Peterborough Petes 2022-23 Season Thread (Part 2)

[User13452]

i seriously didnt know this

Yes same as the Nhl. It’ll become a factor after the first round when the matchups are tougher

 

[dirty12]

Home team gets last change which favours them because they can match who they want against each line

In the east only NB can to a small extent can gain an advantage with last change vs the Petes.
Othmann-Beck-Hayes
Avon-Robertson-Lockhart
Meelee-Stillman-Dubois/Purdeller
Pick any eastern conference team and match lines so I can see what you’re concerned about.

 

[Zebra]

The last time we beat NB in a game -I think we have to go back to 2019

I look forward to finally beating them atleast

 

[NorthernVoice]

I'm not concerned about the Petes depth. The top 7 forwards are so far and away above the rest and they'll be playing the vast majority of time in the playoffs.

Also if you really want to get into who has how many ten goal scorers or whatever the measure is, the Petes could very easily go:

Avon - Robertson - Lockhart
Othmann - Beck - Melee
Hayes - Dubois - Stillman

Or something like that and you can bet your ass Melee and Dubois will start piling up the points.

Having White to get the puck up the ice smoothly will make a huge difference as well.

 

[Section5Petes]

I'm not concerned about the Petes depth. The top 7 forwards are so far and away above the rest and they'll be playing the vast majority of time in the playoffs.

Also if you really want to get into who has how many ten goal scorers or whatever the measure is, the Petes could very easily go:

Avon - Robertson - Lockhart
Othmann - Beck - Melee
Hayes - Dubois - Stillman

Or something like that and you can bet your ass Melee and Dubois will start piling up the points.

Having White to get the puck up the ice smoothly will make a huge difference as well.

When you break things down like that, nobody can even come close to that top 9. That could be a combination at some point this season too and it’s absurd!

 

[AGranderson]

I'm not concerned about the Petes depth. The top 7 forwards are so far and away above the rest and they'll be playing the vast majority of time in the playoffs.

Also if you really want to get into who has how many ten goal scorers or whatever the measure is, the Petes could very easily go:

Avon - Robertson - Lockhart
Othmann - Beck - Melee
Hayes - Dubois - Stillman

Or something like that and you can bet your ass Melee and Dubois will start piling up the points.

Having White to get the puck up the ice smoothly will make a huge difference as well.

Cooper Foster~Logan Morrison~Jack Beck
Luca Pinelli~Vinzenz Rohrer~Will Gerrior
Brady Stonehouse~Cameron Tolnai~Ty Boucher
Chris Barlas~Brad Gardiner~Jack Dever

 

[NorthernVoice]

Cooper Foster~Logan Morrison~Jack Beck
Luca Pinelli~Vinzenz Rohrer~Will Gerrior
Brady Stonehouse~Cameron Tolnai~Ty Boucher
Chris Barlas~Brad Gardiner~Jack Dever

*fart noise*

 

[NorthernVoice]

Are we supposed to be intimidated by a team with Cooper Foster and Will Gerrior in it's top 6.

LOL.

And if Ottawa stacks up those lines, again, their top 7 doesn't nearly match Othmann, Beck, Avon, Robertson, Lockhart, Hayes, Stillman

 

[OMG67]

Petes have way better offence then them though

You sure about that?

Petes deleted Lardis, Panwar, DeZoete and VanVolsen = 34 goals
Petes added Beck, White, Hayes and Othmann = 55
Differential = + 21

Ottawa added Morrison and Mintyukov = 36
Ottawa deleted NO ONE
Differential = +36

North Bay hasn’t added anyone recently but they are 25 goals ahead of Peterborough. If they keep the same pace and Peterborough picks up their pace by 21….they are effectively the same In the aggregate.

Ottawa currently sits 20 goals for ahead of Peterborough. In the aggregate, Ottawa added 15 more goals at the deadline than Peterborough. If Ottawa keeps pace with their first half, they will score more goals in the second half than Peterborough.

I’d be a little concerned about suggesting the Petes have the best offence. Just because it is top heavy through 7 players, doesn’t mean it is the best. You have a combined 15 goals from the remainder of your forwards after your top 7. 128 from your top 7. Top heavy rosters Rely on the same players every night. They cannot take a night off. IF they do, there is no one to pick up the slack. Injuries? Ouch. No viable replacements.

Other than Othmann gone to Team Canada, the Petes best players have not missed more than a game here or there. So, you can’t point to injuries like North Bay missing McDonald for over half a season or Ottawa missing beck for over half a season.

So, even though Peterborough added three really good offensive players (plus Othmann earlier), they had to delete a bunch to make that happen. You really need to consider that. Those players are an upgrade for replaced players. Ottawa injected offence at the expense of dropping players further down their depth chart to extend their depth. They may lose goals in the 2nd half from Gardiner dropped to the 4th line but not much else.

I’d look a little deeper at “offence” as opposed to the first line. First line vs First line, I’d say they are probably better. After that? Not so much.

 

[OMG67]

Cooper Foster~Logan Morrison~Jack Beck
Luca Pinelli~Vinzenz Rohrer~Will Gerrior
Brady Stonehouse~Cameron Tolnai~Ty Boucher
Chris Barlas~Brad Gardiner~Jack Dever

That isn’t the problem for the Petes. The matchups that are the problem are:

Mayich-Matier (25 minutes)
Mintyukov-Costantini (25 minutes)

Not a lot of room to make plays in our D-Zone

Say what you want about offence. There is a reason why defence wins championships.

 

[User13452]

You sure about that?

Petes deleted Lardis, Panwar, DeZoete and VanVolsen = 34 goals
Petes added Beck, White, Hayes and Othmann = 55
Differential = + 21

Ottawa added Morrison and Mintyukov = 36
Ottawa deleted NO ONE
Differential = +36

North Bay hasn’t added anyone recently but they are 25 goals ahead of Peterborough. If they keep the same pace and Peterborough picks up their pace by 21….they are effectively the same In the aggregate.

Ottawa currently sits 20 goals for ahead of Peterborough. In the aggregate, Ottawa added 15 more goals at the deadline than Peterborough. If Ottawa keeps pace with their first half, they will score more goals in the second half than Peterborough.

I’d be a little concerned about suggesting the Petes have the best offence. Just because it is top heavy through 7 players, doesn’t mean it is the best. You have a combined 15 goals from the remainder of your forwards after your top 7. 128 from your top 7. Top heavy rosters Rely on the same players every night. They cannot take a night off. IF they do, there is no one to pick up the slack. Injuries? Ouch. No viable replacements.

Other than Othmann gone to Team Canada, the Petes best players have not missed more than a game here or there. So, you can’t point to injuries like North Bay missing McDonald for over half a season or Ottawa missing beck for over half a season.

So, even though Peterborough added three really good offensive players (plus Othmann earlier), they had to delete a bunch to make that happen. You really need to consider that. Those players are an upgrade for replaced players. Ottawa injected offence at the expense of dropping players further down their depth chart to extend their depth. They may lose goals in the 2nd half from Gardiner dropped to the 4th line but not much else.

I’d look a little deeper at “offence” as opposed to the first line. First line vs First line, I’d say they are probably better. After that? Not so much.

I agree I’m worried about the depth after the top 7 and outside of white and Mayer who’s contributing from the blue line?

 

[OMG67]

I agree I’m worried about the depth after the top 7 and outside of white and Mayer who’s contributing from the blue line?

The defence is fine enough. Decent mix of scoring and defence. The goaltending is pretty good. I wouldn’t worry about the back end too much. The issue is making sure the top 2 lines score 4+ goals per game in the playoffs against strong competition.

 

[User13452]

The defence is fine enough. Decent mix of scoring and defence. The goaltending is pretty good. I wouldn’t worry about the back end too much. The issue is making sure the top 2 lines score 4+ goals per game in the playoffs against strong competition.

They will live or die by the top 2 lines we shall see how it goes exciting nonetheless

 

[NorthernVoice]

You sure about that?

Petes deleted Lardis, Panwar, DeZoete and VanVolsen = 34 goals
Petes added Beck, White, Hayes and Othmann = 55
Differential = + 21

Ottawa added Morrison and Mintyukov = 36
Ottawa deleted NO ONE
Differential = +36

North Bay hasn’t added anyone recently but they are 25 goals ahead of Peterborough. If they keep the same pace and Peterborough picks up their pace by 21….they are effectively the same In the aggregate.

Ottawa currently sits 20 goals for ahead of Peterborough. In the aggregate, Ottawa added 15 more goals at the deadline than Peterborough. If Ottawa keeps pace with their first half, they will score more goals in the second half than Peterborough.

I’d be a little concerned about suggesting the Petes have the best offence. Just because it is top heavy through 7 players, doesn’t mean it is the best. You have a combined 15 goals from the remainder of your forwards after your top 7. 128 from your top 7. Top heavy rosters Rely on the same players every night. They cannot take a night off. IF they do, there is no one to pick up the slack. Injuries? Ouch. No viable replacements.

Other than Othmann gone to Team Canada, the Petes best players have not missed more than a game here or there. So, you can’t point to injuries like North Bay missing McDonald for over half a season or Ottawa missing beck for over half a season.

So, even though Peterborough added three really good offensive players (plus Othmann earlier), they had to delete a bunch to make that happen. You really need to consider that. Those players are an upgrade for replaced players. Ottawa injected offence at the expense of dropping players further down their depth chart to extend their depth. They may lose goals in the 2nd half from Gardiner dropped to the 4th line but not much else.

I’d look a little deeper at “offence” as opposed to the first line. First line vs First line, I’d say they are probably better. After that? Not so much.

Yes I'm sure.

 

[OMG67]

Yes I'm sure.

And you’d be wrong.

 

[Bra Wavers]

I'm not concerned about the Petes depth. The top 7 forwards are so far and away above the rest and they'll be playing the vast majority of time in the playoffs.

Also if you really want to get into who has how many ten goal scorers or whatever the measure is, the Petes could very easily go:

Avon - Robertson - Lockhart
Othmann - Beck - Melee
Hayes - Dubois - Stillman

Or something like that and you can bet your ass Melee and Dubois will start piling up the points.

Having White to get the puck up the ice smoothly will make a huge difference as well.

The great news is that Wilson and the coaching staff have time to sort all of these things out. IMO the lines above won't work unless having Melee and Hayes play on their off-wings is OK.

OPTION A
Avon - Robertson - Lockhart
Othmann - Beck - Hayes
Melee - Dubois - Stillman

OPTION B
Avon - Robertson - Lockhart
Melee - Beck - Hayes
Othmann - Dubois - Stillman

OPTION A has the first two lines doing the heavy lifting for scoring.
OPTION B is more balanced when it comes to scoring.

If the lines in OPTION A and OPTION B can score the same total goals, is OPTION B better to spread the offense out?

The PP units will still be loaded with the top guys which should give the Petes the edge against most teams.

 

[dirty12]

Might compare favourably to the colts, though very distant 3rd in conference.

Cooper Foster~Logan Morrison~Jack Beck
Luca Pinelli~Vinzenz Rohrer~Will Gerrior
Brady Stonehouse~Cameron Tolnai~Ty Boucher
Chris Barlas~Brad Gardiner~Jack Dever

 

[dirty12]

You sure about that?

Petes deleted Lardis, Panwar, DeZoete and VanVolsen = 34 goals
Petes added Beck, White, Hayes and Othmann = 55
Differential = + 21

Ottawa added Morrison and Mintyukov = 36
Ottawa deleted NO ONE
Differential = +36

North Bay hasn’t added anyone recently but they are 25 goals ahead of Peterborough. If they keep the same pace and Peterborough picks up their pace by 21….they are effectively the same In the aggregate.

Ottawa currently sits 20 goals for ahead of Peterborough. In the aggregate, Ottawa added 15 more goals at the deadline than Peterborough. If Ottawa keeps pace with their first half, they will score more goals in the second half than Peterborough.

I’d be a little concerned about suggesting the Petes have the best offence. Just because it is top heavy through 7 players, doesn’t mean it is the best. You have a combined 15 goals from the remainder of your forwards after your top 7. 128 from your top 7. Top heavy rosters Rely on the same players every night. They cannot take a night off. IF they do, there is no one to pick up the slack. Injuries? Ouch. No viable replacements.

Other than Othmann gone to Team Canada, the Petes best players have not missed more than a game here or there. So, you can’t point to injuries like North Bay missing McDonald for over half a season or Ottawa missing beck for over half a season.

So, even though Peterborough added three really good offensive players (plus Othmann earlier), they had to delete a bunch to make that happen. You really need to consider that. Those players are an upgrade for replaced players. Ottawa injected offence at the expense of dropping players further down their depth chart to extend their depth. They may lose goals in the 2nd half from Gardiner dropped to the 4th line but not much else.

I’d look a little deeper at “offence” as opposed to the first line. First line vs First line, I’d say they are probably better. After that? Not so much.

The Petes have the better offence, no amount of Mntyukov changes that. I’m sorry if you find that disrespectful. The Petes top six simply blows the ‘67s away. Stillman and Meelee can limit any damage by any of the ‘67s lines.

 

[ptbopete]

I don't get the "my team is better than your team" chatter here. It doesn't really matter does it? There are four legit teams in the East and even some potential upsets come playoff time. You never know. And al the talk about goal-scoring being the top indicator of success.....horse hockey! In the playoffs, what wins is not only goals but, team chemistry, stamina, goaltending, defense, coaching and avoiding injuries and penalties. We know that the Petes have a lot of the ingredients to win though team chemistry will reset what with all the new players. I'm not worried though, it's a mature group.

The value of players like Melee and Dubois can be measured by their plus-minus, face-off wins and occasional production. Hard work beats talent and the Petes are a hard-working team. Go Petes.

 

[OMG67]

The Petes have the better offence, no amount of Mntyukov changes that. I’m sorry if you find that disrespectful. The Petes top six simply blows the ‘67s away. Stillman and Meelee can limit any damage by any of the ‘67s lines.

Top 6 vs Top 6 I agree. Goals for(which is a direct result of offence)? They are not. I have the stats to prove it. You don’t.

I don’t believe anyone can suggest the Petes have the best offence. Both NorthBay and Ottawa have demonstrated better offence to date. Petes added dynamic players but had to delete good players to do it. You can’t just assume the players being brought in will not only score what they did in the first half but also replace all the goals scored by the outgoing players in the second half. Even if they did, all North Bay and Ottawa would need to do is replicate their production in the second half. If that all happens, there is a whisker between the three teams that puts them on the same level.

To suggest any of the three teams to have the better offence is wrong. The three teams are not dissimilar enough in goals for as a team. Ignoring sources of offence and only looking at 1/3 of a roster and making a declaration without the stats to prove it doesn’t make it so.

We will see how it plays out in the second half.

I’m sorry if my argument isn’t just a blanket one line proclamation with no facts or data to back it up. Just because a person says so, doesn’t make it so. I come armed with facts to back up my claims. I challenge others to do so. If you don’t, then you prove nothing. You are just pulling it out of thin air.

Disagree? Prove it.

 

[NorthernVoice]

Top 6 vs Top 6 I agree. Goals for(which is a direct result of offence)? They are not. I have the stats to prove it. You don’t.

Ottawa has managed five goals in two of their last eight games. Peterborough has scored five or more in seven of their last eight. Without Othmann or Beck or Hayes or White.

We all know Ottawa had a hot start/peaked early but their offense going forward just does not compare. I'm sorry, it doesn't. That doesn't mean they can't beat the Petes in a playoff series.

But their current form isn't equal to Peterborough and their high end talent isn't equal. But again, you belabor points for so long and it's just exhausting. The trade deadline has passed, we will see what happens in the coming weeks. No one can "prove" anything, what happened in the first thirty games is largely irrelevant to playoff success and this entire discussion is pointless.

 

[OMG67]

Ottawa has managed five goals in two of their last eight games. Peterborough has scored five or more in seven of their last eight. Without Othmann or Beck or Hayes or White.

We all know Ottawa had a hot start/peaked early but their offense going forward just does not compare. I'm sorry, it doesn't. That doesn't mean they can't beat the Petes in a playoff series.

But their current form isn't equal to Peterborough and their high end talent isn't equal. But again, you belabor points for so long and it's just exhausting. The trade deadline has passed, we will see what happens in the coming weeks. No one can "prove" anything, what happened in the first thirty games is largely irrelevant to playoff success and this entire discussion is pointless.

Ottawa had three players at the WJHC and Jack Beck just returned this past weekend after missing around 25 games.

They were playing games for two weeks (one week before Christmas and one week after Christmas) with 16 skaters, 9 of which were 16 and 17 years old.

If you are suggesting the Ottawa team was at full power or even close to it during the last dozen or so games, it wouldn’t be accurate.

Generally speaking, taking a small snapshot around Christmas for any team is not ideal. Not only to many of the top teams have players missing but it is an opportunity for many to bring up some young players and give them some ice when their games don’t count towards their affiliate card. Additionally, team focus can be off, especially the last weekend before Christmas. I wouldn’t put much stock in it either way.

We have a sample size of over 30 games to judge teams. Reducing that sample size in an effort to cherry pick isn’t an ideal way to make a point. Too many minor variables like players in tourneys, illness, injuries and suspensions can adversely affect a team over a very short period. Using the longer period is a more accurate reflection.

The exception may be at the very beginning of a season when a team is awaiting the return of players from NHL camps. Deleting the first three games of so is reasonable under those circumstances.

 

[OMG67]

Ottawa has managed five goals in two of their last eight games. Peterborough has scored five or more in seven of their last eight. Without Othmann or Beck or Hayes or White.

We all know Ottawa had a hot start/peaked early but their offense going forward just does not compare. I'm sorry, it doesn't. That doesn't mean they can't beat the Petes in a playoff series.

But their current form isn't equal to Peterborough and their high end talent isn't equal. But again, you belabor points for so long and it's just exhausting. The trade deadline has passed, we will see what happens in the coming weeks. No one can "prove" anything, what happened in the first thirty games is largely irrelevant to playoff success and this entire discussion is pointless.

Also keep in mind that when you say a team or players has done “X” over a short period of time, it is no different than someone saying player “x” (after 10 games and 15 goals) is on pace to score 100.

Teams, lines, and players go on streaks. It happens. Good and bad streaks. This is why I am saying take the longer sample size and you’re likely to be more accurate.

 

[NorthernVoice]

Also keep in mind that when you say a team or players has done “X” over a short period of time, it is no different than someone saying player “x” (after 10 games and 15 goals) is on pace to score 100.

Teams, lines, and players go on streaks. It happens. Good and bad streaks. This is why I am saying take the longer sample size and you’re likely to be more accurate.

The sample size for both these rosters as currently constructed is zero games. If you really feel the games played at the start of the season have great relevance to how the rest of the season will go, fill your boots. I probably would too if I was a 67s fan - but these aren't the same teams they were in October, so that "sample" becomes irrelevant because the variables have so significantly changed.

 

[dirty12]

Top 6 vs Top 6 I agree. Goals for(which is a direct result of offence)? They are not. I have the stats to prove it. You don’t.

I don’t believe anyone can suggest the Petes have the best offence. Both NorthBay and Ottawa have demonstrated better offence to date. Petes added dynamic players but had to delete good players to do it. You can’t just assume the players being brought in will not only score what they did in the first half but also replace all the goals scored by the outgoing players in the second half. Even if they did, all North Bay and Ottawa would need to do is replicate their production in the second half. If that all happens, there is a whisker between the three teams that puts them on the same level.

To suggest any of the three teams to have the better offence is wrong. The three teams are not dissimilar enough in goals for as a team. Ignoring sources of offence and only looking at 1/3 of a roster and making a declaration without the stats to prove it doesn’t make it so.

We will see how it plays out in the second half.

I’m sorry if my argument isn’t just a blanket one line proclamation with no facts or data to back it up. Just because a person says so, doesn’t make it so. I come armed with facts to back up my claims. I challenge others to do so. If you don’t, then you prove nothing. You are just pulling it out of thin air.

Disagree? Prove it.

I’m sure the ‘67s will score plenty vs the weaker six. You pull out all the October data and present it as you like. But the Petes top six after the deadline is so much better than anything the ‘67s can put together imo that there is no logical argument you can make to have me believe the ‘67s offence is just as good