OT: Philadelphia Eagles (NFL): When You're Up, It's Never As Good As It Seems, And When You're Down, You Never Think You'll Be Up Again

[Hollywood Cannon]

Def feels like a marketing stunt.

It is. It does absolutely nothing for me personally when it comes to PointsBet. The story is about Drew Brees, the general public will see the headline and not give a shit about PointsBet.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

The only effect it had on me was having it be so fake I didn't get the joy of thinking Drew Brees was electrocuted.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

The only effect it had on me was having it be so fake I didn't get the joy of thinking Drew Brees was electrocuted.

What if it had given him super mole powers?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

They’re f***ing with Rovell over it.

 

[Cody Webster]

They’re f***ing with Rovell over it.

Lol, this guy is such a loser

 

[WIP CALLER]

A quick survey for everyone. Ignoring injury issues and actual eligibility for an extension, which of these QBs would you give starter's money long-term:

A) Jalen Hurts
B) Justin Herbert
C) Tua Tagovailoa
D) Geno Smith
E) Trevor Lawrence
F) Lamar Jackson

No answers will be mocked or responded to at all. I just want to see something.

A. Yes. though I want to see him carry his regular season success into the playoffs. If he has another subpar playoff performance where a team just completely shuts him down by daring him to beat them with his arm like the Bucs did last year then it would be cause for concern. I will say of all my "yes" to these players, he has most potential to end up as a dud but his continued improvement as a passer each year makes his ceiling tantalizing. Would be awful to not resign him and draft a QB that doesn't end up being nearly as good.

B. Yes - of this list, I think he'd be the "safest" extension meaning I think he has the highest floor and lowest risk of falling apart after an extension but still not sure about the ceiling. Is he a Kirk Cousins(top 10 QB that churns out quality stats season after season) or a Peyton Manning/Aaron Rodgers that will have multiple MVP type seasons? Not sure if I'm sold he ever hits the MVP range but the potential is there.

C. No - I think he's largely a product of the scheme and weapons he has. Also, like Hurts I want to see how he performs come playoff time.

D. No - Great story and he's playing unreal this year but I think it'd be foolish to give him franchise money after a career season at age 32. It's possible he's an extreme outlier but more likely he comes back down to earth in the coming years.

E. Yes - Urban really messed up his development in year 1 but there's been enough in year 2 that you can see potential greatness there. Also, like Herbert I think he's a relatively safe floor extension but still not sure about the ceiling.

F. No - He just has never shown he's able to win in the playoffs with his game. Now with that said, he's had some incredible games where he deserved to win based on his play but just didn't get the W but I also don't believe he will age gracefully. Once the athleticism starts trending downhill, I could see him struggling like Russ.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Tbf the emergency press conference dig was pretty good for someone as uncreative as Rovell.

 

[Cody Webster]

Tbf the emergency press conference dig was pretty good for someone as uncreative as Rovell.

I find it funny the guy doesn't even look at the camera while doing the video. He looks at the screen with his wrinkle unibrow....such a loser

 

[Jtown]

A quick survey for everyone. Ignoring injury issues and actual eligibility for an extension, which of these QBs would you give starter's money long-term:

A) Jalen Hurts
B) Justin Herbert
C) Tua Tagovailoa
D) Geno Smith
E) Trevor Lawrence
F) Lamar Jackson

No answers will be mocked or responded to at all. I just want to see something.

every one .

 

[Jtown]

You know I'm not a Tua guy. But he's been the most productive QB in football. Yes, even more than Mahomes. That's what makes it an interesting discussion to me because he's the best crossroads between individual play and scheme/WR play we've had in quite some time. You can at least understand where everyone is coming from and it doesn't feel like bad faith.

The sane version of the Hurts discussion basically comes down to how good is good enough and also the Eagles have won X games. Kinda boring.

what possibly could he be doing better.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I think a lot of Lamar's value is in things nobody understands fully. If we ignore the people who thinks he can't go through progressions for some strange reason, there's a super interesting conversation to be had.

Does he warp a defense just as much as a DeSean Jackson? More? Less? Can we ever quantify it in a way that makes sense or does it just vary too much depending on the opposing DC?

That's the fun stuff to me.

What if Lamar had more than one receiver?

 

[Jtown]

@Beef Invictus
@JojoTheWhale
@Hollywood Cannon

i asked a few of you before the season. and got no replies. SO i will ask you again. Clearly define the parameters for which you think a qb is worthy of an extension. Lets make this more quantitative than qualitative.

 

[Beef Invictus]

@Beef Invictus
@JojoTheWhale
@Hollywood Cannon

i asked a few of you before the season. and got no replies. SO i will ask you again. Clearly define the parameters for which you think a qb is worthy of an extension. Lets make this more quantitative than qualitative.

Doing it for more than a year is a start. Doing it for more than a year, and through a range of player skillsets coming and going as schemes shift, to show that it isn't just a result of great coaching that knows what they have and how to use it. It still looks like there's a lot of good coaching decisions behind Jalen's success.

If I am Philly, I am delighted to have another year to figure this out. If I am Baltimore, I'm probably letting Lamarvelous go.

I don't like committing hard on any of this because I'm about equally sure I am wrong in this approach that I am at being right. If a player being successful is more on wise management than on the player's brilliance, is it better to trust the management that can get that right, or invest heavily in getting it right? I don't know, but lately I'm leaning towards the former. As I mentioned, I don't want to be the person making these decisions for real.

I do not think there are many QBs worth the money they get paid, and when you're dropping that level of cap hit into a player that inefficiency is hard to work around. I am unconvinced Hurts is that level of player. I am unconvinced most QBs are.

 

[Jtown]

Doing it for more than a year is a start. Doing it for more than a year, and through a range of player skillsets coming and going as schemes shift, to show that it isn't just a result of great coaching that knows what they have and how to use it. It still looks like there's a lot of good coaching decisions behind Jalen's success.

If I am Philly, I am delighted to have another year to figure this out. If I am Baltimore, I'm probably letting Lamarvelous go.

I don't like committing hard on any of this because I'm about equally sure I am wrong in this approach that I am at being right. If a player being successful is more on wise management than on the player's brilliance, is it better to trust the management that can get that right, or invest heavily in getting it right? I don't know, but lately I'm leaning towards the former. As I mentioned, I don't want to be the person making these decisions for real.

I do not think there are many QBs worth the money they get paid, and when you're dropping that level of cap hit into a player that inefficiency is hard to work around. I am unconvinced Hurts is that level of player. I am unconvinced most QBs are.

i appreciate the reply. I would like to keep this as quantitative as possible because any thing else will just be a subjective opinion that will be difficult to understand. For instance, this is Jalen's 2nd year with great success. He has only been a starter for 2 years. He is essentially 2 for 2

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

i appreciate the reply. I would like to keep this as quantitative as possible because any thing else will just be a subjective opinion that will be difficult to understand. For instance, this is Jalen's 2nd year with great success. He has only been a starter for 2 years. He is essentially 2 for 2

I am not sure what your definition for great success is but he himself was not great last year.

 

[Beef Invictus]

i appreciate the reply. I would like to keep this as quantitative as possible because any thing else will just be a subjective opinion that will be difficult to understand. For instance, this is Jalen's 2nd year with great success. He has only been a starter for 2 years. He is essentially 2 for 2

This year has been great. Last year, nah.

There is no quantitative answer. There is no specific scientific formula.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

@Beef Invictus
@JojoTheWhale
@Hollywood Cannon

i asked a few of you before the season. and got no replies. SO i will ask you again. Clearly define the parameters for which you think a qb is worthy of an extension. Lets make this more quantitative than qualitative.

To be clear, I'm assuming we mean high quality starter money and with appropriate guarantees. Think Kyler Murray's deal.

A reasonable path to being a T1 QB. Or if you think Mahomes is his own tier, T2. I think it's much easier to get a reasonable starter than it was 5-10 years ago. I do recognize that the risk involved is much harder to accept when you have no skin in the game.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything in their evaluations. Reasonable people will have very different guys up that high. If you prefer pure production, you should have Tua higher than I might for example.

 

[Jtown]

To be clear, I'm assuming we mean high quality starter money and with appropriate guarantees. Think Kyler Murray's deal.

A reasonable path to being a T1 QB. Or if you think Mahomes is his own tier, T2. I think it's much easier to get a reasonable starter than it was 5-10 years ago. I do recognize that the risk involved is much harder to accept when you have no skin in the game.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything in their evaluations. Reasonable people will have very different guys up that high. If you prefer pure production, you should have Tua higher than I might for example.

what seperates a tier 1 qb from a tier 2 qb?

 

[Jtown]

This year has been great. Last year, nah.

There is no quantitative answer. There is no specific scientific formula.

I agree there is no specific formula but if we are not setting some benchmarks here then it becomes an exercise in futility which is something I am not interesting in participating in. If we don't give any parameters on how to define success then we can manipulate the conversation to fit whatever bias we have. I am tired of that happening and instead prefer to establish a clear picture of what a good qb is so we can all agree on something.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I agree there is no specific formula but if we are not setting some benchmarks here then it becomes an exercise in futility which is something I am not interesting in participating in. If we don't give any parameters on how to define success then we can manipulate the conversation to fit whatever bias we have. I am tired of that happening and instead prefer to establish a clear picture of what a good qb is so we can all agree on something.

You say you're not interested in participating but sure seem intent on participating

 

[Jtown]

You say you're not interested in participating but sure seem intent on participating

i am not interesting in participating if we aren't attempting to define what a successful qb looks like. That is what i am attempting to get you and other to do . That way after this season we can say hey hurts is or isn't the guy.

 

[Beef Invictus]

i am not interesting in participating if we aren't attempting to define what a successful qb looks like. That is what i am attempting to get you and other to do . That way after this season we can say hey hurts is or isn't the guy.

There's a ton of QBs who do it for a year and then not again. I think I've made it clear repeatability is vital. If you're going to be paid top dollar, then you better be top five-ish annually.

 

[Jtown]

There's a ton of QBs who do it for a year and then not again. I think I've made it clear repeatability is vital. If you're going to be paid top dollar, then you better be top five-ish annually.

Top 5? has stafford, carr, kyler, watson, tannehill, dalton, garoppolo ever been top 5 they all have been paid. THat is crazy to think that only 5 players at a position are worthy of extensions.


You are worried that a qb's play is inflated by the talent around him and as soon as they sign the contract they won't be able to repeat that same success on less of a budget? what qb would you say this best describes. I can't think of this occurring off the top of my head.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Top 5? has stafford, carr, kyler, watson, tannehill, dalton, garoppolo ever been top 5 they all have been paid. THat is crazy to think that only 5 players at a position are worthy of extensions.


You are worried that a qb's play is inflated by the talent around him and as soon as they sign the contract they won't be able to repeat that same success on less of a budget? what qb would you say this best describes. I can't think of this occurring off the top of my head.

And I've told you I consider most QBs to not be worth their money, I have made that clear.

I already gave you one example: Cousins.

I am uncertain you're paying attention to what I'm saying, you're too busy being offended on Jalen's behalf.

 

[Jtown]

And I've told you I consider most QBs to not be worth their money, I have made that clear.

I already gave you one example: Cousins.

I am uncertain you're paying attention to what I'm saying, you're too busy being offended on Jalen's behalf.

so a qb is only worthy in your mind if they are a top 5 qb. Of all the statistics used today, what ones do you use to determine who is and isn't top 5?