Prospect Info: Phantoms (AHL), Reading Royals (ECHL), NCAA, Jrs., Int'l, etc. [The Final 2022, First 2023 Edition]

[Beef Invictus]

Yeah, because a CEO is going to come in and publicly insult people who have been a huge part of an organization's history.

Who said he had to insult them? Drop the strawman.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Who said he had to insult them? Drop the strawman.

Hilferty has had a hugely successful business career based on his ability to make connections and knack for salesmanship.

When he's asked about the future of several huge Flyers' alumni, of course he's going to compliment them and recognize their history with the organization, before gently saying they'll provide input "when asked" (a/k/a, they will not be interfering with management).

That's how it works.

What you are asking for is for Hilferty to have said publicly that these famous franchise alumni will no longer be part of any team decisions in any fashion, thereby insulting them and implying they've been meddling and are to blame for the team's struggles.

Yeah, that's not going to happen. Nor should it if you are a CEO with any business and interpersonal savvy, which Hilferty obviously possesses.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Hilferty has had a hugely successful business career based on his ability to make connections and knack for salesmanship.

When he's asked about the future of several huge Flyers' alumni, of course he's going to compliment them and recognize their history with the organization, before gently saying they'll provide input "when asked" (a/k/a, they will not be interfering with management).

That's how it works.

What you are asking for is for Hilferty to have said publicly that these famous franchise alumni will no longer be part of any team decisions in any fashion, thereby insulting them and implying they've been meddling and are to blame for the team's struggles.

Yeah, that's not going to happen. Nor should it if you are a CEO with any business and interpersonal savvy, which Hilferty obviously possesses.

No, he did not have to lavish praise on them and keep them. He could have done this neat thing in the middle where he thanks them for their work and fires all of them, saying it's time for a new direction.

That's how good management trying to move into a better future would work. We don't have that. We have more of the same.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

No, he did not have to lavish praise on them and keep them. He could have done this neat thing in the middle where he thanks them for their work and fires all of them, saying it's time for a new direction.

That's how good management trying to move into a better future would work. We don't have that. We have more of the same.

No, that's not how a savvy businessman operates -- by openly and publicly "firing" some of an organization's most famous and revered historical alumni, when it's completely unnecessary.

He handled it perfectly. Praised them, while softly indicating they would not be interfering with or part of the front office.

You just have a gigantic axe to grind with Bob Clarke and want to see him publicly humiliated. You can pretend it's otherwise, but I don't believe you.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No, that's not how a savvy businessman operates -- by openly and publicly "firing" some of an organization's most famous and revered historical alumni, when it's completely unnecessary.

He handled it perfectly. Praised them, while softly indicating they would not be interfering with or part of the front office.

You just have a gigantic axe to grind with Bob Clarke and want to see him publicly humiliated. You can pretend it's otherwise, but I don't believe you.

No he strongly indicated they're still going to be here and involved.

A savvy businessman talking over a horribly mismanaged business doesn't keep all the mismanagement around while pathetically slobbering all over them. That's the opposite of savvy. That's incompetence.

Why do you think incompetence is good? You really love it for some reason. See: your love affair with Fletcher.

 

[mr4tno]

No, that's not how a savvy businessman operates -- by openly and publicly "firing" some of an organization's most famous and revered historical alumni, when it's completely unnecessary.

He handled it perfectly. Praised them, while softly indicating they would not be interfering with or part of the front office.

You just have a gigantic axe to grind with Bob Clarke and want to see him publicly humiliated. You can pretend it's otherwise, but I don't believe you.

Those three individuals have caused me so much "torture" with their back-ass-wards thinking that public humiliation of them is what I want now. Plus, as long as they are around, Flyer's fan can never rest that the organization has turned a corner in their archaic thinking.

 

[deadhead]

Those three individuals have caused me so much "torture" with their back-ass-wards thinking that public humiliation of them is what I want now. Plus, as long as they are around, Flyer's fan can never rest that the organization has turned a corner in their archaic thinking.

Well, the British used to shoot Admirals for failure in battle, but that's no longer permitted.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/all-notices/content/348

 

[captainpaxil]

You can't say this team is evidence torts hates skill as the few skilled players we have are flourishing. Tk had a career year tippet seems to have put it together and frost had a much better second half than first. Now none of these are on a top line when we're contending but that's on Fletcher not torts.

He got them to do what I wanted them to do which was suck at full speed. We're going to suck again next year. Probably finish a little lower in the lottery but I'm confident the process has begun.

Torts is a bit like Larry brown where it's about getting guys to play the right way. Now getting the right guys is another matter

 

[Beef Invictus]

You can't say this team is evidence torts hates skill as the few skilled players we have are flourishing. Tk had a career year tippet seems to have put it together and frost had a much better second half than first. Now none of these are on a top line when we're contending but that's on Fletcher not torts.

He got them to do what I wanted them to do which was suck at full speed. We're going to suck again next year. Probably finish a little lower in the lottery but I'm confident the process has begun.

Torts is a bit like Larry brown where it's about getting guys to play the right way. Now getting the right guys is another matter

This only works if you ignore how Tortorella has talked about/treated the average skill players. Thriving despite him.

Tortorella's idea of the right way is loser hockey. He has no understanding of the game anymore. But it perfectly fits what the Flyers want and have wanted for a long time. Maybe someday enough people can die or retire that the team will remember you win by scoring.

 

[dats81]

Elliot Desnoyers just set the record for most goals by a Rookie with the Phantoms by scoring his 23rd of the season.
... just in case anyone still following how the kids are progressing down there...

 

[mr4tno]

Elliot Desnoyers just set the record for most goals by a Rookie with the Phantoms by scoring his 23rd of the season.
... just in case anyone still following how the kids are progressing down there...

And they lost to the last place team. Forester putting up a big goose egg but at least he was -4. Andrae was -3. The future indeed looks bright

 

[Beef Invictus]

Why am I watching Lemieux and Bellows instead of Desnoyers, anyway?

 

[deadhead]

Clinched a PO spot, probably an subconscious letdown.
Attard and Brink had good games.

This is where summer matters for some guys.

Brink has to get 100% and keep working on his skating.
Foerster also needs to keep doing skating work.
Desnoyers needs to get stronger, his role will require him to do a lot of "dirty" work in the corners and along the boards.
Zamula needs to develop a cheesesteak fetish.

Guys like Attard and Ginning need to work on positioning, but that really is hard to do until TC, you can watch film but you need to out there practicing and playing to improve in this area.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Clinched a PO spot, probably an subconscious letdown.
Attard and Brink had good games.

This is where summer matters for some guys.

Brink has to get 100% and keep working on his skating.
Foerster also needs to keep doing skating work.
Desnoyers needs to get stronger, his role will require him to do a lot of "dirty" work in the corners and along the boards.
Zamula needs to develop a cheesesteak fetish.

Guys like Attard and Ginning need to work on positioning, but that really is hard to do until TC, you can watch film but you need to out there practicing and playing to improve in this area.

Guys work together and with coaching programs in the summer to do positional work and game building of all sorts all the time. They do not need to wait until team camp. TC isn't as important and definitive as you pretend.

 

[Appleyard]

They have some solid prospects... but the issue is really (top 5 guys under 24 in org at Fwd and D):

Gauthier: Likely ~80 point winger upside
Farabee: Likely ~75 point 2-way winger upside
Foerster: Likely ~70 point winger upside
Brink: Likely ~65-70 point winger upside
Frost: Likely ~55 point 2C upside

(then Cates, Kaplan, Lycksell, Desnoyers who all look like can be 3rd liners... and a very good one in Cates case)

York: Likely #2 upside
Andrae: Likely #3 upside
Zamula: Likely #4 upside
Attard: Likely #5 upside
Samson: Likely #5 upside

The TWO most important pieces for a contender are missing... and the odds of more than ~6 of those guys hitting those heights are not high.

They need a 1C and a 1D and good ones. Maybe they can get a 1C this draft if very lucky. I guess maybe ~40% chance that Smith/Moore turn into that. Albeit more like an ~85 point C in current climate (more in Smiths case if hits) and not a superstar.


If they were being as sensible as possible they would probably move Provorov, Konecny and Laughton this summer while value very high/still solid.
And try to offload Hayes, TDA, Risto.
Dangle Sanheim too and move depending on return.

Get 1sts and try to package for guys with high upside from contenders who have holes.

Because unless Couturier comes back like his previous self right away, and Konecny hits another gear to become a 90+ point guy, and someone somehow becomes a 1D... they have no chance of contending for 3+ years even if all the kids hit. Because they will still have 1-2 gaping holes vs contenders.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Clinched a PO spot, probably an subconscious letdown.
Attard and Brink had good games.

This is where summer matters for some guys.

Brink has to get 100% and keep working on his skating.
Foerster also needs to keep doing skating work.
Desnoyers needs to get stronger, his role will require him to do a lot of "dirty" work in the corners and along the boards.
Zamula needs to develop a cheesesteak fetish.

Guys like Attard and Ginning need to work on positioning, but that really is hard to do until TC, you can watch film but you need to out there practicing and playing to improve in this area.

Positioning is one of Ginning’s strengths.

Lappy praised Ginning for helping allow Attard to take chances while covering for his mistakes, & said he does a lot of subtle good things defensively that you may not notice during the game, but he notices when he breaks down game video.

Compared Ginning to Justin Braun, but with better puck skills.

Source: 4/12/23 Flyers Daily podcast, Lappy interview w/ Myrtetus.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The unfortunate thing is that Lappy is a bad source.

 

[VladDrag]

They have some solid prospects... but the issue is really (top 5 guys under 24 in org at Fwd and D):

Gauthier: Likely ~80 point winger upside
Farabee: Likely ~75 point 2-way winger upside
Foerster: Likely ~70 point winger upside
Brink: Likely ~65-70 point winger upside
Frost: Likely ~55 point 2C upside

I have to be honest with you, I feel like you're off here with lots of these players likely projections. Maybe it's the way you define likely. I view that as the center of the bell curve for each player.

I feel like Gauthier as a likely 80 point winger is very high, I would put him more around the 60 point area as 'likely', and 80-point as fortunate. I could see it happening, but I don't think it's likely.

Farabee: really depends on who he plays with, but if he was playing 1LW with a 1C and 1RW, (say a healthy couts and TK) I could see 75 points.

Foerster - I can't see a likely 70 point winger, I see something more along the lines of a 50-60 point type guy. 70 isn't out of the question, but I would put the likelihood at less than 20%.

Brink: Jury is out on him. I honestly have no idea what's likely for him. I wouldn't be shocked at a 70 point guy, but I don't know the likelihood of that at this point.

Frost: I am okay with expecting 55 points from Frost, I get the rationale. But I am honestly hoping for more. Injuries certainly derailed the first few pro years, and he's finally getting some time with real skill guys. I expect he comes into next season pegged for a huge breakout year. 50-60 points is the expectation, but I am hoping for closer to 70.

I also like Kaplan as well, only seen 3-4 games of him tho.

 

[VladDrag]

York: Likely #2 upside
Andrae: Likely #3 upside
Zamula: Likely #4 upside
Attard: Likely #5 upside
Samson: Likely #5 upside

(I didn't mean to post without replying to this either).

I think York is likely to be a very good 3, maybe a 2 with the right partner, but again how are we defining likely here.

Andrae: Haven't seen enough for a full opinion.

Zamula: I would say 4 is reasonable.

Attard: 5 is okay, I would say more of a 6 kind of guy. I don't like him too much.

Samson: Not seen enough to comment.

In general, I think they are missing a 1C and another top line winger, even with TK staying around. I also think they are missing a 1D and maybe another 3-4 defender.

 

[wasup]

The unfortunate thing is that Lappy is a bad source.

He was one of Hodgson's biggest pushers .

 

[Appleyard]

I have to be honest with you, I feel like you're off here with lots of these players likely projections. Maybe it's the way you define likely. I view that as the center of the bell curve for each player.

I feel like Gauthier as a likely 80 point winger is very high, I would put him more around the 60 point area as 'likely', and 80-point as fortunate. I could see it happening, but I don't think it's likely.

Farabee: really depends on who he plays with, but if he was playing 1LW with a 1C and 1RW, (say a healthy couts and TK) I could see 75 points.

Foerster - I can't see a likely 70 point winger, I see something more along the lines of a 50-60 point type guy. 70 isn't out of the question, but I would put the likelihood at less than 20%.

Brink: Jury is out on him. I honestly have no idea what's likely for him. I wouldn't be shocked at a 70 point guy, but I don't know the likelihood of that at this point.

Frost: I am okay with expecting 55 points from Frost, I get the rationale. But I am honestly hoping for more. Injuries certainly derailed the first few pro years, and he's finally getting some time with real skill guys. I expect he comes into next season pegged for a huge breakout year. 50-60 points is the expectation, but I am hoping for closer to 70.

I also like Kaplan as well, only seen 3-4 games of him tho.

Yeh, these are basically their upside/close to ceiling projections... like, if things go well and they hit the top ~15% or so of their upside. Hence why I think maybe at best only ~6 or so hit that.

 

[deadhead]

I see him more than a goal scorer, 30+ than a guy who accumulates points, but we'll see how he progresses at center. He could be a 40+ goal guy if he learns the nuances of positioning and finding open ice, he has an elite shot, even better than Foerster, who is a tier above TK and Tippett.

Brink??? Think it all comes down to his skating, should be a fireplug with quick hands as he fills out, but he has to skate well enough to get back and carry the puck, he's not a PF who's gonna compensate with size and strength.

Attard I think is underrated offensively, he's got 20 goal potential as a defensemen playing for Torts, who encourages his D-men to attack the O-zone. Whereas Provorov never progressed from his one good season as a goal scorer, you can see Attard improve steadily. Wicked shot, but he'll need a partner who can CYA.

Frost just doesn't seem to have "it," and that will keep him from the next level. He has skills, but I don't see the instincts to become an elite center.

Farabee, 42nd in pp/60 (5x5) from age 19-21, offseason to add strength and he may take the next step to elite status (top 20 scoring) at 23.

I think Cates can be a 2LW or 3C, he needs to get stronger, but he has great instincts and the best hands on the team in crowds.

Foerster depends on his center, smart, improved his skating, great shot, good vision, soft touch but nt an uber-athlete. But could put up big points with a top center b/c he'll be an excellent complementary player, but not a lead dog.

You add a couple top players, and everyone else looks a lot better. 1C and 1RHD.
They don't need to tank for five years, just accumulate assets, make one good pick and package picks and players for the right fit.

Add a 1C, Couts 2C, Frost 3C, Cates 2LW, Gauthier 1LW and so on.

 

[pit]

 

[Fire Tortorella]

Attard 20 goal potential???? There are 2 defensemen this season with 20 goals and a handful in the 15-20 range.

 

[Beef Invictus]

If Attard has 20 goal potential everyone should be fired for not using him.