Confirmed with Link: [PHI/WPG] Kevin Hayes UFA rights for a 2019 5th

[Starat327]

Lol at calling out peoples sarcastic thoughts as realistic reasons for not wanting a player


It never ends.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Exactly and that is the point I was making. The Blues paid 5 million for three years of Bozak likely on declining years at 32 years old. On the flip side the Flyers giving Hayes six years means they are most likely paying for four prime years and then the last two years take him up to Bozak's age of 32. Again I am not going to say that Hayes at 6/36 is good value but it would be fair market value. We will have to wait and see what he gets though, it wouldn't surprise to me to see him get more since the Islanders gave Nelson 6/36.

I agree. I think Hayes will probably get a little more than Nelson.

 

[Rebels57]

lol if Kakko gets more points than him next year I’m losing my ****.

I mean, he probably will.

 

[FlyerNutter]

He's flashier, yes. All I care about is effectiveness.

I'm glad you mentioned fit. How much of the offense from Duchene comes on the PP? Would he play PP1 here?

I haven't checked today, but if I recall correctly, Hayes is good on Entries but Duchene is still a solid bit better. That definitely matters on this team.

Fit is important. More than anything as I see it. I think that has been ignored for a long time. Can’t have a bunch of average skating guys where the vast majority can’t creatively handle the puck for example.

Hayes is a decent player, but the Flyers needed creativity/speed/skill. They to a lesser extent needed someone who also brings an edge to their game.

I don’t see those things when I think of Hayes. Will see what happens.

 

[bobbythebrain]

It would have to be a significant return. Someone floated the idea of patrick for laine. Im not in favor of that

I like Patrick. I see alot of good and potential in his game. However, I also see a player who isn't improving at head turning rate, despite having superb linemates thus far. Could that be from his injury history?

2 30 point seasons is rather dissapointing for the 2nd overall. I'm not saying I want him traded, but I do think it's possible we do while he still has value

1 more 30 point season and he's Jesse Puljujarvi level

 

[The Madrigal]

Patrick had 11 points in 38 games up to mid Jan. He flat out needed to produce more. He is a #2 pick after all.

I believe in him and think he could be better than Hayes as early as next year. But he certainly has not shown he will be.

And that would be great and not a problem what so ever. I keep coming back to this, but how people are twisting this into Patrick being buried is something that is just a false narrative. If the Flyers are going to get better and becoming a playoff team they need to have three really good centers. The idea of just hoping that Patrick would take huge steps next year and that Frost would be ready at all, let alone to be an impact player was extremely flawed, wishful thinking. This is the type of move a team makes to get better and position themselves along with another move or two to take huge steps forward.

 

[The Madrigal]

Fit is important. More than anything as I see it. I think that has been ignored for a long time. Can’t have a bunch of average skating guys where the vast majority can’t creatively handle the puck for example.

Hayes is a decent player, but the Flyers needed creativity/speed/skill. They to a lesser extent needed someone who also brings an edge to their game.

I don’t see those things when I think of Hayes. Will see what happens.

They also needed better two-way play and guys who fit properly in the new coaches system. Hayes checks off both of those boxes.

 

[TCTC]

The goal should be to have 3 good centers. Strength down the middle is of the utmost importance; center is the most important position on each line.

When the Flyers won the Cup, they had Clarke-MacLeish-Lonsberry down the middle. In 03/04, they had Primeau, Roenick, Handzus. In 07/08, they had Carter, Richards, Briere.

Sometimes I feel like fans are happy to settle with average or "good enough." If you want to be a really good team, you should want outstanding depth down the middle. Backstrom-Kuznetsov. Crosby-Malkin. Matthews-Tavares. Bergeron-Krajci. Those are just a few of the combinations you are up against in the East.

Patrick as a 2C just doesn't cut it at this point in his career. Now, adding a good 2C in Hayes and having Patrick as a 3C with upside? Much deeper, better team, and much less pressure on Patrick.

That's why this is a good move for Patrick. Less pressure, easier matchups.

If he has another season like last year, he may never recover and reach his full potential.

 

[FlyerNutter]

They also needed better two-way play and guys who fit properly in the new coaches system. Hayes checks off both of those boxes.

I’m heading back to the crazy posting side.

f*** the two way obsession. I’ve had it up to my eyeballs with two way players. Bore me to death. Give me speed and some skill.

*returns to rational land after this post*

 

[The Madrigal]

I’m heading back to the crazy posting side.

**** the two way obsession. I’ve had it up to my eyeballs with two way players. Bore me to death. Give me speed and some skill.

*returns to rational land after this post*

I don't disagree that they need more speed. I expect them to add someone cheap for the third line like a Hagelin who can bring a ton of speed.

 

[bobbythebrain]

I’m heading back to the crazy posting side.

**** the two way obsession. I’ve had it up to my eyeballs with two way players. Bore me to death. Give me speed and some skill.

*returns to rational land after this post*

Yet the 2 teams in the finals are 2 of the slower yet heavier teams out there

 

[kelmitchell]

I'm waiting to see the contract before I make a decision on this, but amac has to be traded if we sign him to 5.6 or more

 

[Starat327]

Not sure why we picked up Hayes, weve already got 2 3Cs...

 

[Striiker]

Patrick had 11 points in 38 games up to mid Jan. He flat out needed to produce more. He is a #2 pick after all.

I believe in him and think he could be better than Hayes as early as next year. But he certainly has not shown he will be.

The only way those numbers are relevant is if you expect them to be repeated and forget how f***ed most of the team was to start last year.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Yet the 2 teams in the finals are 2 of the slower yet heavier teams out there

They sure are. I kind of think it’s the outlying thing when looking at league trends.

Could be wrong, but I think the successful teams in the league will continue down the path of speed/skill.

 

[Devonator]

A couple of things...I wasn't aware Hayes was around a 50 point player on a bad Rangers team and that he is only 27.....this would be a fine deal if we can get it under 5 years and no higher then 6 million....However...one concern ....does this mean we are not even entertaining going after some of the big guns on July 1st?

 

[Rebels57]

Yet the 2 teams in the finals are 2 of the slower yet heavier teams out there

Boston is actually pretty small and very fast. They just have that reputation. Blues arent slow either, but do play a heavy game.

 

[bobbythebrain]

They sure are. I kind of think it’s the outlying thing when looking at league trends.

Could be wrong, but I think the successful teams in the league will continue down the path of speed/skill.

I don't. They've been saying that for 2 years now and yet the bigger, grittier teams are winning. TB is a prime example of a team built that way but not made for the playoffs

Every team will have a good chunk of speedy guys, so I'm not advocating on just slow players, , it's good to have a mix of both

I don't mind the Hayes move cuz 6'5 and decent skill is every good a s speed

 

[The Madrigal]

A couple of things...I wasn't aware Hayes was around a 50 point player on a bad Rangers team and that he is only 27.....this would be a fine deal if we can get it under 5 years and no higher then 6 million....However...one concern ....does this mean we are not even entertaining going after some of the big guns on July 1st?

Shouldn't rule out Karlsson as a possibility.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

That's why this is a good move for Patrick. Less pressure, easier matchups.

If he has another season like last year, he may never recover and reach his full potential.

The Flyers can't afford to bet their season on Patrick at 2C. Assuming Hayes signs, if Patrick struggles with consistency again, it's much less of a big deal at 3C. And depending on how much Patrick improves (and he should with easier matchups), it could make the FLyers very dangerous with 3 good lines. So I agree: It's a win-win.

 

[The Madrigal]

I don't. They've been saying that for 2 years now and yet the bigger, grittier teams are winning. TB is a prime example of a team built that way but not made for the playoffs

Every team will have a good chunk of speedy guys, so I'm not advocating on just slow players, , it's good to have a mix of both

I don't mind the Hayes move cuz 6'5 and decent skill is every good a s speed

The key is to have a good balance of speed/skill and size/toughness. The days of big lumbering thugs are obviously long gone but every player can't be a 5'10 180 pound speedster either.

 

[Rebels57]

The only way those numbers are relevant is if you expect them to be repeated and forget how ****ed most of the team was to start last year.

Sure, its not all on Patrick. There are mitigating factors, but he still wasnt good enough.

 

[Tripod]

And that would be great and not a problem what so ever. I keep coming back to this, but how people are twisting this into Patrick being buried is something that is just a false narrative. If the Flyers are going to get better and becoming a playoff team they need to have three really good centers. The idea of just hoping that Patrick would take huge steps next year and that Frost would be ready at all, let alone to be an impact player was extremely flawed, wishful thinking. This is the type of move a team makes to get better and position themselves along with another move or two to take huge steps forward.

I agree with you. As of now, assuming he signs, we finally have C depth. Something have not had since our cup run days. And we still have a top 9 winger spot for Frost as of today. If anyone, he is the one who could get AHL time for more seasoning. But right now, if I am Patrick, I am working my ass off all summer to prove to Flyers Mgt that he is the player that deserved to be drafted#2 overall. It's on Patrick.

And for Frost, it's a sign that nothing is being gifted to him. So better work your ass off too.

I have said the issue was going to be term and cap hit that I would not like. But we 100% needed to add someone for 1-2 years at minimum in case the kids DON'T developed as hoped....but I still think they will.

In the end, in 2 years with expansion things can change quickly. And still can make trades in the future. Maybe JVR gets moved in 2 years. Maybe Hayes himself. We have options.

 

[FlyerNutter]

The key is to have a good balance of speed/skill and size/toughness. The days of big lumbering thugs are obviously long gone but every player can't be a 5'10 180 pound speedster either.

Definitely not, it’s balance. Frankly I think the Flyers are one of the slower playing clubs in the league and handle the puck like shit.

Whether that’s players, or coaching. We shall see.

 

[Striiker]

Getting deja vu between these Patrick posts and posts about Couturier a few years ago.