Other Sports: Philadelphia Eagles (NFL): Vegas, Baby! (2023 Regular Season)

[Hollywood Cannon]

Kyle Hamilton plus 3 picks

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I don't even remember at this point but did the defense even properly suck when they replaced Desai? Both on 3rd down play calling and all play calling?

 

[StreetHawk]

What if Kelce signed with KC to finish out his career with his brother?

Kelce has been thinking about retire since like 2021 season. Probably best to retire as he’s gotten more notoriety the past couple of seasons and will have options for his time.

 

[Embiid]

Jeebus....their futility made it to the pages of the Wall Street Journal! Talk about a hit to your "stock"

The Stunning Collapse of the Philadelphia Eagles

Coming off a Super Bowl appearance and with the best record in the league after 12 weeks, a wild-card playoff loss cemented a stunning collapse. But there were signs of their issues even before they fell apart.

www.wsj.com

 

[Taijuan Fedotov]

Saw a stat on BGN that was the first time ever in a playoff game a team didn't convert a 3rd or 4th down.

 

[Kermit the Prog]

For those old heads (like me), the collapse was Steve Blass-like. All-Star pitcher who suddenly couldn't throw strikes anymore.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

That was so bad last night. Possibly the worst football I have ever seen, definitely the worst playoff football. From play calling, to effort, to tackling, to catching. Everyone basically with the exception of Smith and Swift just gave up and they wouldn't give Swift the damn ball.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

There was a power struggle before Desai was hired because the players wanted Dennard Wilson, who Nick fired after hiring Desai. Wilson went to Baltimore and now he’s getting the interviews.

The demotion also came with a change of scheme given they were doing things like putting Reddick into coverage, running defense they’re not designed to run. There were new coverages, I’m guessing there’s new terminology with that, and you’re doing this in December, that’s inevitably going to confuse the players on the field, plus you got players coming in and out. The whole thing on defense turned into a mess, it started with personnel decisions, and change made that worse and not better.

Desai had an extremely short leash. His defense left a lot to be desired and those last couple games was bad but it’s odd to not give a coordinator of a 10-3 team a chance to turn it around. There was definitely more than meets the eye going on

 

[GKJ]

Desai had an extremely short leash. His defense left a lot to be desired and those last couple games was bad but it’s odd to not give a coordinator of a 10-3 team a chance to turn it around. There was definitely more than meets the eye going on

He had a shorter leash than people realized, supposedly he wasn’t making his own 3rd down calls for weeks before that.

 

[BiggE]

Replacing anyone with Matt Patricia is never a good idea.

 

[StreetHawk]

I'm as big of a Howie stan as it gets, but picking Jordan Davis over Kyle Hamilton upsets me greatly

Yes, it's on-brand for the Eagles, but I don't care. It was just wrong.

He could have also just signed CJ GJ. But, the Eagles don't value the LB or S position that much these days. Long time since Dawkins patrolled the middle of the field. Howie is more willing to put the resources into the DL.

Philly hired poor coordinators. SF lost Ryans and replaced him with Wilks, who took several weeks to figure out the D. Lost an offensive coach who went with Ryans to Houston to become an OC. But, with Shanny calling the plays, the O remained intact.

Have $28.5 mill in cap room. They can create more cap room if the 3 vets don't return and moving off Slay and Bradberry, though the 2 CBs have roster bonuses due in 2024 which are guaranteed, thus just have to eat that and move forward.

In the NFL, teams sometimes need to retool if an area or 2 of the roster needs major fixing. Eagles back 7 need work.

 

[Svechhammer]

I guess it’s this time. I would bring BG back because he shouldn’t ever play for another team.

The name I know I will get pushback on is Reddick. I’d move on.

I dunno, I'd give Reddick one more year, simply because I think he was completely misused this year and you can't fault him for it. I don't know why they keep dropping him back into coverage, but its ridiculously stupid that they do. This man is at his best when he's pinning his ears back and getting to the QB. Stop trying to be cute with it, and just use our players to the abilities they've shown they are good at.

Likewise, when you have one of the best OLs in the league, run the f***ing ball. We abandoned the run over the last half of the season, and its no mistake it directly correlates to when the offense went tits up. This is a running game that was getting 5 or 6 yards a clip over the first half of the season, opening up the passing game and keeping defenses honest, and we coached ourselves into a one dimensional hellscape.

 

[Bigkarl]

I guess it’s this time. I would bring BG back because he shouldn’t ever play for another team.

The name I know I will get pushback on is Reddick. I’d move on.

Agreed on BG. I mentioned last night that besides Carter and maybe BG for sentimental purposes + he can probably still be somewhat productive for the contract, I wouldn't shed a tear about losing anyone else from the defense.

As someone who.understands the salary cap way more than me, can you elaborate on the cap implications of Kelce, BG, Cox retiring/leaving/staying. Do they carry huge dead cap penalties for void years if they retire or sign elsewhere? Does that get nullified if they re-sign? Is the ~ $28M in cap space being reported by the cap websites legit? Can we get out of Byard and Maddox's cap hits to spend big at linebacker/safety?

 

[Svechhammer]

Philly hired poor coordinators. SF lost Ryans and replaced him with Wilks, who took several weeks to figure out the D.

If/when we fire Nick, Wilks should be the first person we call. Carolina never should have let him get away, and we should be all over it.

 

[philly_28]

I don't even remember at this point but did the defense even properly suck when they replaced Desai? Both on 3rd down play calling and all play calling?

Yes, they did.

Last 4 games under Desai:

Getting outgained by KC, but still winning the game somehow (shutout in the 2nd half though tbf).

Getting outgained by Buffalo, but still winning the game somehow.

Getting properly trounced by San Fran.

Getting properly trounced by Dallas.


I remember being super sceptical about the move at the time but understanding that something needed to be done because they couldn't stop a nosebleed for a month.

 

[ajgoal]

I spent the first 5-10 minutes of the game fighting to get my HD antenna to actually show the game, then I gave up. At least now I can root for a Detroit-Buffalo SB without feeling a bit guilty.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Yes, they did.

Last 4 games under Desai:

Getting outgained by KC, but still winning the game somehow (shutout in the 2nd half though tbf).

Getting outgained by Buffalo, but still winning the game somehow.

Getting properly trounced by San Fran.

Getting properly trounced by Dallas.


I remember being super sceptical about the move at the time but understanding that something needed to be done because they couldn't stop a nosebleed for a month.

Sirianni started meddling during the bye though which was before the Chiefs game. I don't think they formally took away the 3rd down play calling until after the 49ers game but the wheels were in motion.

The whole move just smells of being reactionary after playing some really good teams.

I'd love to know who actually pushed for the change to Patricia.

 

[Chinatown88]

Kyle Hamilton plus 3 picks

(Or maybe Baltimore takes Hamilton anyway and you still take Davis and keep the picks.)

Could've been Likely, Tom, Woolen. The names just piling up the more I look back at that draft.

Holy cow thanks for triggering me even more. I hated it at the time and tried to listen to your reasoning. But damn.

 

[StreetHawk]

If/when we fire Nick, Wilks should be the first person we call. Carolina never should have let him get away, and we should be all over it.

Carolina went with what so many of those talking heads say when you take a young QB. Get an offensive coach. Which on the surface makes sense. I mean, in just 1 season Houston's OC Swovik is getting HC buzz with what he's done with Stroud. Probably too early for him to run his own team, like Ben Johnson last year, but he won't be with Houston much longer, and thus Ryans will have to find himself another OC for Stroud for either the start of year 3 or 4 most likely.

Seeing a bunch of former HC as DCs right now since the move is towards Offensive HC. So, can land a good DC and keep them for a while, like Spags in KC.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Agreed on BG. I mentioned last night that besides Carter and maybe BG for sentimental purposes + he can probably still be somewhat productive for the contract, I wouldn't shed a tear about losing anyone else from the defense.

As someone who.understands the salary cap way more than me, can you elaborate on the cap implications of Kelce, BG, Cox retiring/leaving/staying. Do they carry huge dead cap penalties for void years if they retire or sign elsewhere? Does that get nullified if they re-sign? Is the ~ $28M in cap space being reported by the cap websites legit? Can we get out of Byard and Maddox's cap hits to spend big at linebacker/safety?

I’m far from an expert either, but this how I understand each:

Kelce retiring makes a ~24MM dead cap hit. They can split that over two years by waiting until June, but there’s no getting around it.

Cox would be ~14MM in dead space if cut or traded before June or spread out over two years by waiting. But this one can also be restructured since he’s still going to play.

They have basically no obligation to give Byard anything. Tennessee took that bullet. It would be less than 1.5MM in dead space to walk away.

Maddox would be ~7.7 to cut or trade, again with the option of stretching it in June. This one can also be restructured if they wish. I could see that happening because I cannot imagine he wants to hit the market right now.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I'd love to know who actually pushed for the change to Patricia.

This. I don’t really care about the Desai change. Stick with him or don’t, whatever. You just had to try anyone else. The solution you come up with has to have a chance of working.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

He could have also just signed CJ GJ. But, the Eagles don't value the LB or S position that much these days. Long time since Dawkins patrolled the middle of the field. Howie is more willing to put the resources into the DL.

Philly hired poor coordinators. SF lost Ryans and replaced him with Wilks, who took several weeks to figure out the D. Lost an offensive coach who went with Ryans to Houston to become an OC. But, with Shanny calling the plays, the O remained intact.

Have $28.5 mill in cap room. They can create more cap room if the 3 vets don't return and moving off Slay and Bradberry, though the 2 CBs have roster bonuses due in 2024 which are guaranteed, thus just have to eat that and move forward.

In the NFL, teams sometimes need to retool if an area or 2 of the roster needs major fixing. Eagles back 7 need work.

Well I don't think we should revise history here. Howie did try to sign CJGJ, but reports clearly stated he priced himself out of the market and Howie felt he had to move on. I don't blame Howie for that. CJGJ clearly didn't get the contract he wanted, which is evidence enough for me that was indeed the truth.

Philly hired poor coordinators and that's a problem, no doubt. Now they need to correct that mistake.

 

[philly_28]

Sirianni started meddling during the bye though which was before the Chiefs game. I don't think they formally took away the 3rd down play calling until after the 49ers game but the wheels were in motion.

The whole move just smells of being reactionary after playing some really good teams.

I'd love to know who actually pushed for the change to Patricia.

Oh, absolutely, there was most probably more going on behind the scenes. How early, who knows?

I was just trying to point out that things already went south on defense before the move when Desai was still (formally at least) in control.

 

[philly_28]

This. I don’t really care about the Desai change. Stick with him or don’t, whatever. You just had to try anyone else. The solution you come up with has to have a chance of working.

Yup and I remember you saying exactly this at the time as well.

People (myself included) were arguing that it can't get any worse than under Desai. And you were pointing out that yes, under Patricia, it absolutely can get worse.

 

[StreetHawk]

I’m far from an expert either, but this how I understand each:

Kelce retiring makes a ~24MM dead cap hit. They can split that over two years by waiting until June, but there’s no getting around it.

Cox would be ~14MM in dead space if cut or traded before June or spread out over two years by waiting. But this one can also be restructured since he’s still going to play.

They have basically no obligation to give Byard anything. Tennessee took that bullet. It would be less than 1.5MM in dead space to walk away.

Maddox would be ~7.7 to cut or trade, again with the option of stretching it in June. This one can also be restructured if they wish. I could see that happening because I cannot imagine he wants to hit the market right now.

All Dead Cap charges are for money the team has paid the player, but has yet to take a cap charge on. So, it's going to hit the books sooner or later.
Cox/Graham, no clue if they are truly going to return. What is the salary they need in order to keep playing? There is an amount of prorated prior bonuses to take on them in 2024 regardless.
Byard, no more guaranteed money, and all of the prior bonuses were paid by TEN, so Eagles not on the hook for anything.
Slay and bradberry, both have guaranteed money for 2024, so it's going to hit harder to move off them, but that's the reality of it. Slay has $35 mill of dead cap if he's cut. Bradberry is like $18 mill.