Confirmed with Link: [PHI/WPG] Kevin Hayes UFA rights for a 2019 5th

[Adtar02]

That logic doesn't work.

It's the same as when TK was demoted... he was still great but his scoring and impact suffered because he was playing too little and with inferior players who held him back. This could easily go the same way and it's terrible for the team.

This isn’t quite the same. Tk benefits a lot from coots and g. While he is really good that’s next level teammates. Patrick at worst getting jvr, linblom, or Frost is still a lot of skill. Tk got who when sent down?

And when we moved g to center this past year in a few games Patrick started look much better. Playing a dominant style and started scoring. Same with the coots line. It’s funny cause at first it was all g jvr and tk. Then they got exposed defensively. Especially with our break out style that gordon went to.

To me the mistake was not switching one of voracek or linblom with tk or jvr. Would have helped a ton with possession and puck retrieval.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Well...I guess we replaced our long faced player.

paging @Captain Dave Poulin

Target acquired. Laughingstock labeled. Prepare for six years of unadulterated hatred.

So this is real news, I guess? Not too surprising, is it.

Fire Fletcher.

 

[Rebels57]

Hayes averaged 18+, Patrick averaged 15.

Are you predicting Hayes to go down or Patrick to go up?

Im talking ES TOI per game

Last season the Flyers 2C Patrick averaged 57 seconds more ES TOI than the 3C Laughton.

https://www.foxsports.com/nhl/philadelphia-flyers-team-stats?season=2018&category=ICE+TIME&time=0

Hayes 14:58
Patrick 13:24
Laughton 12:27

 

[tictactoe]

We got Hayes, we'll get Talbot, and then we can sign Stralman and Giradi!

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Well said. If they were going to get a free agent center it was down to Duchene and Hayes after Nelson re-signed. The competition and I believe the price will only get higher on 7/1 with multiple teams bidding for two guys. The alternative was to give up a high level pick or prospect and possibly a package of those to do so. Considering they might have to do that to get a top four D this was the smart move to make. Will they have to ''overpay'' for him, more than likely. That's the trade off for addressing a clear need with a free agent versus trading assets for someone. They just got much better though and assuming they can get him signed in the next week they can check off one box and move to the next area they need to upgrade.

Agreed. If they can lock up Hayes for the same 6 years, $36M that Brock Nelson got, it's a no-brainer and trading the pick will be well worth it. Now their center ice depth goes from poor to rock solid, and they can ice 3 solid lines without glaring weaknesses. It will be a big difference maker.

 

[Striiker]

6x6 wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. It’s not good value, and I would be fine without it, but you don’t need to field a team of maximally efficient contracts in order to have success. Even if he’s just a 45 -50 point player, he would still make our roster better than it would be without him.

Building a team means maximizing talent. Not maximizing cap efficiency. Occasionally these two goals are in conflict with one another. Sometimes I think people really struggle with this concept.

I’m not worried about the cap space. I’m worried that his contract will earn him a guaranteed spot as 2C in the (I believe likely) scenario where Patrick outplays him and deserves it more.

While also potentially blocking Frost.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Kevin Hayes sucks.

This sucks.

Everything sucks.

View attachment 233481

This times infinity.

 

[HeyHanrahan]

The player is decent. Just bracing myself for an albatross of a contract. I fear we endured years of salary cap hell for Fletcher to sign mediocre players to ridiculous contracts. Unless a team is ready to contend for the cup, free agency should be geared towards the bargain hunting rather than setting the market.

 

[The Madrigal]

Lindblom, Vorobyov and TL is the past couple years, but go ahead, just keeping swallowing Chuck; He deserves you servitude.

Vorobyev was a fourth round pick. Laczynski was a 6th round pick. Perhaps you should bring correct facts to the table. Either way Vorobyev has proven nothing at the NHL level and if he had perhaps they wouldn't need to pick up Hayes. Laczynski hasn't even proven to be a good AHL'er yet. As far as Lindblom goes, congrats on naming ONE good 5th round pick the Flyers have made.

Complaining about giving up a 5th round pick to fill a big hole at second line center when your prospect pool is already loaded is beyond silly and invalidates your entire argument.

 

[renberg]

6X6 would be a fair contract for Hayes in this market. I don't see how CBJ can allow Duchene to leave since they're losing Panarin especially after what they gave up to acquire him. They're both going to hit the bank hard. The contracts signed by Tavares and Matthews will probably to be equalled by Marner and is setting the bar for top centers in the $10M per range.

 

[tictactoe]

Lehtera out Hayes in.
Sign him to a good contract..

 

[The Madrigal]

Agreed. If they can lock up Hayes for the same 6 years, $36M that Brock Nelson got, it's a no-brainer and trading the pick will be well worth it. Now their center ice depth goes from poor to rock solid, and they can ice 3 solid lines without glaring weaknesses. It will be a big difference maker.

Agreed. I don't love Hayes at 6/36 but I don't think it's something that will come back to haunt them in any way. This is a a guy who just turned 27 years old in May coming off of his best NHL season. It's not like they would be investing 6 years in a 30 year old player whose best years are coming to a close.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Why oh why couldn't Hextall fire Hakstol? Hextall never would have made this move.

Hexy deserved to be fired, but I was fully behind his roster construction, even if he was slow in giving some of the kids a shot.

This is a desperation move when it is entirely unnecessary. May pay off, but I am highly skeptical.

Not impressed with Fletcher so far.

****ing bingo, pal.

 

[Striiker]

Im talking ES TOI per game

Last season the Flyers 2C Patrick averaged 57 seconds more ES TOI than the 3C Laughton.

https://www.foxsports.com/nhl/philadelphia-flyers-team-stats?season=2018&category=ICE+TIME&time=0

Hayes 14:58
Patrick 13:24
Laughton 12:27

Laughton was 4C for a lot of the year. Patrick being only being a minute ahead of him was a mistake.

 

[Rebels57]

Laughton was 4C for a lot of the year. Patrick being only being a minute ahead of him was a mistake.

Not too often. Maybe 15-20 games?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

In an attempt to make everyone feel better, Boston signed David Backes to a 5 year $30 million contract back in 2016, and he was 32 at the time. He hasnt lived up to it but it hasnt held Boston back either.

So theres that.

Hayes just turned 27 so I’d hope he wouldn’t fall off a cliff like Backes did.

 

[The Madrigal]

The 2 teams in the final right now added 2nd/3rd line C's this year.

I like this move more and more TBH

Not sure what exactly this means, but you and I are agreeing for the first time ever and it's about something major.

 

[Random Forest]

I’m not worried about the cap space. I’m worried that his contract will earn him a guaranteed spot as 2C in the (I believe likely) scenario where Patrick outplays him and deserves it more.

While also potentially blocking Frost.

Let’s be honest, if Patrick isn’t *clearly* better than Hayes at some point in the near- or mid-term, then the issue will be with Patrick, not with Hayes or his contract.

I understand the concern about “blocking” young players, and sympathize to some extent, but the young players need to actually force the issue. Patrick is not close yet. And Frost is nothing yet.

If Patrick reaches that point, then we can bitch about AV if and when he decides to play Hayes over a hypothetically-improved Patrick. But signing a 6’5” 50 point middle 6 center won’t be the issue in that case.

 

[Rebels57]

Hayes just turned 27 so I’d hope he wouldn’t fall off a cliff like Backes did.

Yeah that was part of the "make everyone feel better" lol

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I've already moved on to the bargaining stage in the grief cycle...

"Well, Fletcher can just use one of our amnesty buyouts on Hayes after the next lockout."

Stiz, I did my best to make my peace months ago with the idea of acquiring him, because we knew 100% that this was going to happen. But all it really accomplished was to make me hate hockey.

**** off, Kevin, and **** off hard, UpChuck.

 

[Magua]

Lindblom, Vorobyov and TL is the past couple years, but go ahead, just keeping swallowing Chuck; He deserves you servitude.

Hogberg, Ersson, Lindblom, Cates, Kase.

It’s been a good round for them. Not saying they would strike gold again; not saying they can’t deal with a singular late round pick loss as a cost of business. But it’s definitely wrong to suggest they haven’t gotten great value from these picks.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Columbus would have to give up their first round pick for 2020 unprotected if they were to re-sign Duchene.

They have their third rounder & Calgary’s seventh rounder for this upcoming draft.

 

[lancer247]

If we are gonna waste money on someone like him we would he better of spending it on someone with legit upside like karlsson, Duchene or breadman. If we are going after middle tier guys hopefully we sign zuccarello next and have him feed that big clumsy oaf Hayes just like he did with rags.

You’re assuming they want to come here

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Agreed. I don't love Hayes at 6/36 but I don't think it's something that will come back to haunt them in any way. This is a a guy who just turned 27 years old in May coming off of his best NHL season. It's not like they would be investing 6 years in a 30 year old player whose best years are coming to a close.

6/36 is simply the going rate for a player of Hayes' caliber on the open market in 2019. I'd be completely fine with it. No, it's not a steal, but UFAs always come at a premium. That's the trade-off for not having to give up any assets to acquire the player. I think people tend to get stuck on contract values from years' past and struggle to recalibrate for inflation and expanding salary caps. Sort of like how older generations inevitably complain about the price of dinner at restaurants. Times change.

 

[Striiker]

Not too often. Maybe 15-20 games?

Depends on what you see as 4th line minutes

31 games at lower than 14 min seems like a large chunk of the season to me.
Meanwhile Patrick played 29 games where he didn't even reach 15 min.