Prospect Info: Phantoms (AHL), Reading Royals (ECHL), NCAA, Jrs., Int'l, etc. [The Final 2022, First 2023 Edition]

[Curufinwe]

Just to be clear, everyone here knows that if the Flyers' brain trust decided to bench Deslauriers and put Lycksell on the 4th line for the next game, you would immediately change your opinion and say that it was a smart move.

 

[deadhead]

Every single skilled prospect they get has to go through their attempts to turn them into grinders. All of them. This goes above Tortorella. He's just one aspect of the development process, and hardly the most important one. I don't know how many times I need to say this, but Tortorella is not running the team. What do you think they're doing when they whine about size and try to get everyone to bulk up? When they punish players for scoring too much and say they need to focus on defense (an idea Tortorella has agreed with)?

They obsess over perceived weaknesses. They obsess over defense. They do not prioritize offensive creativity at all. Once more I wonder what you're even paying attention to if you can't spy these years-long trends where words and actions agree.

Uh, maybe you haven't noticed, but most players need functional strength to make plays in the NHL.
Or why Martel never made it.
Even TK is probably around 190 now in a compact frame.

One of the key scouting assessments is to assess how physical maturity will impact the future play of 18 year olds.
It's normal for prospects to add 15-30 lbs by the time they get to the NHL.

Yes, really agile and quick players with great hands like JG can get away with being undersized smurfs.
Anyone on the Flyers with that level of skill?

 

[Beef Invictus]

I wasn't "fine" with it, at the time there weren't a lot of options (Allison injured) and MacEwen wasn't terrible in that role, he can be the guy to do the dirty work, he's an excellent forechecker and unlike Deslauriers, can actually puck handle to some extent - he just can't finish to save his life.

It would be a waste for Lycksell b/c he needs a center to feed him the puck, he's not going to drive play like Tippett or Allison, he's really not cut out to be a forechecker, he should be matched with skilled linemates.

Then he could get up to NHL speed and get rotated in. Revolving Door, right? Where is it?

If MacEwen and Deslauriers have jammed the famous and guaranteed revolving door shut because they're so bad, they're blocking prospects.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Uh, maybe you haven't noticed, but most players need functional strength to make plays in the NHL.
Or why Martel never made it.
Even TK is probably around 190 now in a compact frame.

One of the key scouting assessments is to assess how physical maturity will impact the future play of 18 year olds.
It's normal for prospects to add 15-30 lbs by the time they get to the NHL.

Yes, really agile and quick players with great hands like JG can get away with being undersized smurfs.
Anyone on the Flyers with that level of skill?

You definitely haven't noticed the Flyers value it more than actual playing ability. Somehow.

 

[deadhead]

Just to be clear, everyone here knows that if the Flyers' brain trust decided to bench Deslauriers and put Lycksell on the 4th line for the next game, you would immediately change your opinion and say that it was a smart move.

No, not unless they got someone else to play center with him.
I want to see him replace JVR in a month (unless Brink keeps it up and they move Tippett over to make a spot for him).
I don't think Lycksell has a future on the 4th line. For the same reason Willman can't cut it there.

 

[renberg]

Every single skilled prospect they get has to go through their attempts to turn them into grinders. All of them. This goes above Tortorella. He's just one aspect of the development process, and hardly the most important one. I don't know how many times I need to say this, but Tortorella is not running the team. What do you think they're doing when they whine about size and try to get everyone to bulk up? When they punish players for scoring too much and say they need to focus on defense (an idea Tortorella has agreed with)?

They obsess over perceived weaknesses. They obsess over defense. They do not prioritize offensive creativity at all. Once more I wonder what you're even paying attention to if you can't spy these years-long trends where words and actions agree.

The obsession with perceived weakness is accurate. TPTB incessantly pick over a player to find one/them even if they don’t exist. It almost makes one wonder why they selected who they did?
There’s nothing wrong with emphasizing defense since most guys coming out at 18 are offensive stars who play only one half of the rink.

 

[Curufinwe]

No, not unless they got someone else to play center with him.
I want to see him replace JVR in a month (unless Brink keeps it up and they move Tippett over to make a spot for him).
I don't think Lycksell has a future on the 4th line. For the same reason Willman can't cut it there.

Lycksell is not like Willman.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The obsession with perceived weakness is accurate. TPTB incessantly pick over a player to find one/them even if they don’t exist. It almost makes one wonder why they selected who they did?
There’s nothing wrong with emphasizing defense since most guys coming out at 18 are offensive stars who play only one half of the rink.

There's something wrong with it when it comes at the expense of other areas of their game.

 

[wasup]

Oh shit we played Washington last night and forgot NAK was playing for them . Long story short he did not but I completely forgot he was with them .

 

[Beef Invictus]

No, not unless they got someone else to play center with him.
I want to see him replace JVR in a month (unless Brink keeps it up and they move Tippett over to make a spot for him).
I don't think Lycksell has a future on the 4th line. For the same reason Willman can't cut it there.

You aren't even an hour removed from defending the Deslauriers signing. You would definitely defend them dropping Lycksell in without any other changes.

Hell, you're currently defending the absence of his recall even though it explicitly violated the revolving door principle you promoted at length for months.

 

[deadhead]

Lycksell is not like Willman.

As a 4th liner he is, Willman is faster than Lycksell, problem is he lacks skill to play up the lineup and the strength to be effective in a forechecker role.

There's something wrong with it when it comes at the expense of other areas of their game.

Why would it come at the expense of other areas of their game?
Only if they're uncoachable and don't want to work that hard.
Hasn't hurt Frost at all to play better off the puck.
Nor any other Flyer forward.

Defense is primarily a matter of desire and IQ, you can't do much about the later, you can expect the former.
When the other team has the puck, you should skate just as hard getting back on defense as you do to garner a scoring chance.
If you lack the stamina to do so, that's on the player.

 

[Beef Invictus]

As a 4th liner he is, Willman is faster than Lycksell, problem is he lacks skill to play up the lineup and the strength to be effective in a forechecker role.


Why would it come at the expense of other areas of their game?
Only if they're uncoachable and don't want to work that hard.
Hasn't hurt Frost at all to play better off the puck.
Nor any other Flyer forward.

Defense is primarily a matter of desire and IQ, you can't do much about the later, you can expect the former.
When the other team has the puck, you should skate just as hard getting back on defense as you do to garner a scoring chance.
If you lack the stamina to do so, that's on the player.

Because they demand safety over initiative and creativity. It rots those skills. It shatters players' confidence in their ability to make those plays without getting punished. This is simple stuff. We've seen it unfold time and again.

 

[deadhead]

Because they demand safety over initiative and creativity. It rots those skills. It shatters players' confidence in their ability to make those plays without getting punished. This is simple stuff. We've seen it unfold time and again.

Tort's scheme doesn't emphasize safety, but responsibility.
He employs an aggressive forecheck and encourages D-men to attack the O-zone.

But for this to work, forwards have to know when to cycle back to protect D-men, and all players have to skate hard on the back check when they lose possession to limit the time the opposing offense has to make plays in the D-zone.

Nothing about this scheme stifles offense, it does stifle "cherry picking" and half-assed defensive effort.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Tort's scheme doesn't emphasize safety, but responsibility.
He employs an aggressive forecheck and encourages D-men to attack the O-zone.

But for this to work, forwards have to know when to cycle back to protect D-men, and all players have to skate hard on the back check when they lose possession to limit the time the opposing offense has to make plays in the D-zone.

Nothing about this scheme stifles offense, it does stifle "cherry picking" and half-assed defensive effort.

Tortorella is one guy. He isn't coaching the AHL. He isn't Fletcher and Flahr savaging prospects for being creative instead of safe, demanding they bulk up rather than skill up, and keeping them down or demoting them for nothing while grinders get infinite opportunities. Pay attention this time: Tortorella does not run the organization.

His scheme does stifle offense by being a decade out of date, though. Especially when you have TDA, Sanheim, York, and even Provorov, if his rookie skillset even exists in there anymore. All of whom can do the Modern Thing from up top. But he's focused on grinding out and making chances down low and from the boards (the harder way) rather than creating a bunch of mini rushes in the zone to slam the puck down the D's throats in the slot. There's a reason why his offenses aren't very productive.

He always seems close to understanding. He gets the potential utility of dmen, and that's a big thing driving these best offenses. Like Hakstol before him, actually using that utility is something else though. Says interesting things, doesn't follow through on ice.

 

[deadhead]

The Flyer zone entry rate is close to league average.
Do they have above average offensive skill people?

 

[blackjackmulligan]

The Flyer zone entry rate is close to league average.
Do they have above average offensive skill people?

according to you yes!!!!

 

[Beef Invictus]

The Flyer zone entry rate is close to league average.
Do they have above average offensive skill people?

If Fletcher has only made one mistake, prospect development is a success, and Tortorella is an offensive genius, why are the Flyers ranked 26th in goal production?

They enter the zone. Then the grinding begins. I called this in the offseason and you refused to believe me. I've actually watched a lot of Tortorella hockey for many years now, I am not sure you have based on the way you mischaracterized him all summer.

 

[deadhead]

If Fletcher has only made one mistake, prospect development is a success, and Tortorella is an offensive genius, why are the Flyers ranked 26th in goal production?

They enter the zone. Then the grinding begins. I called this in the offseason and you refused to believe me. I've actually watched a lot of Tortorella hockey for many years now, I am not sure you have based on the way you mischaracterized him all summer.

Every good team grinds, the average for clean zone entries is somewhere around 50% or less.
And a lot of those clean entries are due to turnovers, or shift changes where the defense isn't set in the neutral zone or the blue line.
There aren't that many players skilled enough to skate through traffic, elude D-men at the blue line and retain possession.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Every good team grinds, the average for clean zone entries is somewhere around 50% or less.
And a lot of those clean entries are due to turnovers, or shift changes where the defense isn't set in the neutral zone or the blue line.
There aren't that many players skilled enough to skate through traffic, elude D-men at the blue line and retain possession.

Good teams are aggressive on offense rather than safe. They try to replicate the zone-entry rush in-zone. They don't just get pucks deep and try to outgrind everyone. They let skilled players use their skills.

I don't understand why you disagree with Tortorella when he tells you he doesn't understand offense these days, then coaches like it's 2012.

 

[macleish1974]

Good teams are aggressive on offense rather than safe. They try to replicate the zone-entry rush in-zone. They don't just get pucks deep and try to outgrind everyone. They let skilled players use their skills.

I don't understand why you disagree with Tortorella when he tells you he doesn't understand offense these days, then coaches like it's 2012.

Egads Beef, you set me up so easy.........nah not 2012 but like it's 1999.........

 

[renberg]

There's something wrong with it when it comes at the expense of other areas of their game.

I get that. It doesn’t have to be a one off thing. Unfortunately things get into the media that the Flyers PTB are upset with the defense played by player X and want him to focus on that to the detriment of their overall game.
It’s dumb since the criticism of player X just seems to escalate from there. It moves from ripping his defense to his play in front of the net; in the corners; lack of IQ; poor skating ability and on it goes. It makes one wonder why they drafted the player if they had so many holes in their game?

 

[Curufinwe]

As a 4th liner he is, Willman is faster than Lycksell, problem is he lacks skill to play up the lineup and the strength to be effective in a forechecker role.

When he was Lycksell's age, Willman was scoring 6 points in 36 games for Brown.

They're not similar levels of player at all.

 

[Rebels57]

Every single skilled prospect they get has to go through their attempts to turn them into grinders. All of them. This goes above Tortorella. He's just one aspect of the development process, and hardly the most important one. I don't know how many times I need to say this, but Tortorella is not running the team. What do you think they're doing when they whine about size and try to get everyone to bulk up? When they punish players for scoring too much and say they need to focus on defense (an idea Tortorella has agreed with)?

They obsess over perceived weaknesses. They obsess over defense. They do not prioritize offensive creativity at all. Once more I wonder what you're even paying attention to if you can't spy these years-long trends where words and actions agree.

Look who their Player Development coachs are...

 

[BringBackHakstol]

I think Deady is going to short circuit soon. I feel like I can smell the smoke burning from his direction

 

[deadhead]

When he was Lycksell's age, Willman was scoring 6 points in 36 games for Brown.

They're not similar levels of player at all.

As usual, you miss the point.
Lycksell on the 4th line with Brown isn't going to do much scoring, so he'd better be an effective forechecker.
And that's not his strength. For the same reason Willman was mediocre at it in the NHL.