I've seen O'Brien a few games and watched for him when he is on the ice. On the forecheck he is relentless, off the puck he is fine, once he gets the puck his brain shuts off.
Prospect Info: Phantoms (AHL), Reading Royals (ECHL), NCAA, Jrs., Int'l, etc. [The Final 2022, First 2023 Edition]
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Magua
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deadhead
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The only interesting comment was that they're working intensely with Toumaala, so they haven't given up on him.
Beef Invictus
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Working intensely with him is probably the problem.
CutOnDime97
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FLYguy3911
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LegionOfDoom91
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There’s actually potential NHL talent in the CHL opposed to Mestis.
Magua
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This is boring. We did this already. Multiple times. Fletcher directly passed up the CHL Player of the Year for this non-prospect, end of story. You're drooling and not in a good way right now.
LegionOfDoom91
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Real list of who’s who with drafted prospects who played in the Mestis this year.
CutOnDime97
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The Mestis Gretzky
Really though, what do you do with this guy. Can't crack a Liiga lineup and when he does he's a non-factor but clearly too good for the Finn AHL.
Really though, what do you do with this guy. Can't crack a Liiga lineup and when he does he's a non-factor but clearly too good for the Finn AHL.
Beef Invictus
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deadhead
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Tuomaala turned 20 in January, pretty standard for a CHL D+2 prospect.
There just aren't a lot of Finnish and Swedish prospects to start with, and the best soon come over to NA after they're drafted.
Here's the Allsvenskan list (tougher than Mestis, so you'd expect more prospects, some Finns come here to play):
Drafted the last three years.
Pasic - #189-2020
Nybeck - #115-2020
Ohgren - #19-2022
Ostlund - #16-2022
Magnusson - #211-2020
Persson - #85-2022
Sjoberg - #207-2021
Johansson - #74-2021
Nilsson - #134-2021
Jacobsson - #177 - 2021
Niederbach - #51-2020
Jansson D - #125-2022
Tarnstrom - #92-2020
Myrenberg D - #220-2021
Forsell - #201-2021
Lyckasen - #173-2020
Lekkerimaki - #15-2022
Ljungman - #154-2020
Odelius D - #65-2022
Nickl - #104-2020
Ekefjard - #192-2020
Lindewall - #200-2020
Notice there are (10) 2020 draftees, if Toumaala can't graduate to Liiga next year, I'd consider him a nonprospect like most of these players.
2022: (3) 1st rd, (2) top 100, (1) later in the draft
2021: (1) top 100, (5) later in the draft
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Magua
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No surprise the toe likes dark mode. A toe's life is dark mode.
Remember you asked Appleyard as well, and he shat on this? Mestis is not an NHL track at age 20, let alone for a 2nd rounder. It's barely an NHL track at age 18. What does Allsvenskan have to do with anything, when you admit it's a way better league? You're slurring things together to not make a point. Why are you going to such lengths to defend this Fletcher pick? Oh.
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Tripod
I hate this team
"I'll defer to Appleyard"
Then Appleyard tells him something he doesn't want to hear
"I'll wait 2 years..."
Then Appleyard tells him something he doesn't want to hear
"I'll wait 2 years..."
deadhead
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Toumaala basically lost a season, partially due to his own immaturity and overestimation of his readiness to play in a man's league.
Playing lights out in Mestis doesn't guarantee anything, but it's a good start toward getting back on track.
The league comparison data I've seen ranks it similar to the CHL and a cut below Allsvenskan.
So he has to build on this and show more at Liiga late this season or next season.
But it's not uncommon for young players to need a couple years to break out at Liiga or the SHL, Lycksell didn't until he was 22.
Now if he struggled in Mestis, yes, that would be bad news. But he has excelled, which is good news.
FLYguy3911
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When you score at a higher rate in the "Men's" league than the "Junior" league...something is up.
deadhead
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Meh, I just think it was Toumaala getting regular ice time in a scoring role and letting his talent take over.
At lower levels, and this includes the CHL, you can outskate your mistakes so defensive flaws aren't as obvious.
The difference between Liiga and the AHL is Liiga (like the SHL) is a professional league where coaches have to win to keep their jobs, the AHL is primarily a developmental league (with limits on veterans) where coaches have to balance development and winning.
So if Toumaala has serious flaws, a Liiga HC isn't going to be patient with him and let him work through them.
This is akin to JOB going to the BCHL, now he still had to go to the NCAA and show he was for real, but he did get back on track to some extent.
At lower levels, and this includes the CHL, you can outskate your mistakes so defensive flaws aren't as obvious.
The difference between Liiga and the AHL is Liiga (like the SHL) is a professional league where coaches have to win to keep their jobs, the AHL is primarily a developmental league (with limits on veterans) where coaches have to balance development and winning.
So if Toumaala has serious flaws, a Liiga HC isn't going to be patient with him and let him work through them.
This is akin to JOB going to the BCHL, now he still had to go to the NCAA and show he was for real, but he did get back on track to some extent.
Magua
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Liiga is probably the most accommodating league for teenagers. The Finns are really good at home-growing their players. Tuomaala was a mid-2nd round pick. The only other drafted players in Mestis this year are three 7th rounders, two 6th rounders, a 5th rounder. Three of those players have played 4 games combined; another, the 5th rounder, was an unsigned Canadian WHL player. 
Jani Nyman was the 49th overall pick last year. Comparable. This is how he did in Mestis his DRAFT YEAR at age 17, 1.5 months away from being a 2023 pick. Best performer by a mile on his Mestis team.
He went 49th overall putting those stats up in this "men's league." Tuomaala is 3 years older. Wouldn't you know, Nyman has 12 points in 25 Liiga games at age 18 -- while making the WJC over Tuomaala -- because that's how a normal development arc looks. His production, while sucking in u20s and Liiga, means nothing.
Jani Nyman was the 49th overall pick last year. Comparable. This is how he did in Mestis his DRAFT YEAR at age 17, 1.5 months away from being a 2023 pick. Best performer by a mile on his Mestis team.
He went 49th overall putting those stats up in this "men's league." Tuomaala is 3 years older. Wouldn't you know, Nyman has 12 points in 25 Liiga games at age 18 -- while making the WJC over Tuomaala -- because that's how a normal development arc looks. His production, while sucking in u20s and Liiga, means nothing.
Curufinwe
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How can any human being without the last name of Tuomaala be this committed to defending the potential of Tuomaala?
deadhead
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What's the big deal. Toumaala blew his 18 year old season, he's bounced back at a lower level in his 19 year old season, now we'll see if he can build on it. It's like some people here are invested in his failure.
It's always better when a prospect bounces back, doesn't guarantee anything, but at least having success at a lower level raises the possibility he might be able to produce at a higher level when he returns to Liiga in the future.
And there are lots of high picks who struggle for years in Liiga and the SHL. Every prospect has a different development path.
It's always better when a prospect bounces back, doesn't guarantee anything, but at least having success at a lower level raises the possibility he might be able to produce at a higher level when he returns to Liiga in the future.
And there are lots of high picks who struggle for years in Liiga and the SHL. Every prospect has a different development path.
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