Confirmed with Link: [PHI/WPG] Kevin Hayes UFA rights for a 2019 5th

[Striiker]

Point remains, the Middle 6 on good teams is usually going to play close to the same amount at ES. Im not a Hayes fan, but I dont think his acquisition will hurt Patricks opportunity to be productive.

Lindblom - Patrick - Frost could be a pretty nasty 3rd line.

Or maybe Fletch trades for Zucker to play 3RW. We shall see.

I’d be shocked if Frost is on the roster and even more shocked if Patrick doesn’t get f***ed over.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Again, I generally think Hayes doesn't get enough credit for how good he's been the last 3 years.

I'm going to be extremely interested to see what type of players Vigneault ices with him. The microstats on Grabner/Hayes/Miller are just plain weird. Imagine skilled players told to play as passively as a Hakstol 4th line but prioritizing counterattacks springing Grabner into open ice.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Hayes is still a good defensive forward who is also more productive than Bozak and five years younger than him. All I'm saying is the Blues gave Bozak 5 million per year and I doubt they or their fans are complaining. If Bozaks gets 5 million last summer with a lower cap and Nelson (who isn't as good as Hayes) gets 6 million last month than that is what the market price is for Hayes.

Yeah, that’s what it’s gonna be. And if that upsets people, and we’re rolling Couturier/Hayes/Patrick down the middle...that’s your top 9 centers for under $12 million next season. Not a bad arrangement, with the caliber of the wings around them. Yes, Patrick will get more soon. But they’re in fine shape. There’s no prize for the team most under-the-cap or the team that uses the most coupons in free agency.

 

[FlyerNutter]

The Kadri point however is a good one. I may not agree with it, but the club is at the point where they do have to try and compete now.

To do that they did need to bring in another centerman after Nolan’s struggles and the unknown in Frost.

If I had to choose between overpaying for Hayes, or having to give up more assets for a better guy like Kadri I guess I can talk myself into being okay with Hayes.

Duchene would have been the ideal.

 

[Random Forest]

I don't doubt that Patrick will be better in the near/mid term. That's why I want him as 2C.
Problem is, if he proves me right and proves he deserves to play there, I have ZERO faith in NHL coaches in recognizing that and changing the lineup accordingly.

I could see this as a damn near perfect copy of last year with Sanheim.

Right, but it’s not worth betting yet another year on the hope that Patrick breaks out. If he does, then fantastic — we’ll have both Hayes and a good Patrick. But if you want to build a competitive roster, you can’t just assume improvement. You need to guarantee that talent is added. That’s what Hayes does, even if his cap value is less than ideal.

Also, who says a team can’t have three productive centers? Dumb coaching doesn’t impede Patrick’s ability to break out if he truly is the player you think he is. Trust me, no one has a dimmer view of NHL coaches than I do, but Patrick will get opportunities to break through. If he doesn’t do it, then that’s on him.

 

[baudib1]

Not sure why you think this is a bad move?

Both Boston and St Louis added 50 point C's this year who can play defense

@Madrigal. This is what I meant. Bozak and Coyle were both serviceable 2nd line C's who now are on the 3rd line. We now have that also.

I'll also add that Hakstol made G a winger. It's very possible AV puts him.back at C.

G, Coots, Hayes. That's pretty solid

Coyle is signed for 1 more year at $3.2M. Bozak has 2 more years at $5M per. If you NEED a guy like Hayes you can get them midseason like Boston did and not commit $30M+ to them.

 

[Rebels57]

I’d be shocked if Frost is on the roster and even more shocked if Patrick doesn’t get ****ed over.

The only way Patrick gets f***ed over is if he ends up 4C behind Laughton lol

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Does anyone think the Blues regret giving a 32 year old Tyler Bozak a three year deal at 5 million per? Hayes is five years younger and a more productive version of Bozak. If they give him 6/36 it's no different than a 32 year old Bozak getting 3/15. It's the cost of doing business in free agency and trying improve your team.

I've made the Bozak point, as well, and I think it's an apt one.

Hayes will only be 27 and is an improving player just hitting his prime. He's got a lot of good years left. Bozak's deal takes Bozak through his age 34 season, and it was worth it for St. Louis. And they didn't even get prime Bozak.

 

[Rebels57]

Coyle is signed for 1 more year at $3.2M. Bozak has 2 more years at $5M per. If you NEED a guy like Hayes you can get them midseason like Boston did and not commit $30M+ to them.

Would you have been cool with Ratcliffe for 1 + years of Coyle? Donato is Ratcliffe tier.

Bozak was signed as a UFA at 32

 

[Adtar02]

The Kadri point however is a good one. I may not agree with it, but the club is at the point where they do have to try and compete now.

To do that they did need to bring in another centerman after Nolan’s struggles and the unknown in Frost.

If I had to choose between overpaying for Hayes, or having to give up more assets for a better guy like Kadri I guess I can talk myself into being okay with Hayes.

Duchene would have been the ideal.

Is kadri a better player?

 

[The Madrigal]

Right, but it’s not worth betting yet another year on the hope that Patrick breaks out. If he does, then fantastic — we’ll have both Hayes and a good Patrick. But if you want to build a competitive roster, you can’t just assume improvement. You need to guarantee that talent is added. That’s what Hayes does, even if his cap value is less than ideal.

Also, who says a team can’t have three productive centers? Dumb coaching doesn’t impede Patrick’s ability to break out if he truly is the player you think he is. Trust me, no one has a dimmer view of NHL coaches than I do, but Patrick will get opportunities to break through. If he doesn’t do it, then that’s on him.

Well said. This move not only doesn't bury Patrick, it enables him to develop at his pace with less pressure and likely easier match ups. There is plenty of room for both Hayes and Patrick behind Couturier to be productive and have success on this team. Most successful NHL team have three very good centers. I just don't understand how some people don't like the idea of a 1-2-3 punch of Couturier, Hayes, Patrick at center. That is a great blend of size, two-way play, production, etc and it makes the Flyers a better team.

 

[Tripod]

Depends on what you see as 4th line minutes

31 games at lower than 14 min seems like a large chunk of the season to me.
Meanwhile Patrick played 29 games where he didn't even reach 15 min.

Maybe he should have played better.

 

[SnS]

Give hayes 3x7. Hell, 3x8. I'm good with either. But if he wants a 4th year it goes down to 6. If he wants a 7th year, call the 5th rounder a sunk cost.

...and buy the poor man a razor.

I fear for anything above 6m with term. You know my stance on this player and the possible money.

 

[Striiker]

Right, but it’s not worth betting yet another year on the hope that Patrick breaks out. If he does, then fantastic — we’ll have both Hayes and a good Patrick. But if you want to build a competitive roster, you can’t just assume improvement. You need to guarantee that talent is added. That’s what Hayes does, even if his cap value is less than ideal.

Also, who says a team can’t have three productive centers? Trust me, no one has a dimmer view of NHL coaches than I do, but Patrick will get opportunities to break through. If he doesn’t do it, then that’s on him.

I don't see it as betting the year on Patrick. I don't think it comes down to him performing or not, last year or this upcoming year.

I think this team makes the playoffs EASILY last year if only two changes are made: stable goaltending all year and the coaches not f***ing everything up.

But because the team crashed and burned last year (in my eyes, due to the two things above) it seems like people are trying to assign too much blame where it doesn't belong and are being reactionary. As if big moves are needed to have a big improvement, when instead it should be KEY changes.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Is kadri a better player?

I’d take him over Hayes, especially factoring his deal.

Of course he would cost more than a 5th round pick.

 

[The Madrigal]

Yeah, that’s what it’s gonna be. And if that upsets people, and we’re rolling Couturier/Hayes/Patrick down the middle...that’s your top 9 centers for under $12 million next season. Not a bad arrangement, with the caliber of the wings around them. Yes, Patrick will get more soon. But they’re in fine shape. There’s no prize for the team most under-the-cap or the team that uses the most coupons in free agency.

Well said. Sometimes it seems like people don't want the Flyers, their own team, to get better.

 

[baudib1]

Would you have been cool with Ratcliffe for 1 + years of Coyle? Donato is Ratcliffe tier.

Bozak was signed as a UFA at 32

If we're on pace for ~105-110 points and have a need and can get a guy for 2 playoff runs, then sure.

 

[SnS]

Would you have been cool with Ratcliffe for 1 + years of Coyle? Donato is Ratcliffe tier.

Bozak was signed as a UFA at 32

I know I wasn’t asked. But I might have been. I’m heavily bias towards Coyle though. I think he’s a gamer

 

[The Madrigal]

I’d take him over Hayes, especially factoring his deal.

Of course he would cost more than a 5th round pick.

Kari would cost a minimum of a first round pick. Maybe not the 11th pick, but certainly a first in 2020 and probably something else. The Leafs have cap issues but since Kadri's contract is so reasonable they don't have to move him.

 

[Striiker]

The only way Patrick gets ****ed over is if he ends up 4C behind Laughton lol

You underestimate the incompetence of NHL coaches.

Maybe he should have played better.

He played well enough to deserve better than that.

 

[FlyerNutter]

I don't see it as betting the year on Patrick. I don't think it comes down to him performing or not, last year or this upcoming year.

I think this team makes the playoffs EASILY last year if only two changes are made: stable goaltending all year and the coaches not ****ing everything up.

But because the team crashed and burned last year (in my eyes, due to the two things above) it seems like people are trying to assign too much blame where it doesn't belong and are being reactionary. As if big moves are needed to have a big improvement, when instead it should be KEY changes.

My issue with Nolan isn’t even so much the performance, even though I will assign blame for him going absolutely MIA for very long stretches...

It’s the health question. I can’t bring myself to rely on him in that department. Not when (and this is another point) you have Laughton as the next man up.

G needs to stay on wing. I get the desire to go out and get a centerman. Frost sadly, is too much of a gamble I think.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Well said. Sometimes it seems like people don't want the Flyers, their own team, to get better.

It’s not that they don’t want them to get better, it’s that they’re sure everyone else in the world is a goddamn moron and only their Twitter hot takes can bring a Cup back to Philly.

 

[Striiker]

Well said. Sometimes it seems like people don't want the Flyers, their own team, to get better.

Like trading Couturier and Sanheim would have?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

He better have tried damn hard to put the feelers out for Duchene and Panarin is all I’ll say.

If Hayes was his first target and he blindly just went after him, and only him. My god.

I'm not positive Duchene is better. I'm reasonably certain he's not significantly better.

 

[FlyerNutter]

I'm not positive Duchene is better. I'm reasonably certain he's not significantly better.

He’s the more skilled guy when it comes to creating offence, and a much better skater.

It’s about fit too, even with the overpayment I think Duchene does a hell of a lot more to move this group of guys forward than a North/South guy in Hayes.