same as Schwarber’s this year and a a few points better than Schwarber’s career OBP. Should he have been hitting leadoff instead of Rollins?
 
Jack Straw said:
I’d have been fine with Turner in that spot, but that’s an absurd question and I assume you know why.
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Why is that absurd?

Jack Straw said:
Btw, Ryan Howard’s career OBP was .343. Same as Schwarbers this year and a a few points better than Schwarbers career OBP. Should he have been hitting leadoff instead of Rollins?
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Howard hit in an era that was much more hitter friendly. From the pitching down to the defense. Schwarber has a career walk rate of 14% (he also struck out at the same rate Schwarber does now, I can assure you that would be in the 30s in today's game). Howard only hit that mark in two seasons and he needed 35 intentional walks to do so. He was also not a disciplined hitter so no he should not have hit leadoff. Utley could have though. And Jimmy leading off was always a hotly contested topic and they did move him around from time to time because he was an inconsistent OBP guy. There also wasn't a DH so there was a bit more strategy in who hit in that spot.

Batting Schwarber lower in the lineup, behind the OBP guys, only puts more pressure on him to hit a single. It doesn't make sense.

And they did try Turner in the lead off spot to start the year and it failed miserably.
 
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They really need more guys who can walk at a higher clip. The lineup skews heavily toward contact and that's far too unreliable. Harper, Schwarber, and maybe Marsh are notably above average at drawing walks. Stott might have plus plate discipline, as shown in the minors, but that hasn't translated yet.
 
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wankstifier said:
They really need more guys who can walk at a higher clip. The lineup skews heavily toward contact and that's far too unreliable. Harper, Schwarber, and maybe Marsh are notably above average at drawing walks. Stott might have plus plate discipline, as shown in the minors, but that hasn't translated yet.
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Hit for contact? Nick and JT dont seem that way. Maybe Bohm does. Stott does have too good of an approach not to walk more in the future. It will come. Nick has to go though.
 
FLYguy3911 said:
Why is that absurd?


Howard hit in an era that was much more hitter friendly. From the pitching down to the defense. Schwarber has a career walk rate of 14% (he also struck out at the same rate Schwarber does now, I can assure you that would be in the 30s in today's game). Howard only hit that mark in two seasons and he needed 35 intentional walks to do so. He was also not a disciplined hitter so no he should not have hit leadoff. Utley could have though. And Jimmy leading off was always a hotly contested topic and they did move him around from time to time because he was an inconsistent OBP guy. There also wasn't a DH so there was a bit more strategy in who hit in that spot.

Batting Schwarber lower in the lineup, behind the OBP guys, only puts more pressure on him to hit a single. It doesn't make sense.

And they did try Turner in the lead off spot to start the year and it failed miserably.
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The question is absurd because you’re picking one specific situation, that didn’t even occur. But ok, my answer is simple; Trea Turner is in my opinion a better hitter than Schwarber, by a considerable margin, and I would rather have him come to the plate in pretty much any situation.

Let’s just agree to disagree.
 
Halladay said:
Hit for contact? Nick and JT dont seem that way. Maybe Bohm does. Stott does have too good of an approach not to walk more in the future. It will come. Nick has to go though.
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I'm not sure what the average walk rate is. But this seems a bit problematic.

EDIT: Rojas is at 3%, btw. So 2/3 of the lineup
 
Svechhammer said:
Our hitting coaches are pretty terrible, thanks for confirming
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Not sure how this was your conclusion. Most of those guys aren't going to magically start walking more at this point in their careers.

I'd like to see Stott's plate discipline develop more, but that might be the only guy with something to work with.
 
wankstifier said:
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I'm not sure what the average walk rate is. But this seems a bit problematic.

EDIT: Rojas is at 3%, btw. So 2/3 of the lineup
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His walk rate in nearly 300 plate appearances since the all star break is 7.4%. MLB average this year was 8.6% Not great but higher than anyone on this list. Nick is hapless, JT is a 32 year old catcher. Cant expect much more. I still have optimism for Johan, at the very least let him platoon with someone.
 
Halladay said:
His walk rate in nearly 300 plate appearances since the all star break is 7.4%. MLB average this year was 8.6% Not great but higher than anyone on this list. Nick is hapless, JT is a 32 year old catcher. Cant expect much more. I still have optimism for Johan, at the very least let him platoon with someone.
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I'm not really worried about Rojas since he's one of the best fielders in the game. I'm more concerned about 3B and RF. Need to have better hitting in those slots, especially if the defense is weak
 
Rojas is so young there’s no real stance to take. But he was so overmatched it wasn’t funny. His BABIP + lack of hard contact was scary and due for regression. His stats were a parsec away from sustainable, if we’re pointing to his batting average. Combine all that with postseason pitching……voila. His defense means he will get opportunity.

Marsh’s walk rate kind of came out of nowhere this year as a pro. It was fine in the minors. But that’s a key storyline if you’re talking higher OBP higher in the order. He definitely didn’t have the rope Stott had this year. Probably split related. But should he have? Good case.

Also, trade for Juan Soto, send Castellanos to the Mariana Trench, and I don’t know what to say about Bohm except “RBI Guy” is a brain dead narrative in the year 2023. He’s no top-middle hitter. This team just hungers for a reliable righty. Is it possible they re-sign Hoskins for a year and move Bryce back to OF?
 
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wankstifier said:
I'm not really worried about Rojas since he's one of the best fielders in the game. I'm more concerned about 3B and RF. Need to have better hitting in those slots, especially if the defense is weak
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I’d imagine Harper to RF if Hoskins is back, which I now hope for. Phillies haven’t had a great hitting 3B since Rolen. I think Bohm is a better hitter than Franco was. Bohm is just kind of stuck in no man’s land where his offense doesnt jive with his defense.
 
The upsetting thing is that got completely and utterly dominated the past 5 games.

Nothing to hang your hat on. Completely outclassed. Every aspect of the game.

The best thing about these past few days has been the score because the series wasn’t even particularly close after game 2.
 
Btw. Stott's batting avg dropped below 0.29 in late August and September, when he went bit cold. But his approach improved a lot compared to previous years. Most of 2023 he was around 0.30 or above. He does not get striked out often (below league avg) and through season most of his PAs he was really battling, tiring opposing pitchers and being competitive.
He was 2nd on the team in pitches seen per PA behind Schwarber and in top 10 in NL.
I can see him as leadoff in the future, he was also team leader in stolen bases. I think he would suite there more than TT.
 
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This series highlighted they need a better bench, particularly a left handed bat. Dont think they would ever do this but if they could get rid of Nick, they should play Trea in left field some games and play Sosa at short stop. Particularly against lefties if they arent going to left Marsh play.
 
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I don't love Thompson as manager but he isn't going anywhere. this team needs more tablesetters. I don' think they can bring Hoskins back without moving on from someone like schwarber or Castellanos.
 
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