Peter Chiarelli Appreciation Thread

[CantHaveTkachev]

Trading a 50 point player for a 30 point player is a downgrade, yes. Please tell me how it isn't.

because Chia expected other players (Slep, Caggulia, Puljujarvi) to pick up the slack
he "downgraded" in one position, but expected younger players to continue to improve and make this team better

 

[Soundwave]

Absolutely not. Not a single even strength goal for the entire bottom 6 is a legitimate concern. Kassian? Pakarainen? Letestu? Jokinen? All completely goalless at even strength. You need depth to win and if you can't see that then I honestly can't help you.

I'm not going to put blame on a line that scored ~20 goals each last season when the entire bottom six has contributed exactly NOTHING to this team.

It's truly amazing how having the second worst offense in the league is okay to some people. What are we? New Jersey? Oh wait they're completely killing us in scoring.

Yeah well New Jersey has Taylor Hall, so that probably has a lot to do with it.

Would be nice to have that player right about now.

We aren't that talented, or what talent we have 1/2 of it is not interested in playing to their potential, so it is what it is. That's a foundational problem with the team though, not specifically depth.

If Evgeni Malkin is content playing at 60% of his ability, there's no "depth" move Pittsburgh can make to replace that.

We have a good chunk of our core that is content with that though. Mediocrity shouldn't be a surprise when a good chunk of your roster accept mediocre play from themselves.

 

[MinimaMoralia]

because Chia expected other players (Slep, Caggulia, Puljujarvi) to pick up the slack
he "downgraded" in one position, but expected younger players to continue to improve and make this team better

And that's just terrible management, guys, lets face it. Its better to improve, or at least draw even, than betting the season on magic beans and crystal balls.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Yeah well New Jersey has Taylor Hall, so that probably has a lot to do with it.

Would be nice to have that player right about now.

We aren't that talented, or what talent we have 1/2 of it is not interested in playing to their potential, so it is what it is. That's a foundational problem with the team though, not specifically depth.

they had him last year too, didn't help

NJ had a much better offensive core around Hall, including a recent #1 pick

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

because Chia expected other players (Slep, Caggulia, Puljujarvi) to pick up the slack
he "downgraded" in one position, but expected younger players to continue to improve and make this team better

If Chiarelli expected everyone on the roster to take a step forward then he needs to see his eye doctor. It was so obvious that everything wasn't going to be the same.

Upgrade the wings and defense. It doesn't take a genius to see those are points of concern.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

And that's just terrible management, guys, lets face it. Its better to improve, or at least draw even, than betting the season on magic beans and crystal balls.

so Chia is the only GM to expects young players...especially ones to had good playoffs...to improve?

 

[Soundwave]

they had him last year too, didn't help

NJ had a much better offensive core around Hall, including a recent #1 pick

Yeah I like Nico Heischier. I like Connor McDavid better though. We should have kept our group. New Jersey is not some All-Star team.

 

[Soundwave]

If Chiarelli expected everyone on the roster to take a step forward then he needs to see his eye doctor. It was so obvious that everything wasn't going to be the same.

Upgrade the wings and defense. It doesn't take a genius to see those are points of concern.

Great we just needed two 2nd line players (since Lucic and RNH are not interested) and a top 4 D. The last top 4 D cost us Taylor Hall, got any of those lying around? Why don't you specifically state of the available players last summer who you would have targeted if it's so straight forward?

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Yeah I like Nico Heischier. I like Connor McDavid better though. We should have kept our group. New Jersey is not some All-Star team.

yeah, who needs defense? bring back the group who get pounded on a nightly basis to 10 straight seasons of no playoffs!

 

[Spawn]

because Chia expected other players (Slep, Caggulia, Puljujarvi) to pick up the slack
he "downgraded" in one position, but expected younger players to continue to improve and make this team better

It wasn't that hard to predict that one or more of Slepyshev, Cags or Puljujarvi would struggle this season. None of them amounted to anything all of last season.

These were concerns raised in the off-season by many. There was far too much "hope" with Chia's plan in the summer. It's frankly the type of management that MacT and Tambo did before him. Banked on young, unproven players to play key roles and then when they couldn't the team was left scrambling and in a position of weakness trying to address the issue.

Now next summer when we're desperate for some scoring and Chia pays through the nose for someone everyone will be saying "well everyone knew we needed a scoring forward so we had no choice!"

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

so Chia is the only GM to expects young players...especially ones to had good playoffs...to improve?

Who gives a f*** what the other teams do? That's them, this is us. The Oilers had a lot go right for them last year and Chiarelli should've brought in some insurance just in case players faltered.

Great we just needed two 2nd line players (since Lucic and RNH are not interested) and a top 4 D. The last top 4 D cost us Taylor Hall, got any of those lying around? Why don't you specifically state of the available players last summer who you would have targeted if it's so straight forward?

I don't know who's available. Do you? I'm guessing not. Did we know Adam Larsson was available when he was traded for Hall? Probably not.

My point is he should've upgraded and he didn't and now the team doesn't even look like a playoff team. Aren't we supposed to be shooting for the Cup? But hey we can trade 2nd line players for bottom 6ers...

 

[MinimaMoralia]

so Chia is the only GM to expects young players...especially ones to had good playoffs...to improve?

Of course not. But you'd think they've seen it enough to learn. Stop hitching your wagon to young horses. Enough teams have tanked following this method, that perhaps, just perhaps, they might try having another idea in mind.

 

[Soundwave]

yeah, who needs defense? bring back the group who get pounded on a nightly basis to 10 straight seasons of no playoffs!

If it's one good year followed by one year of regression, I'll take a more steady rebuild.

What came before McDavid is irrelevant. By trading Hall we structurally placed this team's future in the hands of Lucic/RNH/etc.

That's 3/5 of your top players that are OK with mediocrity. You're not going to have a great team with that type of a roster build.

I'd rather have kept the 3 studs that bring it every night, and gradually add to them as time goes on if need be. Hamonic would've been available, Russell was available for nothing, other D would've emerged. It just would've taken a little longer.

As McDavid and Draisaitl mature, WITH Hall our offence would've developed more along the lines of Toronto. McDavid-Hall-Draisaitl-Klefbom got what? 6 games to play together?

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Absolutely not. Not a single even strength goal for the entire bottom 6 is a legitimate concern. Kassian? Pakarainen? Letestu? Jokinen? All completely goalless at even strength. You need depth to win and if you can't see that then I honestly can't help you.

I'm not going to put blame on a line that scored ~20 goals each last season when the entire bottom six has contributed exactly NOTHING to this team.

It's truly amazing how having the second worst offense in the league is okay to some people. What are we? New Jersey? Oh wait they're completely killing us in scoring.

which I'm sure you saw coming seeing how you saw the Oilers would struggle to score

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

If it's one good year followed by one year of regression, I'll take a more steady rebuild.

What came before McDavid is irrelevant. By trading Hall we structurally placed this team's future in the hands of Lucic/RNH/etc.

That's 3/5 of your top players that are OK with mediocrity. You're not going to have a great team with that type of a roster build.

I'd rather have kept the 3 studs that bring it every night, and gradually add to them as time goes on if need be. Hamonic would've been available, Russell was available for nothing, other D would've emerged. It just would've taken a little longer.

As McDavid and Draisaitl mature, WITH Hall our offence would've developed more along the lines of Toronto. McDavid-Hall-Draisaitl-Klefbom got what? 6 games to play together?

no we didn't, our future is based on McDavid, Drai, Klefbom, Larsson and Talbot

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

which I'm sure you saw coming seeing how you saw the Oilers would struggle to score

I didn't see the Oilers struggling this badly but I definitely saw them taking a step back with the meager additions we made in the off-season. Chia's plan should've been to upgrade further instead of downgrade and hope for the best. We got a lot of career years out of people and anyone expecting it to continue was fooling themselves.

 

[Soundwave]

Who gives a **** what the other teams do? That's them, this is us. The Oilers had a lot go right for them last year and Chiarelli should've brought in some insurance just in case players faltered.


I don't know who's available. Do you? I'm guessing not. Did we know Adam Larsson was available when he was traded for Hall? Probably not.

My point is he should've upgraded and he didn't and now the team doesn't even look like a playoff team. Aren't we supposed to be shooting for the Cup? But hey we can trade 2nd line players for bottom 6ers...

That's a cop out answer. If you're going to flood this board with the same message over and over again, then step up to the plate and answer the question.

And we DO know who was available. We know Vanek, 80-year-old Jagr, etc. were available. None of the player's available from where I'm sitting realistically make up for RNH + Lucic playing at half their ability.

In a way it's actually good that our problems are exposed and there isn't some 3rd/4th liner wonder story bailing out RNH and Lucic from facing the music. The sooner you realize there is a problem, the sooner it can be addressed, continuing the way things were going with Pitlick/Letestu/Maroon scoring a bunch of goals and masking a bunch of problems ultimately wasn't going to do the franchise good either.

If this core is not good enough, then it's better to know now than 2 years from now, masked by "rental options".

 

[Spawn]

so Chia is the only GM to expects young players...especially ones to had good playoffs...to improve?

Slepyshev and Caggiula had 3 points each in the playoffs. And we were banking on them both to be top 9 forwards this season...

It's easy to see how that might fail.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

That's a cop out answer. If you're going to flood this board with the same message over and over again, then step up to the plate and answer the question.

And we DO know who was available. We know Vanek, 80-year-old Jagr, etc. were available. None of the player's available from where I'm sitting realistically make up for RNH + Lucic playing at half their ability.

I'm not an NHL GM. Neither are you. It's impossible to state who's available because we truly don't know other than the players who moved.

If you know, then please list every single player that was available for trade. I got all day. Let's see it.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Of course not. But you'd think they've seen it enough to learn. Stop hitching your wagon to young horses. Enough teams have tanked following this method, that perhaps, just perhaps, they might try having another idea in mind.

how do you think NJ is winning right now?
LA is relying on Kempe and Fantenberg...I'm sure people saw that
TB has Brayden Point contributing

every team does it

 

[Soundwave]

no we didn't, our future is based on McDavid, Drai, Klefbom, Larsson and Talbot

It is by default. As good as McDavid/Draisaitl are if you play them together, you must have a second line. Every team that has ever won anything in this league has 2 good lines. So that puts the pressure on the 60% $6 million club.

And predictably, they are failing in that role spectacularly. The Leafs are clearly showing the huge disparity beteween us and them and it is mainly their second tier players that are the difference.

Give us 4 goals from Kadri and 5 more from JVR in lieu of Lucic + RNH and we are looking pretty good I would bet.

 

[Soundwave]

I'm not an NHL GM. Neither are you. It's impossible to state who's available because we truly don't know other than the players who moved.

If you know, then please list every single player that was available for trade. I got all day. Let's see it.

Tons of posters here list trades. We debate them. To keep hammering this point and absolve yourself from having to make any concrete statement is a cop out in my book.

It's fairly obvious who was available, like maaaaaybe Sidney Crosby was available for Mark Letestu?! Obviously if there was some slam dunk pick up that would massively improve the team for a low cost, I give Chia the benefit of the doubt and say he'd probably have done it and I don't even like Chia.

It seems to me REALISTICALLY, the best available forward was Patrick Marleau and he chose Toronto for a contract we couldn't likely afford anyway. We know what the cost of a top 4 D is so lets not even start on that.

Beyond that you had options like the Vaneks, Jagrs, of the world.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Slepyshev and Caggiula had 3 points each in the playoffs. And we were banking on them both to be top 9 forwards this season...

It's easy to see how that might fail.

thats 3 more points than top 6 player Eberle

having said that, obviously not all were going to succeed but Chia probably felt one would/could step up and score 12-15 goals

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

It is by default. As good as McDavid/Draisaitl are if you play them together, you must have a second line. Every team that has ever won anything in this league has 2 good lines. So that puts the pressure on the 60% $6 million club.

And predictably, they are failing in that role spectacularly. The Leafs are clearly showing the huge disparity beteween us and them and it is mainly their second tier players that are the difference.

Give us 4 goals from Kadri and 5 more from JVR in lieu of Lucic + RNH and we are looking pretty good I would bet.

speaking of Kadri, he didn't "break out" until he was 25...maybe more patience on RNH is needed

 

[Spawn]

Tons of posters here list trades. We debate them. To keep hammering this point and absolve yourself from having to make any concrete statement is a cop out in my book.

It's fairly obvious who was available, like maaaaaybe Sidney Crosby was available for Mark Letestu?! Obviously if there was some slam dunk pick up that would massively improve the team for a low cost, I give Chia the benefit of the doubt and say he'd probably have done it and I don't even like Chia.

It seems to me REALISTICALLY, the best available forward was Patrick Marleau and he chose Toronto for a contract we couldn't likely afford anyway. We know what the cost of a top 4 D is so lets not even start on that.

The team down the highway has added two top 4 d-men in a few summers for nothing but picks. Those types of deals are available to plenty of teams... never the Oilers though apparently.

As for forwards. The Preds left James Neal unprotected in the expansion draft. It's not unreasonable at all to think that if the Oilers were really committed to adding him (or Perron from St. Louis for example) that a deal could have been worked out so the Preds don't lose him for nothing.