Prospect Info: Phantoms (AHL), Reading Royals (ECHL), NCAA, Jrs., Int'l, etc. [The Fall 2022 Edition]

[mr4tno]

Then why would John Tortorella and Chuck Fletcher - two men whose livelihood is based on results and who have just a tad more experience in professional hockey - be playing those other fellows?

I'll defer to their judgement.

Because JT is, what 63 yo, with a 5-year guaranteed contract. This is his last hurrah, and he is guaranteed 4 more years of pay. And it is very clear that Fletcher has been given permission to screw up as much as possible without repercussions, as long as he maintains the Broad Street Bullies mystique

 

[deadhead]

Because JT is, what 63 yo, with a 5-year guaranteed contract. This is his last hurrah, and he is guaranteed 4 more years of pay. And it is very clear that Fletcher has been given permission to screw up as much as possible without repercussions, as long as he maintains the Broad Street Bullies mystique

If Torts doesn't care about the FO b/c he has complete job security and a comfy retirement (he had that before taking the job), why would he play Fletcher's favorites? Since he's already declared that this is a 4-5 year rebuild (he said they might not be finished before his contract runs out).

When you are playing a very inexperienced forward group, it makes sense to want to have experience on the blue line behind them.

 

[Beef Invictus]

If Torts doesn't care about the FO b/c he has complete job security and a comfy retirement (he had that before taking the job), why would he play Fletcher's favorites? Since he's already declared that this is a 4-5 year rebuild (he said they might not be finished before his contract runs out).

When you are playing a very inexperienced forward group, it makes sense to want to have experience on the blue line behind them.

Because that's all Fletcher gives him to play. Fletcher is the general manager

 

[macleish1974]

How in the actual flying f*** is brain dead Lappy still employed?

Easy....

His employers above him are brain dead too....

 

[BlackandOrange]

I see that Isaac Ratcliffe is pointless down with the Phantoms. They seem in a state of chaos to me. Anyone watching Lehigh that can tell me how his game has been?

 

[renberg]

Lappy is pretty much on his own with the Phantoms. No recognizable systems of play. Not the greatest equation for development.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

The Flyers don’t give a shit about their AHL team. This is not news.

 

[renberg]

The Flyers don’t give a shit about their AHL team. This is not news.

It certainly seems that way. I get not signing NHL- guys so that the club can win the Calder Cup. Still there has to be major emphasis on improving the game of the players that are there. There’s nothing that Lappy has done down there that shows that the players improve or that the club is competitive. There are guys down there with NHL potential who are wasting their time there.
Some one needs to go down there and kick ass to make the club productive. If not, then fold up the tent and admit that development is just not a Flyers thing.

 

[Strawberry Fields]

The Phantoms have been pretty irrelevant ever since the '05 Calder Cup save for a couple of the early years in Allentown. I think they missed the playoffs all five years they were in Glens Falls. Kind of a shame, it's always more fun when all three PA teams are competitive

 

[Beef Invictus]

The Flyers don’t give a shit about their AHL team. This is not news.

Fletcher didn't give a shit about Iowa either.

 

[Strawberry Fields]

Fletcher didn't give a shit about Iowa either.

To back Beef up, here's Iowa's results during Chuck's time as Minny's GM:

Now, their previous affiliate in Houston made the playoffs three of four times with Chuck as the Wild's GM, with a Cup final loss and two first round exits. But Iowa was notoriously atrocious for a good long while

 

[Magua]

To back Beef up, here's Iowa's results during Chuck's time as Minny's GM:

View attachment 604750

Now, their previous affiliate in Houston made the playoffs three of four times with Chuck as the Wild's GM, with a Cup final loss and two first round exits. But Iowa was notoriously atrocious for a good long while

Could it have something to do with feeling the effects of being a horrific drafter for a decade while also not believing in pick volume?

 

[Strawberry Fields]

Could it have something to do with feeling the effects of being a horrific drafter for a decade while also not believing in pick volume?

 

[deadhead]

Could it have something to do with feeling the effects of being a horrific drafter for a decade while also not believing in pick volume?

Or having an owner who pushed for TDL deals each year to get over the hump?

I always wonder when GMs trade a lot of assets at the TDL whether it's their choice or pressure from above (win or else).
TB was an exception, they had already been to the Finals when they started wheeling and dealing, trading late 1st rd picks for assets.

But in many cases, it's a team that's good but not elite trying to get over the hump through TDL trades.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Or having an owner who pushed for TDL deals each year to get over the hump?

I always wonder when GMs trade a lot of assets at the TDL whether it's their choice or pressure from above (win or else).
TB was an exception, they had already been to the Finals when they started wheeling and dealing, trading late 1st rd picks for assets.

But in many cases, it's a team that's good but not elite trying to get over the hump through TDL trades.

Seems pretty obvious that all those bad moves were Fletcher's idea. It's not like Leipold is ordering Guerin to be a moron now. Leipold is still the same guy, the main change is who the GM is.

Or do you truly believe that Fletcher has tumbled through his career without a scrap of agency in anything he has done? Why exactly would that be an appealing trait in a GM if it were somehow true?

 

[deadhead]

Seems pretty obvious that all those bad moves were Fletcher's idea. It's not like Leipold is ordering Guerin to be a moron now. Leipold is still the same guy, the main change is who the GM is.

Or do you truly believe that Fletcher has tumbled through his career without a scrap of agency in anything he has done? Why exactly would that be an appealing trait in a GM if it were somehow true?

Guerin has lost in the first round three straight years, and they're off to a slow start, you don't think he's feeling "win now" pressure?
Fletcher got them to 100+ points three times and the second round twice.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Guerin has lost in the first round three straight years, and they're off to a slow start, you don't think he's feeling "win now" pressure?
Fletcher got them to 100+ points three times and the second round twice.

Guerin is dealing with some incredibly huge salary cap issues post-Fletcher. And will be for a while. His predecessors being horrific gong-shows at their jobs is some pretty urgent context, I think. And guess who is running our show, and has established a terrible cap and prospect situation? Again?

 

[deadhead]

Guerin is dealing with some incredibly huge salary cap issues post-Fletcher. And will be for a while. His predecessors being horrific gong-shows at their jobs is some pretty urgent context, I think. And guess who is running our show, and has established a terrible cap and prospect situation? Again?

The prospect situation? Fletcher's been gone five years.

The cap? There's a hangover from a couple contracts (Parise and Suter, $14M), but if Guerin was actually rebuilding, it shouldn't matter, because rebuilding teams have a lot of cheap players.

In the case of Suter, he could have kept him, he's played 23 minutes a night for Dallas the last two years, buying him out was a mistake. Bought him room in 2021-22 but would have been a wash the next three years. And you would have kept a top D-man, instead of paying Goligoski $2M.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The prospect situation? Fletcher's been gone five years.

The cap? There's a hangover from a couple contracts (Parise and Suter, $14M), but if Guerin was actually rebuilding, it shouldn't matter, because rebuilding teams have a lot of cheap players.

In the case of Suter, he could have kept him, he's played 23 minutes a night for Dallas the last two years, buying him out was a mistake. Bought him room in 2021-22 but would have been a wash the next three years. And you would have kept a top D-man, instead of paying Goligoski $2M.

I'm talking about our prospect situation.


Remember when I laid out Fletcher's tenure in Minnesota? Looked at every one of his moves. He replied really, really heavily on the old buyout rules or bailout trades from his daddy's friends to salvage his constant awful contracts.

 

[Magua]

Or having an owner who pushed for TDL deals each year to get over the hump?

I always wonder when GMs trade a lot of assets at the TDL whether it's their choice or pressure from above (win or else).
TB was an exception, they had already been to the Finals when they started wheeling and dealing, trading late 1st rd picks for assets.

But in many cases, it's a team that's good but not elite trying to get over the hump through TDL trades.

So, Fletcher had to push for TDL deals and made bad deals and that's the explanation? Again, not shining a positive light!

He has 14 years as a general manager, with a history of never picking in volume and below average drafting. Surely he wasn't pushing for TDL all 14 years.

 

[deadhead]

He's a better drafter than Sakic, who basically only hit on very high picks, never found players outside the first round, missed on Bleakley #23, Jost #10, hit on Rantanen #10, Makar #4, Kaut #16?, Byram #4, Newhook #16?. Helps to inherit McKinnon #1, Landeskog #2, Duchene #3.

Drafting is harder than people think.

 

[Magua]

He's a better drafter than Sakic, who basically only hit on very high picks, never found players outside the first round, missed on Bleakley #23, Jost #10, hit on Rantanen #10, Makar #4, Kaut #16?, Byram #4, Newhook #16?. Helps to inherit McKinnon #1, Landeskog #2, Duchene #3.

Drafting is harder than people think.

Who brought up Sakic? This is a whataboutism. No, that team wasn't built on hitting many mid-late picks. They drafted the right elite talent at the top of the draft (something Fletcher hasn't done once in 14 years), but more to their credit, they destroyed on the pro trade scene. They acquired through various means: Toews, Girard, Compher, Kadri, Burakovsky, Lehkonen, Nichushkin, the Byram pick, and so on. Should we shine a light on Fletcher's sterling pro acquisition history? Would that boost your argument?

Fletcher is a below average drafter, without question, in philosophies and evaluating. We've had this discussion before, so I can copy and paste what I already wrote, if you so wish.

 

[Larry44]

Who brought up Sakic? This is a whataboutism. No, that team wasn't built on hitting many mid-late picks. They drafted the right elite talent at the top of the draft (something Fletcher hasn't done once in 14 years), but more to their credit, they destroyed on the pro trade scene. They acquired through various means: Toews, Girard, Compher, Kadri, Burakovsky, Lehkonen, Nichushkin, the Byram pick, and so on. Should we shine a light on Fletcher's sterling pro acquisition history? Would that boost your argument?

Fletcher is a below average drafter, without question, in philosophies and evaluating. We've had this discussion before, so I can copy and paste what I already wrote, if you so wish.

Fletcher is by a large margin the worst GM in the league. Terrible at drafting, signs horrible UFAs, bleeds assets in every trade, has no taste in coaches, ignores the development team and system, pitiful at managing the cap. There really isn't one good thing about him.

 

[renberg]

Fletcher is by a large margin the worst GM in the league. Terrible at drafting, signs horrible UFAs, bleeds assets in every trade, has no taste in coaches, ignores the development team and system, pitiful at managing the cap. There really isn't one good thing about him.

Don Sweeney says, “Hi.”.

 

[BlackandOrange]

I've said before, if there was a button that randomly assigned your team a NHL GM, you know for sure that I am pressing it and at least 90% of Flyers fans are too. Even if there were a few Mike Milburys thrown in to dilute the talent base.