Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
It hasn't been 2003 in a long time. Welcome to the cap era. Want a good team? Then maximize efficiency. Want to maximize efficiency? Roll 4 lines. Wanna roll 4 lines? 4th needs to do more than look "energetic."
Prospect Info: Phantoms (AHL), Reading Royals (ECHL), NCAA, Jrs., Int'l, etc. [The Fall 2022 Edition]
- Thread starter MiamiScreamingEagles
- Start date
-
Work is still on-going to rebuild the site styling and features. Please report any issues you may experience so we can look into it. Click Here for Updates
- Status
It hasn't been 2003 in a long time. Welcome to the cap era. Want a good team? Then maximize efficiency. Want to maximize efficiency? Roll 4 lines. Wanna roll 4 lines? 4th needs to do more than look "energetic."
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 52,222
- 22,701
How many teams have 12 "skilled" players?
And the Flyers don't have 3 lines you can play for 15 minutes.
TB uses their 4th line to stash specialists like Maroon. Flyers don't have that luxury.
If the 4th line can bottle up the opposing offense in their own zone with an aggressive forecheck, they can break even, it would be better if they could score a few goals - but it's still better than rolling a mediocre scoring line that leaks goals.
Down the road it would be better to roll a line like Desnoyers - Laczynski - Allison/Wisdom. If they develop and stay healthy.
But I don't want Foerster on the 4th line, or Lycksell, their skill set is better served in the top 9.
And the Flyers don't have 3 lines you can play for 15 minutes.
TB uses their 4th line to stash specialists like Maroon. Flyers don't have that luxury.
If the 4th line can bottle up the opposing offense in their own zone with an aggressive forecheck, they can break even, it would be better if they could score a few goals - but it's still better than rolling a mediocre scoring line that leaks goals.
Down the road it would be better to roll a line like Desnoyers - Laczynski - Allison/Wisdom. If they develop and stay healthy.
But I don't want Foerster on the 4th line, or Lycksell, their skill set is better served in the top 9.
VladDrag
Registered User
- Feb 6, 2018
- 6,616
- 16,815
No, YOU want NRG guys who'll fly around...
I want guys who will actually contribute to winning.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
My point is they won't be "just fine." The roster construction does not work. That roster deployment does not work. Your proposed "build for role" solution does not work, as proven thoroughly by Fletcher having the same outlook and the results it's produced. "Energy" cliches are useless. Meaningless. There's no point icing an "energy" 4th line with guys in the AHL who should be getting looked at.
The team should be aiming higher. You propose that they shouldn't.
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 52,222
- 22,701
Well, I'd prefer to have 12 elite offensive players myself, but I don't think that's going to happen in the near future.
Right now I'd be happy if they could come up with a couple legitimate centers and roll 3 lines that are respectable.
Lyksell might be a guy you could try there but I think frost has been a good example of the difference between having speed and playing at pace. Foerster to me still has room to grow in both areas.
That's why you quit looking at fricken stats as your guide . Watch the games over a longer period of time and look for guys driving play and pushing the pace . We seem to have guys down there putting up points on the PP but the 5 on 5 play is lacking .
I have 2 friends who's kids are playing in the AHL so I just fork up the 90 bucks for AHL tv . It keeps me involved in how their hockey is going not just stat watching them .
I don't know but there sure was not many fans their last night .
FLYguy3911
Sanheim Lover
- Oct 19, 2006
- 55,361
- 91,473
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 52,222
- 22,701
There is speed and there is skating.
Foerster will never have speed, which makes him ill-suited to a checking line, but he can improve his edge work and agility, and with his shot and vision be a solid offensive player.
MacEwen has size and speed but lacks agility and hands, he's improved and is no longer an offensive cipher, but on a good team, would never play above the 4th line for that reason.
Square pegs and round holes.
The one thing I see the Flyers lacking among forwards are the skill combinations of vision, hands and shot, someone who can take a pass in traffic, control it, avoid contact and get a good shot off in the danger areas. Too often, passes are bobbled or off-target, and players get checked or stick checked before they can shoot. Knock Hayes all you want, but he's our most dangerous offensive forward b/c he can shield the puck with his body, handle the puck in crowds, can see the open man and make a pass and has a plus shot.
Our speed/skill guys like Frost and TK aren't that agile, Frost starts but fails to finish too many plays, TK has improved but no one is going to confuse him with JG, Tippett is fast but plays "too fast," has to let the game slow down.
I've watched a couple Phantom games so far, but no one has "jumped out" as clearly too good for the AHL yet. Lycksell might be the closest. But even he's more of a speed, hustle guy rather than pure skill.
If he is the "chosen one," we should see significant improvement by the end of the college season - that's one of the hallmarks of elite prospects, they quickly climb the learning curve.
Foerster will never have speed, which makes him ill-suited to a checking line, but he can improve his edge work and agility, and with his shot and vision be a solid offensive player.
MacEwen has size and speed but lacks agility and hands, he's improved and is no longer an offensive cipher, but on a good team, would never play above the 4th line for that reason.
Square pegs and round holes.
The one thing I see the Flyers lacking among forwards are the skill combinations of vision, hands and shot, someone who can take a pass in traffic, control it, avoid contact and get a good shot off in the danger areas. Too often, passes are bobbled or off-target, and players get checked or stick checked before they can shoot. Knock Hayes all you want, but he's our most dangerous offensive forward b/c he can shield the puck with his body, handle the puck in crowds, can see the open man and make a pass and has a plus shot.
Our speed/skill guys like Frost and TK aren't that agile, Frost starts but fails to finish too many plays, TK has improved but no one is going to confuse him with JG, Tippett is fast but plays "too fast," has to let the game slow down.
I've watched a couple Phantom games so far, but no one has "jumped out" as clearly too good for the AHL yet. Lycksell might be the closest. But even he's more of a speed, hustle guy rather than pure skill.
If he is the "chosen one," we should see significant improvement by the end of the college season - that's one of the hallmarks of elite prospects, they quickly climb the learning curve.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
Hyperbolic strawman. Nobody is expecting 12 elite forwards. Ridiculous.
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 52,222
- 22,701
We don't have any elite forwards.
We also don't have 4 centers that can center a scoring line, in fact, we have zero.
We also don't have 4 centers that can center a scoring line, in fact, we have zero.
Curufinwe
Registered User
- Feb 28, 2013
- 57,455
- 46,347
You never said Hayes couldn't center a scoring line in 19-20, 20-21 or 21-22. And this season is by far the most productive of his entire career. So why can't Hayes center a scoring line now? Because dinoTorts says so?
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 52,222
- 22,701
Because while he's good on offense, he's struggling on defense.
Now if we had a veteran center on the wing who could swap on defense, but Laughton is more a forechecker than a defensive specialist.
So you could build a scoring line around Hayes, but it would struggle defensively against top lines, if you had a healthy Couts, you might live with him as your 2C.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
Why do you need to be good at defense to center a scoring line? The idea is that the line outscores the opposition.
If Hayes can't produce like this and center a scoring line then defense isn't the problem. The problem is probably his historic tendency to drag his linemates' production down.
If Hayes can't produce like this and center a scoring line then defense isn't the problem. The problem is probably his historic tendency to drag his linemates' production down.
Curufinwe
Registered User
- Feb 28, 2013
- 57,455
- 46,347
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 52,222
- 22,701
The problem is he's a 2C and asking him to outscore elite first lines is futile.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
Made more futile by him suppressing the offense of his linemates, which is happening again this year per a quick check of NST. When you're suppressing production around you, you'd have to be exceptionally good at defense to counter that and balance out not being elite offensively. It's a lot more complex than the Fletcherian "Just needs defense" refrain.
Did you see all of his updates? Hutson and Casey’s cards are hilarious.
Magua
Entirely Palatable Product
Looks like a winger profile.
I will say I did think he had more transition ability in the bag than his NTDP tracking data showed.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
I missed that. The transition rating is refreshing to see. Putting those ambidextrous golf skills to use I am sure
Fri.@7pm est on espn news channel, Boston university vs Boston collage hockey. For those who are intrested.
FLYguy3911
Sanheim Lover
- Oct 19, 2006
- 55,361
- 91,473
Watching and recording this game. What a joy to see entertaining hockey. And I can always watch the replay during Flyers games.
Magua
Entirely Palatable Product
Just finished the game. Both teams' goaltending was so bad that Fletcher had heart palpitations watching and Flahr had extra heart palpitations watching. 
To his credit, both of Gauthier's goals were nice, and they were in dangerous areas. They gave him 2 assists, but they were more generous/fortuitous than actual passes: one was a forecheck whack that came to a single defender in the zone who scored a horrific goal; the other was a total whiff shot that a BU player may have helped go in and I'm surprised wasn't unassisted.
I came away both nodding at his strengths and not really changing my mind whatsoever holistically. He doesn't really look like a center, and there was a lot of upright gliding and watching. He comes alive off the rush, and pretty much every play came off the rush. I don't know why he stays back on his heels so much when he's an athletic mover in stride; it doesn't help his short area quickness.
For a "power forward," he actually rarely had the puck in the o-zone cycle. Mostly off puck and rim plays. He had one very nice backdoor PP pass, his 2nd goal was a give and go, but otherwise no real pass generating or play controlling off his stick. Some more low % shots, not egregiously. I think he looks best when he's playing straight line and direct. He should be a good complimentary scorer, but I still don't see elite NHL talent, and maybe not at center.
To his credit, both of Gauthier's goals were nice, and they were in dangerous areas. They gave him 2 assists, but they were more generous/fortuitous than actual passes: one was a forecheck whack that came to a single defender in the zone who scored a horrific goal; the other was a total whiff shot that a BU player may have helped go in and I'm surprised wasn't unassisted.
I came away both nodding at his strengths and not really changing my mind whatsoever holistically. He doesn't really look like a center, and there was a lot of upright gliding and watching. He comes alive off the rush, and pretty much every play came off the rush. I don't know why he stays back on his heels so much when he's an athletic mover in stride; it doesn't help his short area quickness.
For a "power forward," he actually rarely had the puck in the o-zone cycle. Mostly off puck and rim plays. He had one very nice backdoor PP pass, his 2nd goal was a give and go, but otherwise no real pass generating or play controlling off his stick. Some more low % shots, not egregiously. I think he looks best when he's playing straight line and direct. He should be a good complimentary scorer, but I still don't see elite NHL talent, and maybe not at center.
How’d Hutson look thoughJust finished the game. Both teams' goaltending was so bad that Fletcher had heart palpitations watching and Flahr had extra heart palpitations watching.
To his credit, both of Gauthier's goals were nice, and they were in dangerous areas. They gave him 2 assists, but they were more generous/fortuitous than actual passes: one was a forecheck whack that came to a single defender in the zone who scored a horrific goal; the other was a total whiff shot that a BU player may have helped go in and I'm surprised wasn't unassisted.
I came away both nodding at his strengths and not really changing my mind whatsoever holistically. He doesn't really look like a center, and there was a lot of upright gliding and watching. He comes alive off the rush, and pretty much every play came off the rush. I don't know why he stays back on his heels so much when he's an athletic mover in stride; it doesn't help his short area quickness.
For a "power forward," he actually rarely had the puck in the o-zone cycle. Mostly off puck and rim plays. He had one very nice backdoor PP pass, his 2nd goal was a give and go, but otherwise no real pass generating or play controlling off his stick. Some more low % shots, not egregiously. I think he looks best when he's playing straight line and direct. He should be a good complimentary scorer, but I still don't see elite NHL talent, and maybe not at center.
- Status
Latest posts
-
-
-
Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XVI (Playoffs or Retool?)- Latest: SnowblindNYR
