Prospect Info: Phantoms (AHL), Reading Royals (ECHL), NCAA, Jrs., Int'l, etc. [The Final 2022, First 2023 Edition]

[deadhead]

Brink had another goal, so did Brooks.
Sandstrom stopped 35 of 36, another start then bring him up and showcase him.
Young, cheap goalies have value.

 

[Magua]

Foerster had a shitty D+2 year in every way, but I felt pretty confident it was mulligan worthy. The last 6 months have him back on age appropriate course. Wisdom was never wildly skilled and productive minus that out of nowhere AHL sample, and they traded up for a mid rounder (a weird Fletcher special instead of volume picking). But he’s got plenty of time to carve out a depth role, plus time has felt warped the last 2 years. He’s not a bum.

But it’s like certain people never learn the lesson of counting their chickens before they hatch. We did this with the best rated prospect pool in the NHL — this is bottom 10-15. It’s not just Wisdom.

I’ll just add that the Flyers thought Tuomaala of all people (!) was AHL ready. They felt themselves big time after that weird Covid AHL season. All these guys should’ve just immediately gone to the CHL the next year. I’ll be saying the same come spring with the NCAA.

 

[deadhead]

I don't think anyone saw Wisdom as more than a bottom six forward, but that's fine for a 4th rd pick.
He's got snarl, decent skater and some skill.
Missing almost a full season, and a slow start coming off a shoulder injury has held him back.

Foerster concerns me more, I haven't seen a top six NHL player watching him this season, Lycksell stood out more (though he's 3 years older, he's also adjusting to NA ice). The skating needs work and he's not that dynamic, skilled but I want to see him flash something special. But he had 24 AHL games two years ago, and 35 AHL/CHL/WJC games last year, so he's missed a full year of development. So there's no reason to panic, if he needs another season in the AHL to hit his stride, so be it.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Brink had another goal, so did Brooks.
Sandstrom stopped 35 of 36, another start then bring him up and showcase him.
Young, cheap goalies have value.

What would be his value? He will not be showcased in any way. The coach clearly doesn't trust him that much.

Foerster had a shitty D+2 year in every way, but I felt pretty confident it was mulligan worthy. The last 6 months have him back on age appropriate course. Wisdom was never wildly skilled and productive minus that out of nowhere AHL sample, and they traded up for a mid rounder (a weird Fletcher special instead of volume picking). But he’s got plenty of time to carve out a depth role, plus time has felt warped the last 2 years. He’s not a bum.

But it’s like certain people never learn the lesson of counting their chickens before they hatch. We did this with the best rated prospect pool in the NHL — this is bottom 10-15. It’s not just Wisdom.

I’ll just add that the Flyers thought Tuomaala of all people (!) was AHL ready. They felt themselves big time after that weird Covid AHL season. All these guys should’ve just immediately gone to the CHL the next year. I’ll be saying the same come spring with the NCAA.

That was more on the player. Flyers caved and let him start there, not so sure they believed he was AHL ready. Either way they botched his development that year,

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Wisdom lost a bunch of time due to injury and COVID (28 AHL games two years ago, 54 OHL games last year rehabbing his shoulder), and there's a logjam with everyone healthy.
When the Flyers trade a few players next month, call-ups will open opportunities to play.
Meanwhile he logs a lot of ECHL minutes.
He's 20 and a July birthday, it's not the end of the world.

It isnt the end of the world. and will benefit him. Point is you have these players set on playing on the flyers. Guess he wont be one of those getting that end of year look!!!

Is that Millman guy still alive and well?

 

[VladDrag]

I don't think anyone saw Wisdom as more than a bottom six forward, but that's fine for a 4th rd pick.
He's got snarl, decent skater and some skill.
Missing almost a full season, and a slow start coming off a shoulder injury has held him back.

Foerster concerns me more, I haven't seen a top six NHL player watching him this season, Lycksell stood out more (though he's 3 years older, he's also adjusting to NA ice). The skating needs work and he's not that dynamic, skilled but I want to see him flash something special. But he had 24 AHL games two years ago, and 35 AHL/CHL/WJC games last year, so he's missed a full year of development. So there's no reason to panic, if he needs another season in the AHL to hit his stride, so be it.

How long does it take to adjust to NA ice in your eyes?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Wisdom lost a bunch of time due to injury and COVID (28 AHL games two years ago, 54 OHL games last year rehabbing his shoulder), and there's a logjam with everyone healthy.
When the Flyers trade a few players next month, call-ups will open opportunities to play.
Meanwhile he logs a lot of ECHL minutes.
He's 20 and a July birthday, it's not the end of the world.

You were proposing he'd be in the NHL as part of the revolving door that doesn't exist.

 

[deadhead]

How long does it take to adjust to NA ice in your eyes?

I'd say about half a season or so for most players, the highly talented can out skate their mistakes while they learn, the rest seem to need some adjustment time. Lindblom had 141 regular and 30 PO games in the SHL before he came over, 54 regular and 11 PO games in the AHL before he was recalled. Didn't show a lot in 23 games, 2-4 6, and scoreless in 4 PO games. The next season won a starting job and looked like a potential top six forward before cancer hit.

Lycksell had 211 SHL games, but only 10 PO games before he came over, breakout season at 22. Has played 22 AHL games this season.

Ginning had 216 regular SHL games, 34 PO games

Andrae has only played 82 SHL games, 56 Allsvenskan, 2 SHL PO, 10 Allsvenskan PO games. So he's relatively inexperienced for a SHL player, which is why I expect him in the AHL next season for at least half the year.

 

[CutOnDime97]

That was more on the player. Flyers caved and let him start there, not so sure they believed he was AHL ready. Either way they botched his development that year,

Not really up to the player if he's ready to play in the AHL or not. Can players decide if they are NHL-ready too?

 

[Curufinwe]

You were proposing he'd be in the NHL as part of the revolving door that doesn't exist.

Quite preposterous to think Wisdom would be on the Flyers when 23 year old Lycksell can't get a real shot despite averaging a point per game in the AHL.

Deslauriers 42 games
MacEwen 38 games
Brown 23 games (of 26 since he came off IR)

Laczynski 19 games (2 AHL games)
Bellows 12 games (11 AHL games)
Willman 9 games (16 AHL games)
Cates 5 games (28 AHL games)
Lycksell 3 games (22 AHL games)
Hodgson 1 game (23 AHL games)

 

[deadhead]

The only slot for Lycksell right now would be the 4th line, which doesn't fit his skill set, especially with Brown at center.
He's not playing over Farabee, JVR or Laughton at LW. Or TK, Tippett and Allison at RW (where he looked uncomfortable).
So he's better off in the AHL until JVR gets moved.

Wisdom has a skill set that would work just fine on a 4th line, same with Desnoyers, both have a lot of experience in defense first/PK roles. But there's no reason to rush them, both could use AHL time to polish their offense.

Laczynski can't stay healthy, he'll probably play a few AHL games when he returns to work on his conditioning.
Bellows is an odd duck, good metrics but zero points in 12 games, bad news when scoring is your calling card.
Willman is an example where speed isn't enough in the bottom six, you need enough strength to win board battles if you're not offensively gifted.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The only slot for Lycksell right now would be the 4th line, which doesn't fit his skill set, especially with Brown at center.
He's not playing over Farabee, JVR or Laughton at LW. Or TK, Tippett and Allison at RW (where he looked uncomfortable).
So he's better off in the AHL until JVR gets moved.

Wisdom has a skill set that would work just fine on a 4th line, same with Desnoyers, both have a lot of experience in defense first/PK roles. But there's no reason to rush them, both could use AHL time to polish their offense.

Laczynski can't stay healthy, he'll probably play a few AHL games when he returns to work on his conditioning.
Bellows is an odd duck, good metrics but zero points in 12 games, bad news when scoring is your calling card.
Willman is an example where speed isn't enough in the bottom six, you need enough strength to win board battles if you're not offensively gifted.

Building for role/fit is building for failure.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Not really up to the player if he's ready to play in the AHL or not. Can players decide if they are NHL-ready too?

He flat out refused/ did not want to play in juniors. So yeah he made the call.

 

[Curufinwe]

The only slot for Lycksell right now would be the 4th line, which doesn't fit his skill set, especially with Brown at center.

Oh, right... roles.

I guess roles don't apply in Seattle where they play Donato, Sprong and Geekie for 9-10 minutes a night on their 4th line and get great production out of them.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

www.naturalstattrick.com

 

[deadhead]

It would be one thing if you had a healthy Laczynski and Allison pushed down to the 4th line by Brink.
But it's a waste of time to play Lycksell with Brown and MacEwen.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It would be one thing if you had a healthy Laczynski and Allison pushed down to the 4th line by Brink.
But it's a waste of time to play Lycksell with Brown and MacEwen.

You said those two would never block youth. Now you're defending their very existence blocking youth. Not only are their slots blocked, but so are any spots adjacent to them. Great stuff. What a rebuild. Awesome development.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

You said those two would never block youth. Now you're defending their very existence blocking youth. Not only are their slots blocked, but so are any spots adjacent to them. Great stuff. What a rebuild. Awesome development.

The GM is making a choice to keep them over whoever. Don't think Chuck looks at as blocking in any way. I myself have n issue with Ollie in the AHL for now.

When Tanner is healthy then can roll out a diff look 4th line with him, Ollie, Allison/Brink. Now will they? Highly unlikely.

Part of me hopes they keep winning just to be entertained as they turn into buyers.

 

[deadhead]

Playing another 20 AHL games after the player showed he wasn't ready isn't exactly being "blocked."
You're obsessed with rushing players to the NHL, then make excuses when prospects you like don't immediately perform.
The Pens have consistently marinated their prospects, even Guentzel after he tore up the NCAA.
Doesn't seem to have hurt their development, but it has allowed them to hit the ice skating when they're called up.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Playing another 20 AHL games after the player showed he wasn't ready isn't exactly being "blocked."
You're obsessed with rushing players to the NHL, then make excuses when prospects you like don't immediately perform.
The Pens have consistently marinated their prospects, even Guentzel after he tore up the NCAA.
Doesn't seem to have hurt their development, but it has allowed them to hit the ice skating when they're called up.

Your claim that he cannot be in the NHL because of the presence of a couple slobs is the very definition of blocked.

You are obsessed with defending a development prospect that yields constant disappointment. The Pens value skill. The Flyers value grinding, futility, and delighting in punishing players. The teams are not comparable.

 

[deadhead]

Your claim that he cannot be in the NHL because of the presence of a couple slobs is the very definition of blocked.

You are obsessed with defending a development prospect that yields constant disappointment. The Pens value skill. The Flyers value grinding, futility, and delighting in punishing players. The teams are not comparable.

Repeating nonsense doesn't make it true.

Hextall did like grinders in the middle rounds, he drafted a bunch of them. And kept VdV around.
Fletcher/Flahr have their faults, but that mindset isn't one of them.

Brodzinski (7th), Wisdom (4th), some big defensive D-men, Samson (6th), Zanetti (4th), McDonald (6th).
That's not exactly prioritizing "grinders."

MacEwen replaced NAK, grinder for grinder.
Brown, waiver wire pickup.
Deslauriers.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Repeating nonsense doesn't make it true.

Hextall did like grinders in the middle rounds, he drafted a bunch of them. And kept VdV around.
Fletcher/Flahr have their faults, but that mindset isn't one of them.

Brodzinski (7th), Wisdom (4th), some big defensive D-men, Samson (6th), Zanetti (4th), McDonald (6th).
That's not exactly prioritizing "grinders."

MacEwen replaced NAK, grinder for grinder.
Brown, waiver wire pickup.
Deslauriers.

That mindset is absolutely one of their infinite flaws. It's one of their biggest problems, because they are so devoted to obsolete ideas about role and fit. Have you not paid attention to any of their words and matching actions? Taking skill players and trying to turn them into defensively-minded grinders is the only way they can become partially aroused.

 

[deadhead]

Who has been turned into a defensive minded grinder?

Torts stresses play off the puck, that's about being responsible, he has said he doesn't expect physical play out of players like Frost, he expected them to back check and use their sticks to break up plays (i.e. move your feet). No hanging in the neutral zone and leaving the team playing 4 against 5 in the D-zone. Frost responded by playing better defense, and gee, it didn't stifle his offense at all.

He does stress winning board battles at both ends, but that's less about "grinding" than puck possession.

 

[Curufinwe]

It would be one thing if you had a healthy Laczynski and Allison pushed down to the 4th line by Brink.
But it's a waste of time to play Lycksell with Brown and MacEwen.

You were totally fine with MacEwen playing in the top 9 when Torts was doing that earlier this season, but now it would be a "waste of time" for Lycksell to play on a line with him.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Who has been turned into a defensive minded grinder?

Torts stresses play off the puck, that's about being responsible, he has said he doesn't expect physical play out of players like Frost, he expected them to back check and use their sticks to break up plays (i.e. move your feet). No hanging in the neutral zone and leaving the team playing 4 against 5 in the D-zone. Frost responded by playing better defense, and gee, it didn't stifle his offense at all.

He does stress winning board battles at both ends, but that's less about "grinding" than puck possession.

Every single skilled prospect they get has to go through their attempts to turn them into grinders. All of them. This goes above Tortorella. He's just one aspect of the development process, and hardly the most important one. I don't know how many times I need to say this, but Tortorella is not running the team. What do you think they're doing when they whine about size and try to get everyone to bulk up? When they punish players for scoring too much and say they need to focus on defense (an idea Tortorella has agreed with)?

They obsess over perceived weaknesses. They obsess over defense. They do not prioritize offensive creativity at all. Once more I wonder what you're even paying attention to if you can't spy these years-long trends where words and actions agree.

 

[deadhead]

You were totally fine with MacEwen playing in the top 9 when Torts was doing that earlier this season, but now it would be a "waste of time" for Lycksell to play on a line with him.

I wasn't "fine" with it, at the time there weren't a lot of options (Allison injured) and MacEwen wasn't terrible in that role, he can be the guy to do the dirty work, he's an excellent forechecker and unlike Deslauriers, can actually puck handle to some extent - he just can't finish to save his life.

It would be a waste for Lycksell b/c he needs a center to feed him the puck, he's not going to drive play like Tippett or Allison, he's really not cut out to be a forechecker, he should be matched with skilled linemates.