Peterborough Petes 2023-24 Season Thread (Part One)

[dirty12]

I think the Petes would also want draft picks in this deal.

Oake would probably accept immediately while experiencing a minor anxiety attack until the league made it official

 

[OMG67]

Fair, but I don’t think Villeneuve gets moved

I want Villeneuve in Ottawa! That kid is gonna be a player. I am surprised he is off to a slow start this season.

I think if Sudbury wants an impact player, I am not sure Beck is that guy. There is something about him that screams “lack of urgency.” He reminds me a lot of Dal Colle. Leaves a lot on the table and you always want more and it isn’t there. The ceiling is there but why he doesn’t seem to live up to it at this point doesn’t make a lot of sense. He has the tools to be dominant. Is he disinterested, lazy, or just going through the motions for a regular season?

 

[dirty12]

I want Villeneuve in Ottawa! That kid is gonna be a player. I am surprised he is off to a slow start this season.

I think if Sudbury wants an impact player, I am not sure Beck is that guy. There is something about him that screams “lack of urgency.” He reminds me a lot of Dal Colle. Leaves a lot on the table and you always want more and it isn’t there. The ceiling is there but why he doesn’t seem to live up to it at this point doesn’t make a lot of sense. He has the tools to be dominant. Is he disinterested, lazy, or just going through the motions for a regular season?

On Beck, it’s the coach/system imo. He was on a 40 goal pace before the trade last season. On a day the Petes want to load the top two lines, Beck gets LeFebvre as a winger…

Yeah, Villeneuve is gonna be a player. I had thought the wolves would expediate the break-out and showcase him a bit in his draft year by playing him with Musty and MacCallum. Now with Dvorsky in tow, there is little chance of that

 

[OMG67]

On Beck, it’s the coach/system imo. He was on a 40 goal pace before the trade last season. On a day the Petes want to load the top two lines, Beck gets LeFebvre as a winger…

Yeah, Villeneuve is gonna be a player. I had thought the wolves would expediate the break-out and showcase him a bit in his draft year by playing him with Musty and MacCallum. Now with Dvorsky in tow, there is little chance of that

But it looks more like effort with Beck. I understand the system being an issue but we saw that last year as well. He shouldn’t be just a point per game player.

I guess what I am getting at is if you are a team looking to add an “elite” centre, are you willing to part with a 2023 1st plus picks for Beck? I think there is some risk there. I am having the same feeling about Beck this year that I had with Wright last year because of how weak he “seemed” to perform the pervious year. Wright ended up at almost two points per game after the trade yet his cost was relatively low. Beck is a point per game this year and less than a point per game last year with the Petes. That isn’t screaming elite. It screams underachiever.

If I am the Petes, I am doing everything in my power to showcase Beck. I have him playing in a stacked first line and I lift the reigns in an effort to drive his value up. If the current staff is not doing everything possible to raise his value and are potentially sabotaging his value, that should be a concern in my opinion.

 

[dirty12]

But it looks more like effort with Beck. I understand the system being an issue but we saw that last year as well. He shouldn’t be just a point per game player.

I guess what I am getting at is if you are a team looking to add an “elite” centre, are you willing to part with a 2023 1st plus picks for Beck? I think there is some risk there. I am having the same feeling about Beck this year that I had with Wright last year because of how weak he “seemed” to perform the pervious year. Wright ended up at almost two points per game after the trade yet his cost was relatively low. Beck is a point per game this year and less than a point per game last year with the Petes. That isn’t screaming elite. It screams underachiever.

If I am the Petes, I am doing everything in my power to showcase Beck. I have him playing in a stacked first line and I lift the reigns in an effort to drive his value up. If the current staff is not doing everything possible to raise his value and are potentially sabotaging his value, that should be a concern in my opinion.

I think in trading for O.Beck you want pt/g + but expect the best FO%, defensive forward, and hitter that hurts.
And you know you’re getting a winner that can fit in any role on a championship calibre team.

 

[Petes]

Sudbury getting smacked by the Soo tonight… a shutdown two way F sure would help

 

[Petes1987]

I want Villeneuve in Ottawa! That kid is gonna be a player. I am surprised he is off to a slow start this season.

I think if Sudbury wants an impact player, I am not sure Beck is that guy. There is something about him that screams “lack of urgency.” He reminds me a lot of Dal Colle. Leaves a lot on the table and you always want more and it isn’t there. The ceiling is there but why he doesn’t seem to live up to it at this point doesn’t make a lot of sense. He has the tools to be dominant. Is he disinterested, lazy, or just going through the motions for a regular season?

Have you seen Owen Beck on play recently? After a slow start in which he had no goals and only one assist in 6 games he has had in the last 8 games 6 goals and 6 assists for 12 points. He has been dominant on face offs all season winning 216 face offs and having a 60.5 face off win percentage. It is not all about offence. Anybody that wants to win a championship needs an Owen Beck on their team. Someone who wins most face offs, plays a 200 foot game, can shutdown other team’s top centres and can chip in on offence.

 

[OMG67]

Have you seen Owen Beck on play recently? After a slow start in which he had no goals and only one assist in 6 games he has had in the last 8 games 6 goals and 6 assists for 12 points. He has been dominant on face offs all season winning 216 face offs and having a 60.5 face off win percentage. It is not all about offence. Anybody that wants to win a championship needs an Owen Beck on their team. Someone who wins most face offs, plays a 200 foot game, can shutdown other team’s top centres and can chip in on offence.

Is that a 2023 1st plus picks? That is what I question in this trade market.

At the beginning of the season, I had a hard time not seeing that no matter the status of the trade market. Right now? I dunno.

 

[dirty12]

Is that a 2023 1st plus picks? That is what I question in this trade market.

Yes, without a doubt I think.

At the beginning of the season, I had a hard time not seeing that no matter the status of the trade market. Right now? I dunno.

 

[GoFronts]

I don’t think Kingston is a serious threat. Their defence and goaltending is suspect and when they line up against up tempo teams, they tend to fold. They do have picks in hand so they could actually do something this year and be a player if they choose to. I think they are more likely to tinker a bit.

I don't know about serious, but they're definitely a threat since Troy Mann took over behind the bench. Fronts are 6-2 since he took over and the difference in their play since the change is night and day. Mason Vaccari steals games for them and is severely underrated when talking about the best goalies in the league.

I agree their defence is suspect, but it has improved under Mann and is a work in progress. Up front, they have great forward depth and the way they're set up now, all four lines have been contributing on the scoresheet.

In an eastern conference as wide open as it is this year, I'd say Kingston has as good a chance as anyone. They can go for it if they want to this year if things are still this wide open at the deadline.

 

[Petes]

I don't know about serious, but they're definitely a threat since Troy Mann took over behind the bench. Fronts are 6-2 since he took over and the difference in their play since the change is night and day. Mason Vaccari steals games for them and is severely underrated when talking about the best goalies in the league.

I agree their defence is suspect, but it has improved under Mann and is a work in progress. Up front, they have great forward depth and the way they're set up now, all four lines have been contributing on the scoresheet.

In an eastern conference as wide open as it is this year, I'd say Kingston has as good a chance as anyone. They can go for it if they want to this year if things are still this wide open at the deadline.

What does KGN have in terms of young players to trade? Will they really move a Frasca or Hopkins to get a big deal done?

 

[zaluty]

What does KGN have in terms of young players to trade? Will they really move a Frasca or Hopkins to get a big deal done?

I do not think they will this year, possibly next year.

 

[GoFronts]

What does KGN have in terms of young players to trade? Will they really move a Frasca or Hopkins to get a big deal done?

That's just it. It's tough to say really. Outside of OA's, Ludwinski is the only guy that's a lock (99%) to be moving on next year. Do they risk it now or go all in next year...which is clearly what they're planning for based on roster construction. Is there a way to go for it both years without sacrificing a big piece for next year? Tough to say.

Frasca is close to coming back from an injury and he hasn't even played a game yet this year, so his value wouldn't be at its highest, and Hopkins has to be seen as a big piece moving forward. I'd say the only way that Hopkins gets moved is if they trade for a guy who will be here both this year and next, which is hard to predict. Other than those two, candidates for a trade would be Outwater who is a good player but he's already 18 and doesn't fit into Mann's top 6 when everyone is healthy... and Battaglia, who is in his draft year but is breaking out and flourishing under Mann on the top line beside Ludwinski and Soto.

 

[OMG67]

That's just it. It's tough to say really. Outside of OA's, Ludwinski is the only guy that's a lock (99%) to be moving on next year. Do they risk it now or go all in next year...which is clearly what they're planning for based on roster construction. Is there a way to go for it both years without sacrificing a big piece for next year? Tough to say.

Frasca is close to coming back from an injury and he hasn't even played a game yet this year, so his value wouldn't be at its highest, and Hopkins has to be seen as a big piece moving forward. I'd say the only way that Hopkins gets moved is if they trade for a guy who will be here both this year and next, which is hard to predict. Other than those two, candidates for a trade would be Outwater who is a good player but he's already 18 and doesn't fit into Mann's top 6 when everyone is healthy... and Battaglia, who is in his draft year but is breaking out and flourishing under Mann on the top line beside Ludwinski and Soto.

That’s my read. They do have a couple 2nds in 2024 they can use as trade pieces but I am not too sure they will do anything other than tinker. I think the runway is there for them to finish in and around the 4-5 slot which is good enough to help with the development. Let the full team return next year.

I think Missy and Kingston are in the same sort of situation with respect to where they are int he competitive cycle. If Kingston were to push one of their two 2nds in 2024 ahead to the 2025 draft, they’d strategically be better suited to buy next year.

HOWEVER, they don’t really have three ‘04s that jump out as obvious top of roster OA’s. So, if there are one or two 19 years that become available that would be obvious OAs next year, I could see them add there. Acquire a two season player.

Yes, without a doubt I think.

We shall see. I think it will more come down to how many elite level players become available and how many teams will be trying to acquire one.

 

[dirty12]

That’s my read. They do have a couple 2nds in 2024 they can use as trade pieces but I am not too sure they will do anything other than tinker. I think the runway is there for them to finish in and around the 4-5 slot which is good enough to help with the development. Let the full team return next year.

I think Missy and Kingston are in the same sort of situation with respect to where they are int he competitive cycle. If Kingston were to push one of their two 2nds in 2024 ahead to the 2025 draft, they’d strategically be better suited to buy next year.

HOWEVER, they don’t really have three ‘04s that jump out as obvious top of roster OA’s. So, if there are one or two 19 years that become available that would be obvious OAs next year, I could see them add there. Acquire a two season player.


We shall see. I think it will more come down to how many elite level players become available and how many teams will be trying to acquire one.

I’ll guess not many, but of the top forwards Beck will be the safest as you can’t go wrong with his 200’ game and comfort of knowing he can fit in

 

[OMG67]

I’ll guess not many, but of the top forwards Beck will be the safest as you can’t go wrong with his 200’ game and comfort of knowing he can fit in

We can agree on that.

I’m not 100% sold on his overall offence. That may relegate him into the category of a good 17 year old and picks instead of the 16 year old. I think his performance in the WJHC will have a strong say in his final value. If he plays that role with Team Canada and is a standout, then I think you are correct. If he plays 3rd or 4th line centre and is inconsequential? I’m not sure the assessment on his game is quite as lofty as many think.

I think he is that really solid NHL prospect 2nd line centre. Sometimes that is very valuable at the OHL Level but usually those players still produce at a 90 point pace. That still concerns me about Beck. Regardless of his defensive game, he really should be a 90-100 point player. Maybe he can do it on a stronger team but he was on a strong team last year and didn’t do it.

This is why I have reservations. Sometimes certain players hit a ceiling earlier than expected. My fear is that may apply to Beck. Not saying that is certain but it is a fear.

 

[dirty12]

We can agree on that.

I’m not 100% sold on his overall offence. That may relegate him into the category of a good 17 year old and picks instead of the 16 year old. I think his performance in the WJHC will have a strong say in his final value. If he plays that role with Team Canada and is a standout, then I think you are correct. If he plays 3rd or 4th line centre and is inconsequential? I’m not sure the assessment on his game is quite as lofty as many think.

I think he is that really solid NHL prospect 2nd line centre. Sometimes that is very valuable at the OHL Level but usually those players still produce at a 90 point pace. That still concerns me about Beck. Regardless of his defensive game, he really should be a 90-100 point player. Maybe he can do it on a stronger team but he was on a strong team last year and didn’t do it.

This is why I have reservations. Sometimes certain players hit a ceiling earlier than expected. My fear is that may apply to Beck. Not saying that is certain but it is a fear.

Contending teams would rather part with a 16 yr old.

Othman went from 50 goals to around a 30 goal pace, so I don’t think basing Beck’s offensive ceiling on his time with Petes would right.
And Beck will be the go to checking line centre with Canada, so I would not base his OHL ceiling on that either.

 

[Petes1987]

We can agree on that.

I’m not 100% sold on his overall offence. That may relegate him into the category of a good 17 year old and picks instead of the 16 year old. I think his performance in the WJHC will have a strong say in his final value. If he plays that role with Team Canada and is a standout, then I think you are correct. If he plays 3rd or 4th line centre and is inconsequential? I’m not sure the assessment on his game is quite as lofty as many think.

I think he is that really solid NHL prospect 2nd line centre. Sometimes that is very valuable at the OHL Level but usually those players still produce at a 90 point pace. That still concerns me about Beck. Regardless of his defensive game, he really should be a 90-100 point player. Maybe he can do it on a stronger team but he was on a strong team last year and didn’t do it.

This is why I have reservations. Sometimes certain players hit a ceiling earlier than expected. My fear is that may apply to Beck. Not saying that is certain but it is a fear.

He is producing with the Petes. After a slow start to the season where he only had one point in in his first 6 games he went on to have 12 points in his next 8 games. The offence is there.

 

[PuckStop75]

He is producing with the Petes. After a slow start to the season where he only had one point in in his first 6 games he went on to have 12 points in his next 8 games. The offence is there.

I would use Akil Thomas trade to the Petes a few years back as the high water mark for Beck. Petes gave up 17yo Butler, 2-2nds, 3rd and 4th. Thomas was 100+pt guy coming off the Gold Medal winning goal so it will take something special to get to that level.

 

[Petes]

I would use Akil Thomas trade to the Petes a few years back as the high water mark for Beck. Petes gave up 17yo Butler, 2-2nds, 3rd and 4th. Thomas was 100+pt guy coming off the Gold Medal winning goal so it will take something special to get to that level.

But it was only Butler because J.R Avon used his NTC. Lol

 

[PuckStop75]

But it was only Butler because J.R Avon used his NTC. Lol

Lol... I assume the extra 2nd rounder was a result of that

 

[User13452]

Don’t think Saginaw would be in on Mayer anymore if I had to guess Mayer will be traded to either Ottawa sudbury or Mississauga

 

[OMG67]

Contending teams would rather part with a 16 yr old.

Othman went from 50 goals to around a 30 goal pace, so I don’t think basing Beck’s offensive ceiling on his time with Petes would right.
And Beck will be the go to checking line centre with Canada, so I would not base his OHL ceiling on that either.

That's very possible, especially if it reduces the number of picks also included.

Don’t think Saginaw would be in on Mayer anymore if I had to guess Mayer will be traded to either Ottawa sudbury or Mississauga

Sudbury is the team IMO. They have the biggest need and the right type of assets to flip.

 

[Section7fan]

All these arm chair OHL GMs claiming our players are worth scraps are funny.

 

[Section5Petes]

All these arm chair OHL GMs claiming our players are worth scraps are funny.

And for once I had nothing to do with it