I’m surprised he got anything at all. I don’t think it warranted a 5 let alone a suspension. He didn’t “spear” him very hard at all.
Peterborough Petes 2023-24 Season Thread (Part One)
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It's been a great run for the Maroon and White.....it will be about a third of the way through the season after their next 3 games. The veterans have been warriors, logging big minutes, playing physical and leading by example. I'm concerned that this level of usage may catch up to them.
Looking ahead at the schedule up to the Christmas break, including the countdown to Beck's final game as a Pete......
12 games, 7 home, 5 away and without Beck for 2 or 3 games.
I'd be OK with 5-5-2 over this stretch
Thurs. Nov. 23 - host Windsor
(don't like this spot for the Petes who are playing over their heads and facing a "wounded animal" Spits team who have lost 8 in a row)
Fri. Nov. 24 - at Missy
(very interested in this game with both teams playing well and Missy with an open OA spot)
Mon. Nov. 27 - host Sudbury
(Sudbury is struggling, now at 5 consecutive losses. IMO though, with the pieces they have it's gotta click for them sooner or later. They will want payback after the 7-4 loss at home to the Petes. Weird to be playing on a Monday too........Sean Paul concert at the PMC on Saturday and Sudbury is in Oshawa on the Sunday afternoon)
Thurs. Nov. 30 - host Flint
(Flint is hot on the road, 8-4, and have some momentum after beating the Knights in London last week)
Sat. Dec. 2 - host North Bay
(Battalion will be looking for payback after losing at home to the Petes in OT. One plus for the Petes is that North Bay plays in Kingston the night before)
Sun. Dec. 3 - at Niagara
(It's Niagara but they seem to be battling hard every game despite the disappointing results. I hope the Petes don't take the IceDogs lightly)
Thurs. Dec. 7 - host Brantford
(Brantford are in the middle of the East and I'm not sure which way they'll be trending at that point. The addition of Hamara sure helps solidify their back end)
*Canada’s National Junior Team will gather in Oakville, Ontario for a four-day selection camp, Dec. 10-13, before selecting a final roster ahead of the 2024 IIHF WJC. The selection camp will include a pair of games against a team of U SPORTS all-stars on Dec. 12-13.
I expect Beck's last game will be the Thursday night home game.
Fri. Dec. 8 - at Ottawa
(Ottawa plays on Wednesday, Petes will be on a back-to-back. The 67s are always up to play the Petes and no one knows whether they will make any changes before then. Either way I expect this to be a let down game for the Petes with Beck gone)
Sun. Dec. 10 - host Ottawa
(see above........happy with a split vs Ottawa in these two)
Thurs. Dec. 14 - host Kingston
(Kingston may have righted the ship at this point and be on the rise with a healthy lineup that is deeper than we've seen)
Fri. Dec. 15 - at Guelph
(I expect Guelph to be be rising up the standings at this point. They will be tough to face at home )
Sun. Dec. 17 - at Oshawa
(Expecting a 6-5 come from behind OT win..........Merry Christmas
)
Looking ahead at the schedule up to the Christmas break, including the countdown to Beck's final game as a Pete......
12 games, 7 home, 5 away and without Beck for 2 or 3 games.
I'd be OK with 5-5-2 over this stretch
Thurs. Nov. 23 - host Windsor
(don't like this spot for the Petes who are playing over their heads and facing a "wounded animal" Spits team who have lost 8 in a row)
Fri. Nov. 24 - at Missy
(very interested in this game with both teams playing well and Missy with an open OA spot)
Mon. Nov. 27 - host Sudbury
(Sudbury is struggling, now at 5 consecutive losses. IMO though, with the pieces they have it's gotta click for them sooner or later. They will want payback after the 7-4 loss at home to the Petes. Weird to be playing on a Monday too........Sean Paul concert at the PMC on Saturday and Sudbury is in Oshawa on the Sunday afternoon)
Thurs. Nov. 30 - host Flint
(Flint is hot on the road, 8-4, and have some momentum after beating the Knights in London last week)
Sat. Dec. 2 - host North Bay
(Battalion will be looking for payback after losing at home to the Petes in OT. One plus for the Petes is that North Bay plays in Kingston the night before)
Sun. Dec. 3 - at Niagara
(It's Niagara but they seem to be battling hard every game despite the disappointing results. I hope the Petes don't take the IceDogs lightly)
Thurs. Dec. 7 - host Brantford
(Brantford are in the middle of the East and I'm not sure which way they'll be trending at that point. The addition of Hamara sure helps solidify their back end)
*Canada’s National Junior Team will gather in Oakville, Ontario for a four-day selection camp, Dec. 10-13, before selecting a final roster ahead of the 2024 IIHF WJC. The selection camp will include a pair of games against a team of U SPORTS all-stars on Dec. 12-13.
I expect Beck's last game will be the Thursday night home game.
Fri. Dec. 8 - at Ottawa
(Ottawa plays on Wednesday, Petes will be on a back-to-back. The 67s are always up to play the Petes and no one knows whether they will make any changes before then. Either way I expect this to be a let down game for the Petes with Beck gone)
Sun. Dec. 10 - host Ottawa
(see above........happy with a split vs Ottawa in these two)
Thurs. Dec. 14 - host Kingston
(Kingston may have righted the ship at this point and be on the rise with a healthy lineup that is deeper than we've seen)
Fri. Dec. 15 - at Guelph
(I expect Guelph to be be rising up the standings at this point. They will be tough to face at home )
Sun. Dec. 17 - at Oshawa
(Expecting a 6-5 come from behind OT win..........Merry Christmas
)
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Section5Petes
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Petes now ranked 8th in the CHL! Hopefully this recognition doesn't become our demise like it has in the past
Petes need to tune out the outside noise and keep playing their game #GoPetesGo
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Petes need to tune out the outside noise and keep playing their game #GoPetesGo
2023-24 CHL Top-10 Rankings: Week 8 - Peterborough Petes
Riding the CHL’s longest winning streak of the season at 10 in a row, the Halifax Mooseheads are No. 1 for a fourth straight week.
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Section5Petes
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On behalf of the Wolves I would take Beck and 4 picks for Villeneuve. Lol. Think your pic might be wrong
Section5Petes
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I am sure that Beck and his agent will have input as to where he goes. Would Sudbury be on the list?Whoops LOL Just fixed it
Section5Petes
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Well Beck as an OHL 2nd rounder does not have a full trade clause, however, the Petes will not just send him anywhere. They will work to send him to a spot that works best for the player and the team, not just the highest bidder.
Where’s your graphic for the Mayer deal? We need a young D in return for that one lol
Section5Petes
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OMG67
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I’m curious to understand how the league values Villeneuve. I have him valued quite high. I know he isn’t having the greatest 17 year old second season to date but that kid has a ton of skill. He is also a decent size. I’m thinking that deal is really hefty when you stretch out what was paid to acquire Beck.
To Missy last year:
7th overall pick in 2022 (JVV)
two 2nds
3rd
4th
Dezote (pretty much a nothing player)
To Petes this year:
3rd overall pick in 2022 (Villeneuve)
two 2nds
two 3rds
So, essentially, the return for Beck is higher as a 19 year old than as an 18 year old. They get the 3rd pick instead of the 7th pick. They get a 3rd instead of a 4th. That’s pretty ambitious.
I would hazard a guess that the Petes won’t get a bigger return for Beck this year than what they paid for him Last year. I am not too sure they can snag both the four high picks plus a highly regarded prospect centre (16 or 17 y/o). I think if they get the high rated young prospect centre, they will get 2 good picks with him, not four.
I would take Villeneuve, 2nd, 3rd, 4th for Beck. I think Villeneuve would walk into the Petes without skipping a beat and produce at a .80ppg right away. Probably over a point per game next year while playing second line.
That would be a huge win for Peterborough. Imagine the Petes effectively getting Beck for 11 months and it cost them a 2nd and Dezote and they improve in the 2022 draft from #7 overall to #3? Talk about a thievery! This is why I really wanted Ottawa to push for Beck last year. Even if it cost us Mews, we’d still end up with Villeneuve under that scenario which is likely a better roster mix for the 67’s anyway.
Section5Petes
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yeah after i published the picks for the beck deal i thought it was too much as well. villeneuve has not produced anywhere near what a 3rd overall pick should be but he’s still an ‘06 that has been kinda buried both years. great faceoff numbers (sounds like a Pete already). at the very least i could see Villeneuve, 2nd, 2 3rds if he really doesn’t produce much the rest of this first half. with that being said i would be happy with with NV, 2nd, 3rd, 4th. I think he would be a good fit with the Petes and have a nice jump in point production as well
I think you were right the first time. Getting the 2022 first round vs a 2023 should mean more picks. It’s not like NV is lighting the league on fire atm.
That's right but Beck is also a year older and if the Wolves trade for him they won't be able to trade him next season like the Petes are able to this year.....unless he somehow returns to play his OA year which is highly unlikely.
Beck cost the 6th overall 2023 first rounder plus a former second round pick with 2.5 years left plus the picks. Very similar to what we got for McTavish. Going rate for a high end 18 year old.
Gold standard for a top 19 year old is a 16 year old and 2 2nds and a 3rd minimum. A 17 year old has less service time left so that should mean more pick capital.
Look back at Akil Thomas. Butler 2 2nds and a 3rd and that was an absolute steal for the Petes.
Beck is the best player available and worth more than NV a 2nd, 3rd and 4th.
OMG67
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He’s produced very similarly to JVV.
I think it would be very difficult to try to justify to an acquiring team Beck is essentially worth what was paid the previous year. That would be a tough conversation.
For the Pete’s to go there, they’d have to have at least 3 teams pushing very hard and offering ‘07 1sts plus a big picks package to convince Sudbury to go with Villeneuve plus that many high picks. I’m not certain there will be 3-4 honest buyers for Beck at that commitment level to force a deal like that into existence.
On top of that, you have to think Beck will get a say in the situation which may end up sabotaging a deal. Imagine the uproar if the Petes end up with a Shane Wright type return?
OMG67
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NV was the 3rd overall pick and still possesses high value. I think it is a mistake underestimating the value of NV. I believe his value is higher than many of the ‘07 1sts.
There is absolutely no difference in value between 16 and 17 year olds. The 16 year old is getting his feet wet. Theoretically, that player is going through an apprenticeship and requires a lot of attention and development. That player is typically not a heavy producer so counting the year of extra service really isn’t significant. You really only get 3 years of values service from 17-19 unless the player is at a very elite level. Very few 16 year olds contribute at a meaningful level.
We can disagree on whether NV has high value based on stat line and overall impact but suggesting there is a meaningful difference between NV and someone like Young based on total years of service is probably not accurate. Snagging a 17 year old consensus top 5 pick vs a 16 year old 16th overall pick will typically be much more highly valued.
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Imagine the uproar if they get a Shane Wright type return? You’re literally suggesting they should get less than what Windsor got for Wright.
OMG67
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Not at all. What I am saying is there are factors that sometimes work against a team. The Wright situation is a great example.
Let’s assume the scuttlebutt surrounding the Wright trade is accurate. HE wanted to go to London but Bonk refused the trade so they ended up negotiating with Windsor because that was the only other team he would accept a deal to. Windsor didn’t have the right assets to make that deal.
Now flip that towards Beck. Let’s say the two teams Beck wants to go to aren’t willing to move the type of assets the Petes want. What happens next? In most cases, the return is not as expected because the teams making the deal usually respect the wishes of the player out of respect and find the best deal amongst the teams the player is willing to go to. I’m not saying it will happen or even that it should happen. I am jsut saying that in this market, it may be more likely to happen than in a normal year.
I don’t think Beck has a no trade clause because he wasn’t a first round pick but how often will teams simply ignore a players wishes and send him wherever when the player is a Team Canada level player? They usually try to work with the kid as best they can.
IMO, the Wright trade was horrendous for Kingston. I know there are a handful of people that defend that trade value but I simply don’t see it that way at all. In my opinion it was embarrassing for Kingston that Wright only returned that level of compensation. If that were to happen to Peterborough, I think it would be horrendous for them as well.
All I am saying is that this market is much less predictable than the normal market. I don’t think there are many teams willing to pay the normal freight for the high end players compared to the average eyar. Last year was a full on sellers market. Loads of buyers willing to part with tons of assets for players. This year? I’m not so sure it will be close to last year. So, in a weaker market, you’d expect to see some wonky trade deals. I think we’ve already seen a few wonky trade deals.
I think expectations should be tempered a bit. I don’t think it is realistic for the Petes to get more for Beck than they gave up last year. The trade post above is an example of a trade proposal where the Petes effectively get more than they traded for Beck. That isn’t realistic and after factoring in this market, it is even less realistic.
Unpopular opinion: keep everyone, add a couple scoring wingers on the cheap, run it back.
The East stinks. No one is one trade away. The Petes are easily the best team in the conference now and have the goaltending, 4 solid veteran DMen + a rookie who can seemingly handle 25 minutes a night no problem.
They have strength down the middle, particularly two way play down the middle which is so valuable in the playoffs and in Wilson's system. They have all the difficult to acquire pieces on hand already.
This team is so far ahead of where it was at this point last year. Don't be brainwashed by "OHL cycle" or the fans from other teams coming in here wanting to grab players on the cheap. Run it back. If the Petes hadn't won the OHL last year would anyone be suggesting blowing up the first place team in the conference?
I know the thought was this team would struggle and a rebuild this season was the only way to go but that isn't the reality of the situation anymore.
I am aware of the opportunity cost of not trading away some of these players when they are at their peak value, to which I say... I don't care. The next couple years will be rough no matter what. So you're giving up on a team that could go deep in the playoffs again this year for a maybe that is at least three years away (Cameron's 19 year old season likely).
Draft picks are magic beans and there are always players you can move down the line. There is nothing they can/should do that will significantly improve the next couple seasons. We are talking about getting 07/08 guys or draft picks that become players even younger than that.
And then you're hoping that three years from now you can put together a team that maybe, possibly is as good as the one in front of us right now. I used to think that way too, the fantasy GM stuff is fun I guess, if you forget it's a bunch of 16-19 years olds lives you're just casually throwing around but the willingness to look at the team that is #8 in Canada and has shown they have a system that can win in the playoffs and want to blow it up for some sort of marginal improvement three years from now... I just don't get why fans seem so eager for it.
The East stinks. No one is one trade away. The Petes are easily the best team in the conference now and have the goaltending, 4 solid veteran DMen + a rookie who can seemingly handle 25 minutes a night no problem.
They have strength down the middle, particularly two way play down the middle which is so valuable in the playoffs and in Wilson's system. They have all the difficult to acquire pieces on hand already.
This team is so far ahead of where it was at this point last year. Don't be brainwashed by "OHL cycle" or the fans from other teams coming in here wanting to grab players on the cheap. Run it back. If the Petes hadn't won the OHL last year would anyone be suggesting blowing up the first place team in the conference?
I know the thought was this team would struggle and a rebuild this season was the only way to go but that isn't the reality of the situation anymore.
I am aware of the opportunity cost of not trading away some of these players when they are at their peak value, to which I say... I don't care. The next couple years will be rough no matter what. So you're giving up on a team that could go deep in the playoffs again this year for a maybe that is at least three years away (Cameron's 19 year old season likely).
Draft picks are magic beans and there are always players you can move down the line. There is nothing they can/should do that will significantly improve the next couple seasons. We are talking about getting 07/08 guys or draft picks that become players even younger than that.
And then you're hoping that three years from now you can put together a team that maybe, possibly is as good as the one in front of us right now. I used to think that way too, the fantasy GM stuff is fun I guess, if you forget it's a bunch of 16-19 years olds lives you're just casually throwing around but the willingness to look at the team that is #8 in Canada and has shown they have a system that can win in the playoffs and want to blow it up for some sort of marginal improvement three years from now... I just don't get why fans seem so eager for it.
Section5Petes
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After watching this weeks OHL Podcast with Mike Farwell, I'm actually oddly starting to agree with this take and I don't know why. I think they need to see where they are at around the christmas break and early january as a losing slide could happen but if we get to the deadline and this team still has a great winning% Mike Oke has some tough decisions. Either way people are going to think he made the wrong choice but it's going to be interesting either way. The biggest thing is going to be to wait until the end of december and that time frame and really assess.
HockeyPops
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IMO that would mean next year being in a hole even deeper than Sarnia finds themselves in right now.
Nothing they do in trades this year is going to significantly impact next year. It's not like they're going to trade for a bunch of 18 year olds. It's going to picks and 16 year olds.
I don't believe next year will be that dire with the players who will be returning but even if it was, "next year" should have no bearing on this year. It's not going to move the needle. If you're talking about blowing it up, you're talking about 3-4 years down the road.
HockeyPops
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If you trade for 2 wingers this year, it will be hard to roster a team next year. You probably have to send out a young player or two to get the deals done because of your limited picks. The wingers that you bring in will be OAs next year (of which you now have 10) and you can only dress 3 each game. Because of all your graduations you will need to add 10 players to your roster next year so it's a given that you will roster 4 x 16 year olds, but you aren't picking in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th round this summer because you traded those picks away so your 16 year olds are probably not OHL ready. You can add a couple imports (hopefully), but you still need to find 4 more OHLers from previous drafts.
Sure, you will be able to trade off surplus OAs next summer to get some picks back, but probably not enough to restock picks cupboard back to neutral, and it doesn't address the need for OHL calibre players next season.
So au contraire, trades this year vastly affect next year.
Sure, you will be able to trade off surplus OAs next summer to get some picks back, but probably not enough to restock picks cupboard back to neutral, and it doesn't address the need for OHL calibre players next season.
So au contraire, trades this year vastly affect next year.
Wolves are not trading Villeneuve anyways, so this is a non-conversation. He's a key member of the team, filling in at various spots in the top 6, being their best faceoff guy, as well as playing the style of game that will be elite in the playoffs.
Caden Taylor is the guy the wolves will likely move, but I don't think they'll be interested in Beck, the Wolves are deep at center and need help in other places.
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