Peterborough Petes 2023-24 Season Thread (Part Two)

[OMG67]

Beck is elite defensively while able to produce over a pt/g.
Beck is likely playing NHL hockey before Sapovaliv, Beck might be the better player.

Morrison was a top notch offensive player. But his value last season by no means compares to Beck now.



Misa is more talented too.
More talented and effectively better player are entirely different things.

Yes but the point was Peterborough won the OHL Championship and they didn’t trade for any of what would be considered the top 3 or 5 players that were traded. You don’t need the top player available to win a championship. You need the RIGHT player.

I had Wright, Morrison, Mintyukov, and DelMaestro ahead of Beck in the “impact” category last year. I’d slot Beck in the #5 spot on the impact list at the deadline. His value was more so as the 18 year old with 1.5 years. The Petes will get a good return for hima nd it will lessen the overall impact of the cost to acquire which is great. I wanted the 67s to acquire Beck specifically for that reason. Having the player for 1.5 seasons or flipping him the following season for assets was a strong move. I’d say he was the best “value” trade last year and that is saying something when you consider what Windsor trade For Wright.

 

[dirty12]

Yes but the point was Peterborough won the OHL Championship and they didn’t trade for any of what would be considered the top 3 or 5 players that were traded. You don’t need the top player available to win a championship. You need the RIGHT player.

I had Wright, Morrison, Mintyukov, and DelMaestro ahead of Beck in the “impact” category last year. I’d slot Beck in the #5 spot on the impact list at the deadline. His value was more so as the 18 year old with 1.5 years. The Petes will get a good return for hima nd it will lessen the overall impact of the cost to acquire which is great. I wanted the 67s to acquire Beck specifically for that reason. Having the player for 1.5 seasons or flipping him the following season for assets was a strong move. I’d say he was the best “value” trade last year and that is saying something when you consider what Windsor trade For Wright.

I could agree with Othman or Wright and maybe DelBelBelluz as possibly of greater impact for the Petes last season; though Beck’s speed, physicality, and face-off prowess may have been more desirable for Oke and Wilson.
Morrison was closer to Hayes or Kyou if you want to include D in terms of impact.

 

[OMG67]

I could agree with Othman or Wright and maybe DelBelBelluz as possibly of greater impact for the Petes last season; though Beck’s speed, physicality, and face-off prowess may have been more desirable for Oke and Wilson.
Morrison was closer to Hayes or Kyou if you want to include D in terms of impact.

Again, what is right for one team isn’t necessarily right for another team.

If you take the rankings, you have to do it based on the overall desire and impact. There were a lot of discussions last year about Wright. Where does he fit in? Even Mintyukov wasn’t’ as impactful for Ottawa as he was in Saginaw because of the style of play Ottawa deployed. He was harnessed a lot more. Maybe Ottawa didn’t need to go as high as Mintyukov when they weren’t able to take advantage of him as much.

There are a lot of variables.

We have disagreed about Morrison for over a year now. In the end, he did win an OHL MVP ahead of MacT. He clearly was impactful for Hamilton that season. It is unfortunate he struggled with injury after a short period in Ottawa. Missed a lot of time down the stretch. Wasn’t nearly 100% in the playoffs. It is too bad but that is part of hockey. It is tough to say what his impact would have been healthy.

I believe Wright was the Petes primary target. We don’t know that for sure but that seems to be the case. It doesn’t look like Wright wanted to be in Peterborough. The Petes had the ability to pay a lot more than Windsor did.

The biggest impact for the Petes this year will be the volume of players available. We have no clue yet who will be on the block. Will Kingston part with Ludwinski? OS with Guindon? Sarnia with Leblanc? Punnett with Barrie? Hayes with Flint?

Will there be a surprise team at or near the top of the standings sell? Maybe a team like Missy trades their OA’s or one of the goalies to help set up next season?

If Beck is the only star forward on the market because most of the teams feel they have a chance with status quo, that would dramatically change the market.

 

[dirty12]

Again, what is right for one team isn’t necessarily right for another team.

If you take the rankings, you have to do it based on the overall desire and impact. There were a lot of discussions last year about Wright. Where does he fit in? Even Mintyukov wasn’t’ as impactful for Ottawa as he was in Saginaw because of the style of play Ottawa deployed. He was harnessed a lot more. Maybe Ottawa didn’t need to go as high as Mintyukov when they weren’t able to take advantage of him as much.

There are a lot of variables.

We have disagreed about Morrison for over a year now. In the end, he did win an OHL MVP ahead of MacT. He clearly was impactful for Hamilton that season. It is unfortunate he struggled with injury after a short period in Ottawa. Missed a lot of time down the stretch. Wasn’t nearly 100% in the playoffs. It is too bad but that is part of hockey. It is tough to say what his impact would have been healthy.

I believe Wright was the Petes primary target. We don’t know that for sure but that seems to be the case. It doesn’t look like Wright wanted to be in Peterborough. The Petes had the ability to pay a lot more than Windsor did.

The biggest impact for the Petes this year will be the volume of players available. We have no clue yet who will be on the block. Will Kingston part with Ludwinski? OS with Guindon? Sarnia with Leblanc? Punnett with Barrie? Hayes with Flint?

Will there be a surprise team at or near the top of the standings sell? Maybe a team like Missy trades their OA’s or one of the goalies to help set up next season?

If Beck is the only star forward on the market because most of the teams feel they have a chance with status quo, that would dramatically change the market.

I think Kingston wanted Akey, Bonk, Mews more than anything the Petes had to offer.
Though I also think the Petes preferred Beck over anyone once he was made available.

Morrison was a very good offensive player, and his #’s elevated by playing with Hayes and Staois, and at various times McGurn, MacTavish, and Winterton.
Having seen both away from Hamilton, I’d take Hayes over Morrison. Hayes was either just a better over all player or had more will to do whatever it took to win.

 

[OMG67]

I think Kingston wanted Akey, Bonk, Mews more than anything the Petes had to offer.
Though I also think the Petes preferred Beck over anyone once he was made available.

Morrison was a very good offensive player, and his #’s elevated by playing with Hayes and Staois, and at various times McGurn, MacTavish, and Winterton.
Having seen both away from Hamilton, I’d take Hayes over Morrison. Hayes was either just a better over all player or had more will to do whatever it took to win.

I think you are on an Island by yourself with the Hayes vs Morrison take. Morrison is a much stronger leader and way smarter of a player on The ice. They may have different attributes and for one team or another, those attributes may be a stronger fit but suggesting Hayes is a better overall player than Morrison is a very strong take.

Keep in mind that Morrison was injured early in his 3rd game with Ottawa, missed two weeks and came back not nearly as effective. He then missed another two weeks after reinjuring himself a couple weeks before the playoffs. Bad luck but part of the game. So, I am not even sure you can honestly look at Morrison away from Hamilton and make that judgement because you weren’t really seeing the true Morrison. He didn’t even join Coachella after the season. His injury prevented him from playing AHL games. He is currently fourth in scoring for them so if he were healthy, I am sure they would have found a spot for him in the playoffs.

Hayes has one point this year and mostly eats popcorn in the press box.

 

[frontsfan67]

I think Kingston wanted Akey, Bonk, Mews more than anything the Petes had to offer.
Though I also think the Petes preferred Beck over anyone once he was made available.

Morrison was a very good offensive player, and his #’s elevated by playing with Hayes and Staois, and at various times McGurn, MacTavish, and Winterton.
Having seen both away from Hamilton, I’d take Hayes over Morrison. Hayes was either just a better over all player or had more will to do whatever it took to win.

Kingston definitely wanted one of those d men before anything else. So much in fact they took a risk with McCarthy hoping he would come over. And oddly enough this year their weakness has been defence while miedema is up and down like a toilet seat.

Cooper definitely knew something last year for sure about the need for d.

In my experience watching hayes and Morrison- they compliment each other. Both are good players on their own but turn into great with their chemistry together. Hayes is the guy you need on a team if you’re going to win a championship- but Morrison will have a better career and put up more points if that makes sense. Hamilton doesn’t win without hayes their year they won and neither does the Pete’s. What a player he was and if that new hayes guy in soo is like that- soo will be a wagon for years.

 

[OMG67]

Kingston definitely wanted one of those d men before anything else. So much in fact they took a risk with McCarthy hoping he would come over. And oddly enough this year their weakness has been defence while miedema is up and down like a toilet seat.

Cooper definitely knew something last year for sure about the need for d.

In my experience watching hayes and Morrison- they compliment each other. Both are good players on their own but turn into great with their chemistry together. Hayes is the guy you need on a team if you’re going to win a championship- but Morrison will have a better career and put up more points if that makes sense. Hamilton doesn’t win without hayes their year they won and neither does the Pete’s. What a player he was and if that new hayes guy in soo is like that- soo will be a wagon for years.

So, let’s take that a little further with respect to Hayes. Let’s assume you are correct. If Hamilton doesn’t win without Hayes and the Petes don’t win without Hayes, why is that? What does he bring to the table? He isn’t particularly highly regarded. He doesn’t score at a high clip. He flies somewhat under the radar. But, he is the type of player you need to win a championship. Without him, you cannot win.

Yet, teams chased other guys and paid a tremendous amount more in some situations. Those other guys were more highly regarded, bigger reputations, higher NHL draft picks etc. Maybe they played for Team Canada Or Team Russia etc. Maybe they were even captains of Team Canada Or Team USA. Hayes didn’t get a sniff of Team Canada.

In spite of all that, he added an element to the team that it was missing OR maybe even added an element that is so rare there is only one of them per season or two that could even be had. A unicorn if you will except not obvious like Sidney Crosby. More like the Claude Lemieux in his Jersey heyday, or Justin Williams when the Kings won the Cup.

What I am getting at right now is everyone is pointing to Beck. Is he the “Avery Hayes” of the trade deadline or is he the “Shane Wright” of the trade deadline?

 

[Petes]

So, let’s take that a little further with respect to Hayes. Let’s assume you are correct. If Hamilton doesn’t win without Hayes and the Petes don’t win without Hayes, why is that? What does he bring to the table? He isn’t particularly highly regarded. He doesn’t score at a high clip. He flies somewhat under the radar. But, he is the type of player you need to win a championship. Without him, you cannot win.

Yet, teams chased other guys and paid a tremendous amount more in some situations. Those other guys were more highly regarded, bigger reputations, higher NHL draft picks etc. Maybe they played for Team Canada Or Team Russia etc. Maybe they were even captains of Team Canada Or Team USA. Hayes didn’t get a sniff of Team Canada.

In spite of all that, he added an element to the team that it was missing OR maybe even added an element that is so rare there is only one of them per season or two that could even be had. A unicorn if you will except not obvious like Sidney Crosby. More like the Claude Lemieux in his Jersey heyday, or Justin Williams when the Kings won the Cup.

What I am getting at right now is everyone is pointing to Beck. Is he the “Avery Hayes” of the trade deadline or is he the “Shane Wright” of the trade deadline?

Avery Hayes returned an 05 first rounder as well…

 

[dirty12]

So, let’s take that a little further with respect to Hayes. Let’s assume you are correct. If Hamilton doesn’t win without Hayes and the Petes don’t win without Hayes, why is that? What does he bring to the table? He isn’t particularly highly regarded. He doesn’t score at a high clip. He flies somewhat under the radar. But, he is the type of player you need to win a championship. Without him, you cannot win.

Yet, teams chased other guys and paid a tremendous amount more in some situations. Those other guys were more highly regarded, bigger reputations, higher NHL draft picks etc. Maybe they played for Team Canada Or Team Russia etc. Maybe they were even captains of Team Canada Or Team USA. Hayes didn’t get a sniff of Team Canada.

In spite of all that, he added an element to the team that it was missing OR maybe even added an element that is so rare there is only one of them per season or two that could even be had. A unicorn if you will except not obvious like Sidney Crosby. More like the Claude Lemieux in his Jersey heyday, or Justin Williams when the Kings won the Cup.

What I am getting at right now is everyone is pointing to Beck. Is he the “Avery Hayes” of the trade deadline or is he the “Shane Wright” of the trade deadline?

O.Beck and C.Lemieux might not be a terrible comparison, excellent defensive players that can put up points and be of great value in the playoffs.
While Morrison would be more like Tavares in running shoes instead of skates.

 

[Kingpin794]

Sometimes you can make the right moves and you just lose. Doesn’t mean you added the wrong players. Windsor didn’t lose because they added Wright. Petes didn’t win because they added Hayes.

 

[Zebra]

Getting excited now -
Go Owen Beck Go !
We are so proud of you

 

[frontsfan67]

So, let’s take that a little further with respect to Hayes. Let’s assume you are correct. If Hamilton doesn’t win without Hayes and the Petes don’t win without Hayes, why is that? What does he bring to the table? He isn’t particularly highly regarded. He doesn’t score at a high clip. He flies somewhat under the radar. But, he is the type of player you need to win a championship. Without him, you cannot win.

Yet, teams chased other guys and paid a tremendous amount more in some situations. Those other guys were more highly regarded, bigger reputations, higher NHL draft picks etc. Maybe they played for Team Canada Or Team Russia etc. Maybe they were even captains of Team Canada Or Team USA. Hayes didn’t get a sniff of Team Canada.

In spite of all that, he added an element to the team that it was missing OR maybe even added an element that is so rare there is only one of them per season or two that could even be had. A unicorn if you will except not obvious like Sidney Crosby. More like the Claude Lemieux in his Jersey heyday, or Justin Williams when the Kings won the Cup.

What I am getting at right now is everyone is pointing to Beck. Is he the “Avery Hayes” of the trade deadline or is he the “Shane Wright” of the trade deadline?

Beck is the shane wright of the deadline but won’t get the same return wright did. Similar though.

Also with hayes it was the role he played as an instigator/goalscorer/pp/pk and the willingness to sacrifice the body and do what it takes to win like blocking shots. Very vital to have a player like this even if they don’t score goals but hayes was good at that too and getting the points. Hayes was more of a goal scorer between the 2 and Morrison was more of an assist guy/point guy so it worked out. Also hayes seemed pretty clutch and elevated his game during the big moments.

 

[Section7fan]

Getting pretty old reading all these fans from other teams doing everything they can to put the Petes’ players down.

Anyone who has actually WATCHED Owen Beck knows the kid is elite and everything he does can’t be seen by going off his stat line.

Also, anyone who watched the playoffs last year should know that the Petes don’t win without Hayes. So clutch. (Not sure how you have back to back 40+ goal seasons but apparently don’t score at a high clip lol)

I predict the Petes will trade Beck, two 2nds and three 3rds for a 13th and 15th round picks. I can’t for the life of me seeing any team wanting an NHL signed elite two way forward who can score with two World Jrs and an OHL championship under his belt. Brings absolutely nothing to the table.

 

[Petes]

I cannot wait for January 10th so all of this talk is over and we can focus on watching the young guys on the roster develop and work towards being a contender in the future.

 

[EvenSteven]

I’d have thought that Beck would have been an automatic as captain of Team Canada as the only returning player on the team.

Unless I’m mistaken, and I may be, if there are returning player(s), they are the only candidates for the captaincy of Team Canada because of their experience.

 

[HockeyPops]

Clearly that's not the case

 

[EvenSteven]

Not this year obviously.

 

[cleodog]

Does anyone remember the cost for Akil Thomas?

To me that is who Owen Beck is. He’s not the top player in the league maybe not even top player available at the deadline. But any team making a run he is the perfect fit of all around player

Face offs matter so much in the play offs we saw that first hand last season and he’s one of the best in the league and the best available.

 

[Ogie Junior]

Does anyone remember the cost for Akil Thomas?

To me that is who Owen Beck is. He’s not the top player in the league maybe not even top player available at the deadline. But any team making a run he is the perfect fit of all around player

Face offs matter so much in the play offs we saw that first hand last season and he’s one of the best in the league and the best available.

In exchange for Thomas, the IceDogs have acquired 17-year-old forward Cameron Butler and four draft picks – two second-round picks (2020, 2022), one third-round pick (2022) and a fourth-round pick (2024).

 

[Petes]

In exchange for Thomas, the IceDogs have acquired 17-year-old forward Cameron Butler and four draft picks – two second-round picks (2020, 2022), one third-round pick (2022) and a fourth-round pick (2024).

Yes… BUT… that was only because JR Avon who was the teams current first rounder at the time… used his NTC. So… not the best comparable

 

[Newbie Observer]

With the deadline approaching; you don't win if you don't go all in. Not to say you will win, some don't (playoffs are tough sled) but to play along the edge wont get you there. Guelph went all in yrs ago, Hamilton first rounders for McTavish, Petes first rounders for Hayes, Beck. Cleodog just mentioned the Petes in Covid yr trading 1st rounder. Look at the other leagues. The west - teams trade multiple 1st rounders for a player (Seattle, Kamloops) to get there and try to win. Safe gets you into playoffs, risk taking gets you a shot at winning it all. No guarantee and you may have some lean years after, but there is only one OHL champion. I would argue looking at the champions over the years, very few 1st rounders on roster or playing in finals. Cant have it both ways.

 

[OMG67]

With the deadline approaching; you don't win if you don't go all in. Not to say you will win, some don't (playoffs are tough sled) but to play along the edge wont get you there. Guelph went all in yrs ago, Hamilton first rounders for McTavish, Petes first rounders for Hayes, Beck. Cleodog just mentioned the Petes in Covid yr trading 1st rounder. Look at the other leagues. The west - teams trade multiple 1st rounders for a player (Seattle, Kamloops) to get there and try to win. Safe gets you into playoffs, risk taking gets you a shot at winning it all. No guarantee and you may have some lean years after, but there is only one OHL champion. I would argue looking at the champions over the years, very few 1st rounders on roster or playing in finals. Cant have it both ways.

There are many definitions of “all in.” It doesn’t mean you have to trade your 1st round pick. Sometimes your first round pick won’t waive his No Trade (JR Avon).

I would agree the Petes went “all in” last year. They went beyond all in IMO. The extent the Petes went last year goes beyond the traditional definition. They essentially sacrificed three draft classes. That shouldn’t be the measuring stick. That should be the exception.

I think there are multiple teams every year that go all in. Teams go all in based on what they have to trade. Some have more than others so their “all” part of the all in is different than another team.

Last year, Ottawa traded five 2nds, five 3rds, and five 4ths. For some teams, that goes beyond their ability because they don’t have enough picks to even consider doing that. Ottawa left a lot in the tank and faced the consequences of not going all in based on their assets. Kitchener went all in but didn’t have enough assets to properly make it work.

In light of that, I think the point is if you want to make a serious run, you typically need to align resources and trade assets to the year you project making that run. It is a multi-year process of acquiring tradable assets in addition to development. That is the key. You need the two components, not just one. You need the foundation of a solid competitive team AND the assets combined with the willingness to move them. It takes a lot of commitment to do it.

 

[Petesfan8]

There are many definitions of “all in.” It doesn’t mean you have to trade your 1st round pick. Sometimes your first round pick won’t waive his No Trade (JR Avon).

I would agree the Petes went “all in” last year. They went beyond all in IMO. The extent the Petes went last year goes beyond the traditional definition. They essentially sacrificed three draft classes. That shouldn’t be the measuring stick. That should be the exception.

I think there are multiple teams every year that go all in. Teams go all in based on what they have to trade. Some have more than others so their “all” part of the all in is different than another team.

Last year, Ottawa traded five 2nds, five 3rds, and five 4ths. For some teams, that goes beyond their ability because they don’t have enough picks to even consider doing that. Ottawa left a lot in the tank and faced the consequences of not going all in based on their assets. Kitchener went all in but didn’t have enough assets to properly make it work.

In light of that, I think the point is if you want to make a serious run, you typically need to align resources and trade assets to the year you project making that run. It is a multi-year process of acquiring tradable assets in addition to development. That is the key. You need the two components, not just one. You need the foundation of a solid competitive team AND the assets combined with the willingness to move them. It takes a lot of commitment to do it.

 

[Petesfan8]

In an interview with Rob Wilson in the Examiner he says if you are a buyer you must go all in and if you are a seller all in as well. I totally agree and there is no doubt (in my mind) that the Petes are sellers.

 

[User13452]

In an interview with Rob Wilson in the Examiner he says if you are a buyer you must go all in and if you are a seller all in as well. I totally agree and there is no doubt (in my mind) that the Petes are sellers.

Well they don’t have the picks to be a buyer so makes it pretty easy