OT: Philadelphia Eagles (NFL): When You're Up, It's Never As Good As It Seems, And When You're Down, You Never Think You'll Be Up Again

[Hollywood Cannon]

A quick survey for everyone. Ignoring injury issues and actual eligibility for an extension, which of these QBs would you give starter's money long-term:

A) Jalen Hurts
B) Justin Herbert
C) Tua Tagovailoa
D) Geno Smith
E) Trevor Lawrence
F) Lamar Jackson

No answers will be mocked or responded to at all. I just want to see something.

Team situation dependent or no?

I also understand that that isn't exactly a simple yes or no question that I am asking.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Team situation dependent or no?

I also understand that that isn't exactly a simple yes or no question that I am asking.

No. Just QB play. Same justification for ignoring injuries. The idea is to distill it down to on-field evaluations.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

No. Just QB play. Same justification for ignoring injuries. The idea is to distill it down to on-field evaluations.

Well that is not the same answer as you had four seconds ago...

A) Jalen Hurts - at this very moment, no.
B) Justin Herbert - I abstain
C) Tua Tagovailoa - No, my dog could throw to Waddle and Hill in a McDaniel offense so his "bump" is hollow, IMO. I will use that to skirt the "not being team situation dependent."
D) Geno Smith - I would say no but he has balled out this year but single year flash in the pans aren't for me.
E) Trevor Lawrence - yes, flashes of what he can be and has the pedigree. I also can't separate the situation, sorry not sorry.
F) Lamar Jackson - yes, but slightly begrudgingly

I was quite tempted to say no to all of the ones that I answered because I like chaos and only believe in the cream of the crop but I also know the world doesn't work like that. I also badly want to see a team try the "dump a QB when it's time for a new contract" approach that they long talked about the Rams doing with Goff.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I was quite tempted to say no to all of the ones that I answered because I like chaos and only believe in the cream of the crop but I also know the world doesn't work like that. I also badly want to see a team try the "dump a QB when it's time for a new contract" approach that they long talked about the Rams doing with Goff.

What I'm slowly understanding is that people mostly see one year of success as more of a limiting factor than how success is attained. That's not a right or wrong issue, we're just talking where in the hierarchy you place those factors.

I would extend only two of those guys today and it required no thought. My bar is higher, which is what I mostly wanted to see because it means I don't have to waste any more words on Hurts when I'm having a different discussion.

Although I must admit that given the ignoring of injuries in the hypothetical, I find some combinations of answers fascinating. Especially Tua combinations. I really wanted to put Cousins in there too, but I decided to be nice. He's undeniably productive, age issues aside.

 

[Chinatown88]

What I'm slowly understanding is that people mostly see one year of success as more of a limiting factor than how success is attained. That's not a right or wrong issue, we're just talking where in the hierarchy you place those factors.

I would extend only two of those guys and it required no thought. My bar is higher, which is what I mostly wanted to see because it means I don't have to waste any more words on Hurts when I'm having a different discussion.

Although I must admit that given the ignoring of injuries in the hypothetical, I find some combinations of answers fascinating. Especially Tua combinations.

I mean I interpreted the exercise as a simple yes or no, not some theorycrafting and pontificating. My initial thoughts would be a giant soliloquy of every guy with lots of back and forth for a majority of them outside of Herbert and Jackson. But I kept it simple.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

What I'm slowly understanding is that people mostly see one year of success as more of a limiting factor than how success is attained. That's not a right or wrong issue, we're just talking where in the hierarchy you place those factors.

I would extend only two of those guys today and it required no thought. My bar is higher, which is what I mostly wanted to see because it means I don't have to waste any more words on Hurts when I'm having a different discussion.

Although I must admit that given the ignoring of injuries in the hypothetical, I find some combinations of answers fascinating. Especially Tua combinations.

It's Lamar and Justin, isn't it? You're much higher on Lamar than I am, IIRC.

I had a long argument with my FIL on Thanksgiving about Hurts which eventually evolved into a Tua conversation (He's a Bama guy because my SIL went there). They have a remarkable similarity between the two this year with personnel that wasn't there before.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I mean I interpreted the exercise as a simple yes or no, not some theorycrafting and pontificating. My initial thoughts would be a giant soliloquy of every guy with lots of back and forth for a majority of them outside of Herbert and Jackson. But I kept it simple.

Of course. I chose names that tried to simplify things for you. I went Lawrence and not Fields because one was the consensus best QB prospect since X. If you're not comfortable projecting him forward for growth, you won't be comfortable doing it for Fields/Jones/whoever else.

Pleasantly surprised with how many people mentioned how well Geno's played though! What a story.

 

[Chinatown88]

Of course. I chose names that tried to simplify things for you. I went Lawrence and not Fields because one was the consensus best QB prospect since X. If you're not comfortable projecting him forward for growth, you won't be comfortable doing it for Fields/Jones/whoever else.

Pleasantly surprised with how many people mentioned how well Geno's played though! What a story.

I was a huge Geno fan coming out of West Virginia. I just can't justify the big QB bucks for a 32 year old with less than a year of actual quality play.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

It's Lamar and Justin, isn't it? You're much higher on Lamar than I am, IIRC.

I had a long argument with my FIL on Thanksgiving about Hurts which eventually evolved into a Tua conversation (He's a Bama guy because my SIL went there). They have a remarkable similarity between the two this year with personnel that wasn't there before.

You know I'm not a Tua guy. But he's been the most productive QB in football. Yes, even more than Mahomes. That's what makes it an interesting discussion to me because he's the best crossroads between individual play and scheme/WR play we've had in quite some time. You can at least understand where everyone is coming from and it doesn't feel like bad faith.

The sane version of the Hurts discussion basically comes down to how good is good enough and also the Eagles have won X games. Kinda boring.

 

[Beef Invictus]

A quick survey for everyone. Ignoring injury issues and actual eligibility for an extension, which of these QBs would you give starter's money long-term:

A) Jalen Hurts
B) Justin Herbert
C) Tua Tagovailoa
D) Geno Smith
E) Trevor Lawrence
F) Lamar Jackson

No answers will be mocked or responded to at all. I just want to see something.

G) Tyrod Taylor

 

[Beef Invictus]

You know I'm not a Tua guy. But he's been the most productive QB in football. Yes, even more than Mahomes. That's what makes it an interesting discussion to me because he's the best crossroads between individual play and scheme/WR play we've had in quite some time. You can at least understand where everyone is coming from and it doesn't feel like bad faith.

The sane version of the Hurts discussion basically comes down to how good is good enough and also the Eagles have won X games. Kinda boring.

Tua can throw the softest, feeblest pass the league has ever seen and somehow drop it through a window the exact size of the ball.

I cannot give him the money though because once he finishes signing the contract his hand will fall off.

 

[JoemAvs]

A quick survey for everyone. Ignoring injury issues and actual eligibility for an extension, which of these QBs would you give starter's money long-term:

A) Jalen Hurts
B) Justin Herbert
C) Tua Tagovailoa
D) Geno Smith
E) Trevor Lawrence
F) Lamar Jackson

No answers will be mocked or responded to at all. I just want to see something.

You pay all of them aside from Geno.
Now there is a limit to what is reasonable (and considering that Lamar still hasn't gotten it done while representing himself, odds are he is asking for something the Ravens really don't consider reasonable) but if its remotely in the realm of market value, you have to do it.

The cap is only going up and you live and die by your QB.

Now there are caveats aside from money. Tuas injuries are scary.
And if you fall ass backwards into a top2 pick this year, you probably will have to have some conversations (and probably ultimately end up trading the pick instead of Hurts (or Lawrence if the Jags pick really high)) about what you could get for your current starter but still.

Not having a QB is just too painful. And most of these guys (aside from Geno) are a better bet than any realistic alternative that will come your way over the next 3-5 years.
Getting out of an ugly QB contract that misfired is far less painful and does not kill your team for as long as letting one of the above guys (aside from Geno) walk (see: Carson Wentz deal). Thats obviously assuming that a certain DeShaun Watson contract does not become the norm.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

What I'm slowly understanding is that people mostly see one year of success as more of a limiting factor than how success is attained. That's not a right or wrong issue, we're just talking where in the hierarchy you place those factors.

I would extend only two of those guys today and it required no thought. My bar is higher, which is what I mostly wanted to see because it means I don't have to waste any more words on Hurts when I'm having a different discussion.

Although I must admit that given the ignoring of injuries in the hypothetical, I find some combinations of answers fascinating. Especially Tua combinations. I really wanted to put Cousins in there too, but I decided to be nice. He's undeniably productive, age issues aside.

Yeah it was difficult to answer without being able to fully factor things in. You've seen me post before that I don't really want to pay almost any QB major money because I think ti cripples your team. But it's all relative and based on that list, I can see why *a* team would give many of them starter money...it's tough!

 

[ajgoal]

Ray Didinger special on FS1 at the bar.

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

Delete

 

[trostol]

ahh..good old AB throwing shoes at people

Arrest warrant issued in Tampa for Antonio Brown

An arrest warrant has been issued in Tampa, Florida, for Antonio Brown on a battery charge stemming from an incident on Nov. 28.

www.espn.com

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

Delete

 

[trostol]

WTF was that dance lol

 

[landsbergfan]

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

A quick survey for everyone. Ignoring injury issues and actual eligibility for an extension, which of these QBs would you give starter's money long-term:

A) Jalen Hurts
B) Justin Herbert
C) Tua Tagovailoa
D) Geno Smith
E) Trevor Lawrence
F) Lamar Jackson

No answers will be mocked or responded to at all. I just want to see something.

I would definitely give it to Justin and Trevor. I would probably give it to Tua and Jalen, because they seem to be in offenses which know how to use them. I definitely wouldn't give Geno a long-term extension, but at the same time I don't know if I would snag a QB in the draft if I were Seattle. I haven't paid that much attention to him, though. I'm one of those who is wary of one-year samples, even though I said the above about Tua and Jalen.

Lamarr is the one that f***s with my head. I just don't have any idea how to evaluate him (in the sense that I evaluate anyone, i.e. with my eyes and what I hear from "experts"). He has a wild set of impressive tools, but how is that toolbox? It just seems like he makes a lot of boneheaded mistakes. I think his value probably lies in things that I don't understand.

No. Just QB play. Same justification for ignoring injuries. The idea is to distill it down to on-field evaluations.

I clearly don't know how to do that lolz

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I would definitely give it to Justin and Trevor. I would probably give it to Tua and Jalen, because they seem to be in offenses which know how to use them. I definitely wouldn't give Geno a long-term extension, but at the same time I don't know if I would snag a QB in the draft if I were Seattle. I haven't paid that much attention to him, though. I'm one of those who is wary of one-year samples, even though I said the above about Tua and Jalen.

Lamarr is the one that f***s with my head. I just don't have any idea how to evaluate him (in the sense that I evaluate anyone, i.e. with my eyes and what I hear from "experts"). He has a wild set of impressive tools, but how is that toolbox? It just seems like he makes a lot of boneheaded mistakes. I think his value probably lies in things that I don't understand.

I think a lot of Lamar's value is in things nobody understands fully. If we ignore the people who thinks he can't go through progressions for some strange reason, there's a super interesting conversation to be had.

Does he warp a defense just as much as a DeSean Jackson? More? Less? Can we ever quantify it in a way that makes sense or does it just vary too much depending on the opposing DC?

That's the fun stuff to me.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

How hard is it to just send a text, instead of tweeting that someone was struck by f***ing lightning.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

So this is the weirdest marketing campaign I’ve ever seen if that’s what they’re going with. PointsBet released live betting called “Lightning Bets” a couple of months ago.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Def feels like a marketing stunt.