Peterborough Petes 2023-24 Season Thread (Part Two)

[Section5Petes]

Simple question. Which trade would you prefer IF you only had these two choices?

Trade #1
To Saginaw - Owen Beck
To Peterborough - Aiden Young + two 2nds + two 3rds

Trade #2
To Saginaw - Cedric Guindon
To Owen Sound - Two 2nds + three 3rds

That is the type of decision teams need to make. Some will need Beck enough to make Trade #1. Some won’t need to make that type of trade. Adding a guy like Guindon isn’t considered bargain bin shopping so don’t be childish.

NOTE: I don’t know if OS will be a seller but if they were, a guy like Guindon would be a great option that wouldn’t cost an ‘07. He (or others like him) would cost something closer to Harrison, Zhilkin, Dann, or Arcuri last year.

Trade #3
To Soo - Owen Beck
To Peterborough - Brady Martin + 2nd + 4th

 

[Fischhaber]

Simple question. Which trade would you prefer IF you only had these two choices?

Trade #1
To Saginaw - Owen Beck
To Peterborough - Aiden Young + two 2nds + two 3rds

Trade #2
To Saginaw - Cedric Guindon
To Owen Sound - Two 2nds + three 3rds

That is the type of decision teams need to make. Some will need Beck enough to make Trade #1. Some won’t need to make that type of trade. Adding a guy like Guindon isn’t considered bargain bin shopping so don’t be childish.

NOTE: I don’t know if OS will be a seller but if they were, a guy like Guindon would be a great option that wouldn’t cost an ‘07. He (or others like him) would cost something closer to Harrison, Zhilkin, Dann, or Arcuri last year.

Probably trade #1. Nothing against Young, but he hasn't stood out and has been passed by a few second rounders in terms of value. He can still turn into a great player and any team would want him, but definitely a guy you would be willing to move for a star.

Trade #3
To Soo - Owen Beck
To Peterborough - Brady Martin + 2nd + 4th

Put that 2nd and 4th on the other side haha. Maybe more.

 

[Section7fan]

if you’re not bargain bin shopping in a go for it year then i don’t know what you’re doing!!

It’s funny because some have never seen their team win anything. The pain afterward is worth going all in and winning.

 

[Kingpin794]

Simple question. Which trade would you prefer IF you only had these two choices?

Trade #1
To Saginaw - Owen Beck
To Peterborough - Aiden Young + two 2nds + two 3rds

Trade #2
To Saginaw - Cedric Guindon
To Owen Sound - Two 2nds + three 3rds

That is the type of decision teams need to make. Some will need Beck enough to make Trade #1. Some won’t need to make that type of trade. Adding a guy like Guindon isn’t considered bargain bin shopping so don’t be childish.

NOTE: I don’t know if OS will be a seller but if they were, a guy like Guindon would be a great option that wouldn’t cost an ‘07. He (or others like him) would cost something closer to Harrison, Zhilkin, Dann, or Arcuri last year.

I prefer option 1 but…

This is a false dichotomy. If it’s legitimately Beck vs X, you spend the assets for Beck. But if say Sudbury goes and gets Beck, then a real choice pops up. Now you have several players that are roughly the same. You take the better deal in that case.

 

[OMG67]

I prefer option 1 but…

This is a false dichotomy. If it’s legitimately Beck vs X, you spend the assets for Beck. But if say Sudbury goes and gets Beck, then a real choice pops up. Now you have several players that are roughly the same. You take the better deal in that case.

And if your needs are bigger than just the Forward? Do you ignore the other needs and place all your chips into one player? Maybe, if it is the right situation. Maybe not if he is a duplicate of what you already have.

Where I am having the problem is all the people fawning over Beck like he is a must have for all teams. All teams that are serious about contending need to drop their ’07 plus a basket of picks on him as if he is the ONLY player out there worth while. As if all other players available are meaningless by comparison. It quite simply is not true.

If Colin MacKenzie were to become available, he would and should be Sudbury’s #1 target without any question. Probably SSM’s as well. That is not to say his trade value is the same as Beck’s. But, if the trade value of MacKenzie and Punnet were equal to the trade value of Beck alone, you best bet Sudbury would prioritize the goal prevention of those two players, especially if they keep their ‘07 in the process.

 

[DeletedAccountt]

Virgilio + SSM 2nd round 2024 + SSM 2nd round 2027 + Sag 3rd round 2023 + Kingston 3rd round 2026 + NB 4th round 2024 ( maybe some conditionals ) for Owen Beck

Virgilio + Alex Kostov(or Christopher Brown)+ SSM 2nd round 2024 + SSM 2nd round 2027 + Sag 3rd round 2023 + Kingston 3rd round 2026 + NB 4th round 2024 + 4th 2024+ ( maybe some conditionals ) for Owen Beck & Konnor Smith

Just throwing some pasta at the wall with players I think Soo will move again.

 

[Petes]

Virgilio + SSM 2nd round 2024 + SSM 2nd round 2027 + Sag 3rd round 2023 + Kingston 3rd round 2026 + NB 4th round 2024 ( maybe some conditionals ) for Owen Beck

Virgilio + Alex Kostov(or Christopher Brown)+ SSM 2nd round 2024 + SSM 2nd round 2027 + Sag 3rd round 2023 + Kingston 3rd round 2026 + NB 4th round 2024 + 4th 2024+ ( maybe some conditionals ) for Owen Beck & Konnor Smith

Just throwing some pasta at the wall with players I think Soo will move again.

I think I would do that second deal with Brown coming back

 

[DeletedAccountt]

I think I would do that second deal with Brown coming back

Either way, when you start listing up trade ideas/offers, as @Kingpin794 said another offer comes up that really turns the attention of the GM. I think the second SSM offers up Matthew Virgilio it catapults them into a top destination for anyone, just my opinion, and others will think differently especially about their prospects or potential trade bait. I think in the case of Virglio ( some may call it a overvalue) the one extra year you'll get from a 2007 player being traded isn't even much of a difference. I dont see a team picking a lesser player just because hes an 2007 born in this situation. does that make sense? haha

 

[Section7fan]

Either way, when you start listing up trade ideas/offers, as @Kingpin794 said another offer comes up that really turns the attention of the GM. I think the second SSM offers up Matthew Virgilio it catapults them into a top destination for anyone, just my opinion, and others will think differently especially about their prospects or potential trade bait. I think in the case of Virglio ( some may call it an overvalue) the one extra year you'll get from a 2007 player being traded isn't even much of a difference. I dont see a team picking a lesser player just because hes an 2007 born in this situation. does that make sense? haha

The Petes don’t have a good 06 core to build around so it makes much more sense to get the best 07 they can to build with Cameron.

 

[OMG67]

Either way, when you start listing up trade ideas/offers, as @Kingpin794 said another offer comes up that really turns the attention of the GM. I think the second SSM offers up Matthew Virgilio it catapults them into a top destination for anyone, just my opinion, and others will think differently especially about their prospects or potential trade bait. I think in the case of Virglio ( some may call it a overvalue) the one extra year you'll get from a 2007 player being traded isn't even much of a difference. I dont see a team picking a lesser player just because hes an 2007 born in this situation. does that make sense? haha

I’ve stated many times that any 16 year old that you are truly getting an extra year of production out of is either a player that is contributing and you cannot trade or is a player likley to graduate early. Therefore, there really shouldn‘t be a difference between a 16 year old and 17 year old in trade value. Most 16 year olds need that first year of training and development. Teams are putting more into the player than they are getting out of the player. Adding a 17 year old also reduces the variability of expected vs realized performance.

The downside of adding a 17 year old is that, again, if you have a high performing 17 year old, it is a player you are less likely to trade. If you have a low performing 17 year old, he is less likely to be in demand. The goldilocks 17 year old is the one that still projects well but is on a very deep roster and there really isn’t an opportunity for that player on his current team. The Petes should be targeting those guys for sure.

 

[Kingpin794]

And if your needs are bigger than just the Forward? Do you ignore the other needs and place all your chips into one player? Maybe, if it is the right situation. Maybe not if he is a duplicate of what you already have.

Where I am having the problem is all the people fawning over Beck like he is a must have for all teams. All teams that are serious about contending need to drop their ’07 plus a basket of picks on him as if he is the ONLY player out there worth while. As if all other players available are meaningless by comparison. It quite simply is not true.

If Colin MacKenzie were to become available, he would and should be Sudbury’s #1 target without any question. Probably SSM’s as well. That is not to say his trade value is the same as Beck’s. But, if the trade value of MacKenzie and Punnet were equal to the trade value of Beck alone, you best bet Sudbury would prioritize the goal prevention of those two players, especially if they keep their ‘07 in the process.

And I don’t think trying to recreate a star via piecemeal acquisitions is a great idea. It’s a philosophical difference we have.

 

[Petes1]

Either way, when you start listing up trade ideas/offers, as @Kingpin794 said another offer comes up that really turns the attention of the GM. I think the second SSM offers up Matthew Virgilio it catapults them into a top destination for anyone, just my opinion, and others will think differently especially about their prospects or potential trade bait. I think in the case of Virglio ( some may call it a overvalue) the one extra year you'll get from a 2007 player being traded isn't even much of a difference. I dont see a team picking a lesser player just because hes an 2007 born in this situation. does that make sense? haha

I think it depends on how you project your roster over the next few years. Their '05 and '06 players are probably towards the bottom of the league. The next 2 years are built around those two age groups. Their '07 draft also lacked high picks.

Young/Taylor/Romano give you the next 3 years to build a good team. Virgilio gives you 2 (guaranteed) years.

Even if Virgilio is the best of that group, he's potentially gone by the time you can build another competitive team.

 

[OMG67]

And I don’t think trying to recreate a star via piecemeal acquisitions is a great idea. It’s a philosophical difference we have.

The main difference we have is rating Owen Beck. He may be the best identified Forward available but that doesn’t make him elite in the manner that many suggest. He’s not MacT. He isn’t Tavares. He is a poor man’s Elite player in a weak league. He doesn’t compare to most elite deadline players. I don’t see him as the difference maker with a wide gap between him and other players. If he were that guy then sure. But he quite simply is not that guy. He is not the best player in the league. Whoever acquires him will not possess the best player in The league. If Saginaw were to acquire him, he wouldn’t be the best player on that team.

 

[Fischhaber]

The main difference we have is rating Owen Beck. He may be the best identified Forward available but that doesn’t make him elite in the manner that many suggest. He’s not MacT. He isn’t Tavares. He is a poor man’s Elite player in a weak league. He doesn’t compare to most elite deadline players. I don’t see him as the difference maker with a wide gap between him and other players. If he were that guy then sure. But he quite simply is not that guy. He is not the best player in the league. Whoever acquires him will not possess the best player in The league. If Saginaw were to acquire him, he wouldn’t be the best player on that team.

I think Beck is better than Michael Misa for this season, but not going forward. Parekh could also be in that conversation in the future, but certainly not now, given his tremendous defensive issues. Is he Ryan Merkley/Ryan Murphy, or does he figure it out? Certainly one of the more interesting players in the league.

 

[DeletedAccountt]

The main difference we have is rating Owen Beck. He may be the best identified Forward available but that doesn’t make him elite in the manner that many suggest. He’s not MacT. He isn’t Tavares. He is a poor man’s Elite player in a weak league. He doesn’t compare to most elite deadline players. I don’t see him as the difference maker with a wide gap between him and other players. If he were that guy then sure. But he quite simply is not that guy. He is not the best player in the league. Whoever acquires him will not possess the best player in The league. If Saginaw were to acquire him, he wouldn’t be the best player on that team.

I know some people who truly believe that it’s in the best interest of the Soo to look outside of Owen Beck, and fill positions with players like Ludwinski. Etc... I’d tag this person to credit them but they’re not on HF.

So I totally get this !

 

[Kingpin794]

The main difference we have is rating Owen Beck. He may be the best identified Forward available but that doesn’t make him elite in the manner that many suggest. He’s not MacT. He isn’t Tavares. He is a poor man’s Elite player in a weak league. He doesn’t compare to most elite deadline players. I don’t see him as the difference maker with a wide gap between him and other players. If he were that guy then sure. But he quite simply is not that guy. He is not the best player in the league. Whoever acquires him will not possess the best player in The league. If Saginaw were to acquire him, he wouldn’t be the best player on that team.

He doesn’t need to be the best player on the team. That concept isn’t even something Drinkell and Lazary are worried about.

 

[Wolfman Jack]

The main difference we have is rating Owen Beck. He may be the best identified Forward available but that doesn’t make him elite in the manner that many suggest. He’s not MacT. He isn’t Tavares. He is a poor man’s Elite player in a weak league. He doesn’t compare to most elite deadline players. I don’t see him as the difference maker with a wide gap between him and other players. If he were that guy then sure. But he quite simply is not that guy. He is not the best player in the league. Whoever acquires him will not possess the best player in The league. If Saginaw were to acquire him, he wouldn’t be the best player on that team.

Same can be said for Sudbury. Dvorsky by far is the most talented regardless who we deal for.

WJ

 

[DeletedAccountt]

Same can be said for Sudbury. Dvorsky by far is the most talented regardless who we deal for.

WJ

Same for the Soo. Clattenburg is hands down the best player on the team no matter who we add…

 

[Wolfman Jack]

And if your needs are bigger than just the Forward? Do you ignore the other needs and place all your chips into one player? Maybe, if it is the right situation. Maybe not if he is a duplicate of what you already have.

Where I am having the problem is all the people fawning over Beck like he is a must have for all teams. All teams that are serious about contending need to drop their ’07 plus a basket of picks on him as if he is the ONLY player out there worth while. As if all other players available are meaningless by comparison. It quite simply is not true.

If Colin MacKenzie were to become available, he would and should be Sudbury’s #1 target without any question. Probably SSM’s as well. That is not to say his trade value is the same as Beck’s. But, if the trade value of MacKenzie and Punnet were equal to the trade value of Beck alone, you best bet Sudbury would prioritize the goal prevention of those two players, especially if they keep their ‘07 in the process.

For the record. Regardless who becomes available Sudbury has secured their goaltending with the double VV aka Victory Victory!

WJ

Same for the Soo. Clattenburg is hands down the best player on the team no matter who we add…

Would be a good depth piece. Take him for a 6th.

WJ

 

[Zebra]

Merry Christmas Petes fans !
Hope you have a safe and happy holiday with your loved ones

 

[sidomi28]

Has anyone considered the championship experience these Petes players garnered last season concerning these deals too? Beck, Mayer, Smith, a really difficult run and experience should be brought up a little I feel too, regardless of who is better and who is not!

 

[Section5Petes]

Merry Christmas Petes fans !
Hope you have a safe and happy holiday with your loved ones

Happy Holidays to you all as well!! Ho Petes Ho!!

 

[OMG67]

Has anyone considered the championship experience these Petes players garnered last season concerning these deals too? Beck, Mayer, Smith, a really difficult run and experience should be brought up a little I feel too, regardless of who is better and who is not!

Last season, Ottawa acquired the OHL Playoff MVP, arguably one of the top 2 or 3 centres in the league. They also added the CHL D-Man of the year, quite possibly the best player in the league. None of this is a recipe for guaranteed success. You need to address all of your gaps. Ottawa was young and needed one additional impact player up front but they stopped short. If a team like Sudbury needs multiple players but can only acquire Beck and then have a difficult time acquiring additional players because of asset depletion, he may not be a good choice. Sudbury adding Beck will only keep them in a pack of 5-6 teams. Same with a bunch of other teams.

If you are a team like Hamilton two seasons ago and you are the top team hands down, you have the luxury of picking and choosing the players you acquire to take your team over the top. I don‘t see any team in the league this year that equates to Hamilton of 21-22. Each of the top teams have gaps.

Those teams need to first address their gaps. A couple of the teams have a big gap at centre where Beck would be the first choice BUT if they have multiple gaps and not enough assets to address their multiple gaps, Beck may not be the best choice even for those teams.

That is all I am saying. In a league that does not have a clear cut top team, not even a clear cut top 3, with so much parity and not a lot of elite talent overall, the top teams mostly need multiple players if they want to separate themselves from the pack. It is hard to acquire multiple players at multiple positions with one of them arguably costing half of your disposable assets or more.

I don’t feel Beck is head and shoulders above his contemporaries like Ludwinski, at least not enough to pay the added freight (assuming the trade proposals presented are accurate).

I don’t feel we are adequately providing value for a player like Ludwinski or Guindon. It is a wasted conversation if it is all about the team that gets Beck is in the drivers seat. It simply is not true.

 

[dirty12]

The main difference we have is rating Owen Beck. He may be the best identified Forward available but that doesn’t make him elite in the manner that many suggest. He’s not MacT. He isn’t Tavares. He is a poor man’s Elite player in a weak league. He doesn’t compare to most elite deadline players. I don’t see him as the difference maker with a wide gap between him and other players. If he were that guy then sure. But he quite simply is not that guy. He is not the best player in the league. Whoever acquires him will not possess the best player in The league. If Saginaw were to acquire him, he wouldn’t be the best player on that team.

Beck is elite defensively while able to produce over a pt/g.
Beck is likely playing NHL hockey before Sapovaliv, Beck might be the better player.

Morrison was a top notch offensive player. But his value last season by no means compares to Beck now.

Same can be said for Sudbury. Dvorsky by far is the most talented regardless who we deal for.

WJ

Misa is more talented too.
More talented and effectively better player are entirely different things.

 

[DeletedAccountt]

Has anyone considered the championship experience these Petes players garnered last season concerning these deals too? Beck, Mayer, Smith, a really difficult run and experience should be brought up a little I feel too, regardless of who is better and who is not!

This is something the Soo has to be considering.. it has to be the number one reason in my opinion.