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Prospect Info: Phantoms (AHL), Reading Royals (ECHL), NCAA, Jrs., Int'l, etc. [The Final 2022, First 2023 Edition]

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Fire Fletcher said:
Attard 20 goal potential???? There are 2 defensemen this season with 20 goals and a handful in the 15-20 range.
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He had 30 goals in the USHL, last two college seasons 21 goals in 64 games. 12 goals in 66 games in his first AHL season.

He's an exceptional shooter for a defenseman, and Torts encourages his D-men to attack the O-zone like a 4th forward. So it's certainly not a huge stretch.
 
It's not, given his history.

Attard has limitations, his history as a rover and less than ideal instincts means you'd want to partner him with a more defensively sound player. But his strength is he's an exceptional shooter for a defenseman.
 
Numbers don’t say so but I still think Foerster has the highest pure offensive upside in the system right now. Not sure what the overall impact will be but no one really matches his combination of shooting and playmaking abilities. As always, role will dictate what end of the projection he comes out on. Of course there is a universe where Gauthier’s better raw tools trump pure skill and we know he is going to get the minutes necessary to reach his upside.
 
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FLYguy3911 said:
Numbers don’t say so but I still think Foerster has the highest pure offensive upside in the system right now. Not sure what the overall impact will be but no one really matches his combination of shooting and playmaking abilities. As always, role will dictate what end of the projection he comes out on. Of course there is a universe where Gauthier’s better raw tools trump pure skill and we know he is going to get the minutes necessary to reach his upside.
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I could possibly agree with you by next year, because I really like Foerster, but I personally believe that Brink has the best playmaking skills not in the NHL right now. And I think his shot, while not Foerster's, is very good. His decisions are so good, too.

I really think that Brink has a bit of x-factor to him. He's been electric everywhere he goes. He knows how to score, and he knows how to setup. I'm not really counting this year for Brink, due to his hip injury. It takes time to come back from a core injury.
 
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deadhead said:
It's not, given his history.

Attard has limitations, his history as a rover and less than ideal instincts means you'd want to partner him with a more defensively sound player. But his strength is he's an exceptional shooter for a defenseman.
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Let's have some context.

Here is a list of Flyers dmen who have broken 20 goals:

Howe, 24, 1985-86
Howe, 20, 1982-83
Dailey, 21, 1977-78

That's it. That's the list. Adjusting for era and QOT, you are saying that Attard will have the best goal scoring season from the blue line the team has ever seen.

Still think that's reasonable and not an overhype? Care to adjust that prediction?
 
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Players 21 and under in the AHL:
Foerster 3rd in points (8th among U22)
Desnoyer 7th in points (14th among U22)
Players who are 21 and under in the AHL who scord 10+ points (55) - everyone was drafted.
 
VladDrag said:
I could possibly agree with you by next year, because I really like Foerster, but I personally believe that Brink has the best playmaking skills not in the NHL right now. And I think his shot, while not Foerster's, is very good. His decisions are so good, too.

I really think that Brink has a bit of x-factor to him. He's been electric everywhere he goes. He knows how to score, and he knows how to setup. I'm not really counting this year for Brink, due to his hip injury. It takes time to come back from a core injury.
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I’ve been a Brink believer. Still am and his playmaking chops are top notch. I just struggle to confidently predict his NHL upside because no one really looks like him at the NHL level. I think his skating issues have been overblown in the past, Foerster has his own, but it will still be a hurdle. I think Foerster is a bit more natural, slightly quicker decision maker, and he can use his frame to shield defenders to buy more time.
 
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I'll wait and see how Gauthier progresses in college next year, if he makes a big jump, he's the top prospect in the system and a potential elite player, if he just makes a modest improvement, then he'll still be a top six forward, but it becomes less likely he's an impact player. But even if he isn't a top six center, he should be a top forward with his size, speed and an elite shot.

As we've seen with Tippett, size, speed and shooting can make a player with average instincts productive. With Gauthier it's tricky b/c he was the sidekick to Cooley, and is adjusting to being "the man" at center, and BC isn't exactly packed with talent. So his second season at center will give a better sense of his upside.

The under the radar guy is Desnoyers, he slumped toward the end of the season, but overall had a fine AHL debut with 23 goals, only turned 21 in January. Year before he had 42 goals and 88 points in 61 games in the Q, and lead his team in scoring in the POs with 9 points in 5 games. Not bad for a "defense first" player. Got a chance to be a "poor man's" Cates.
 
2022-2023
Karlsson - 25G
Hamilton - 21G

2021-2022
Makar - 28G
Josi - 23G
Hedman - 20G

2020-2021
None

2019-2020
Werenski - 20G

2018-2019
Rielly - 20G

2017-2018
None

2016-2017
Burns - 29G

2015-2016
Burns - 27G
Ekman-Larsson - 21G
Giordano - 21G
Weber - 20G

2014-2015
Ekman-Larsson - 23G
Karlsson - 21G

2013-2014
Weber - 23G
Burns 22G
Byfuglien - 20G
Karlsson - 20G

2012-2013
Lockout not a full 82 game season

2011-2012
None

2010-2011
Byfuglien - 20G

2009-2010
None

That’s every 20+ goal season by a defensemen since 2009-2010, just to put actual data sample size together to further illustrate how absurd a comment that is in regards to Attard’s potential.
 
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LegionOfDoom91 said:
2022-2023
Karlsson - 25G
Hamilton - 21G

2021-2022
Makar - 28G
Josi - 23G
Hedman - 20G

2020-2021
None

2019-2020
Werenski - 20G

2018-2019
Rielly - 20G

2017-2018
None

2016-2017
Burns - 29G

2015-2016
Burns - 27G
Ekman-Larsson - 21G
Giordano - 21G
Weber - 20G

2014-2015
Ekman-Larsson - 23G
Karlsson - 21G

2013-2014
Weber - 23G
Burns 22G
Byfuglien - 20G
Karlsson - 20G

2012-2013
Lockout not a full 82 game season

2011-2012
None

2010-2011
Byfuglien - 20G

2009-2010
None

That’s every 20+ goal season by a defensemen since 2009-2010, just to put actual data sample size together to further illustrate how absurd a comment that is in regards to Attard’s potential.
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Nothing absurd about it. Attard is pretty unique, he shoots as well as any of those D-men. He's not the complete package, but he's probably most similar to Burns in that in some ways he's a forward playing defense. He's not going to be a Norris candidate, but given the green light Torts give D-men on offense, he could score a lot of goals for this team. TDA struggled this year and had 12 goals.

How the hell did Giordano end up scoring 21 goals!
 
Curufinwe said:
12 goals in 66 AHL games as a 23 year old who couldn't get near the defense of a bottom 10 NHL team.
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Not when he has studs like Braun, Seeler, Risto and TDA blocking him :sarcasm:
In all seriousness this doesn’t mean much considering how the Flyers use young players. Attard may or may not have a NHL career but considering how their development process is I would call it a win if he can be a marginal 6/7 guy.
 
deadhead said:
Nothing absurd about it. Attard is pretty unique, he shoots as well as any of those D-men. He's not the complete package, but he's probably most similar to Burns in that in some ways he's a forward playing defense. He's not going to be a Norris candidate, but given the green light Torts give D-men on offense, he could score a lot of goals for this team. TDA struggled this year and had 12 goals.

How the hell did Giordano end up scoring 21 goals!
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Everything about it is absurd. You are claiming Attard will be among the best goalscoring dmen.

You are talking about a guy with 12 goals in 66 AHL games. At age 24. Burns had 15 in the NHL at 22. Burns is one of the best dmen of this era. It's a completely nuts comparison.
 
BackToTheBrierePatch said:
Not when he has studs like Braun, Seeler, Risto and TDA blocking him :sarcasm:
In all seriousness this doesn’t mean much considering how the Flyers use young players. Attard may or may not have a NHL career but considering how their development process is I would call it a win if he can be a marginal 6/7 guy.
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He'll be a lot better than that. He's been solid paired with Ginning, a stay at home guy.
The problem for the Flyers is they have too many 2nd/3rd pair guys who have to be paired with the right guy.

York is the only 1st pair talent, and he's probably a #2, though he might be more, no one projected Slavin as a #1 when he entered the league. But everyone plays better with York, even though he's playing on his off side with limited experience.

The problem with both Provorov and Sanheim is they need a hand holding partner to be effective.
Risto was best with Seeler in a sheltered role, same with TDA.
Attard will probably be similar, give him a LHD who can CYA and he'll light the lamp on a regular basis.

Which is why I trade Provorov and add a veteran defense first RHD at low cost to buy time to develop a RHD or two. Someone like Braun at 30-31 years old.
 
If you’re scoring 20+ goals from the backend there’s a pretty good chance you’re gonna end up a Norris finalist if not outright winner like most of those guys were during this seasons. Hell the ones that did it multiple times three out of five of them are likely future HoFers in Karlsson, Burns, & Weber.

Girodano scored 20+ goals 7 seasons ago when he was considered one of the best overall defensemen in the league around those years. He’s like a 100 years old now & plays a defensive depth role but let’s not act like that was the norm for him during his career. He was a legit high end two way defender.
 
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LegionOfDoom91 said:
If you’re scoring 20+ goals from the backend there’s a pretty good chance you’re gonna end up a Norris finalist if not outright winner like most of those guys were during this seasons. Hell the ones that did it multiple times three out of five of them are likely future HoFers in Karlsson, Burns, & Weber.

Girodano scored 20+ goals 7 seasons ago when he was considered one of the best overall defensemen in the league around those years. He’s like a 100 years old now & plays a defensive depth role but let’s not act like that was the norm for him during his career. He was a legit high end two way defender.
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There are a lot of offense first D-men who score b/c they get their minutes in sheltered usage, offensive zone starts, off the ice against the oppenent's first line, lots of PP time.
Skjei 18
Morrissey 16
Montour 16
2021-22:
Carlson 17
Faulk 16
Ghost 14
 
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