Peter Chiarelli Appreciation Thread

[Spawn]

speaking of Kadri, he didn't "break out" until he was 25...maybe more patience on RNH is needed

Kadri as a 22 year old had 44 points in 48 games.

 

[Soundwave]

The team down the highway has added two top 4 d-men in a few summers for nothing but picks. Those types of deals are available to plenty of teams... never the Oilers though apparently.

As for forwards. The Preds left James Neal unprotected in the expansion draft. It's not unreasonable at all to think that if the Oilers were really committed to adding him (or Perron from St. Louis for example) that a deal could have been worked out so the Preds don't lose him for nothing.

But that would also mean Nashville loses someone else to Vegas. They let Neal go because they wanted to protect other core players. Ditto for St. Louis. Vegas was going to get some good players.

If top D are available for picks ... then Chia already dun goofed with Taylor Hall and we were always kinda screwed for a couple of years anyway. That type of an overpayment was always going to come back to bite us in the rear end.

 

[Drivesaitl]

re-read the thread title...its an appreciation thread, not a discussion thread

Do we really need a negative/positive polarity thread for each name topic of conversation connected with the board? Wouldn't one thread suffice?

 

[Soundwave]

speaking of Kadri, he didn't "break out" until he was 25...maybe more patience on RNH is needed

I think you need to have a certain level of pride and fight in your belly, and I don't think RNH sadly has either.

Kadri was not spoiled here by being gifted a 6 million dollar contract after 60 good games. He's had to work his way up the Toronto system, taken a lot of heat, and only recently got paid, and even then still earns a good less than RNH.

We should not have given RNH that kind of money so early. Killed his desire to improve. Maybe some switch magically goes off in him at age 25, but right now he's getting worse, not better.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Do we really need a negative/positive polarity thread for each name topic of conversation connected with the board? Wouldn't one thread suffice?

If you look at the first bunch of posts, this was created because Chia was getting shit on everywhere else.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Kings made the major blockbuster move of adding Mike Cammalleri, lol. The real reason they are better is their underperforming players like Kopitar and Brown have come to play this year with pride and are playing great.

Good teams don't need massive additions every year, we are being exposed because players like RNH/Lucic can't carry the mail. It was going to become obvious at some point, it just so happens that it's plainly obvious now.

We don't need "additions". We need "replacements" for what Lucic/RNH/etc. were supposed to be. We expected them to be big time players here, they are not.

That is a core problem. That is not a "lets sign a $3 million dollar UFA like Vanek" problem.

The Kings were an elite team and 2 time SC winner in the first place. They were proven. But they went most of a season without their #1 goalie. few teams withstand that very well. But they added more than Cammalleri. They added a new coach, new hope, and a fresh look that enlivened the players on the club. They also have steadily added prospects that are doing great.

In any case the difference is a team with established success through years vs a team still trying to figure out and could use assistance.

The trouble is Chia runs some scorched earth wherever he goes. Sure he adds some players but the deletions hurt orgs irrevocably.

 

[CycloneSweep]

The Kings were an elite team and 2 time SC winner in the first place. They were proven. But they went most of a season without their #1 goalie. few teams withstand that very well. But they added more than Cammalleri. They added a new coach, new hope, and a fresh look that enlivened the players on the club. They also have steadily added prospects that are doing great.

In any case the difference is a team with established success through years vs a team still trying to figure out and could use assistance.

The trouble is Chia runs some scorched earth wherever he goes. Sure he adds some players but the deletions hurt orgs irrevocably.

But but additional by subtraction /s

 

[Drivesaitl]

If you look at the first bunch of posts, this was created because Chia was getting **** on everywhere else.

I'm not familiar with that. My recollection was this being a board where Chia could do no wrong. If theres other threads out there critiquing Chia or that are more acceptable for discussion then I would discuss there. Unfortunately with this being a new board a lot of old threads were lost forever is my understanding.

I'm perfectly amenable to posting comments in the desired thread or ceasing doing so here.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Kadri as a 22 year old had 44 points in 48 games.

And RNH had 52 points in 62 games as an 18 year old

 

[Drivesaitl]

how do you think NJ is winning right now?
LA is relying on Kempe and Fantenberg...I'm sure people saw that
TB has Brayden Point contributing

every team does it

Actually Kemp has WC speed, hands, is not shy to go to areas and has the makings of a star player. The Kings consistently draft players with good upside. That said they are not "relying" on such players they rely on a WC core that includes such players as Doughty, Kopitar, Carter, Quick all of whom are among the best in world at their respective positions. That's a pretty good nucleus to build a club around.

Additionally players like Muzzin, Brown, have been top players. Its quite arguable that the Kings have 2 better D than anything we have. The Kings have 3 D that have better offensive upside than anything we have.

The Oilers have McD, Drai, Talbot, and a lot of middle of the road players with apologies to Larsson but whom Chia sold part of the farm to get.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

The Kings were an elite team and 2 time SC winner in the first place. They were proven. But they went most of a season without their #1 goalie. few teams withstand that very well. But they added more than Cammalleri. They added a new coach, new hope, and a fresh look that enlivened the players on the club. They also have steadily added prospects that are doing great.

In any case the difference is a team with established success through years vs a team still trying to figure out and could use assistance.

The trouble is Chia runs some scorched earth wherever he goes. Sure he adds some players but the deletions hurt orgs irrevocably.

So you totally predicted a rebound season from the Kings?

 

[Drivesaitl]

So you totally predicted a rebound season from the Kings?

Of course I did. I have huge respect for that Org and lineup though. Its one of a handful of very well run teams in this league. I figured the Kings would have success last season but then the Quick disaster. As stated teams don't withstand that degree of hardship. Similarly if McD or Talbot go down its all over for the Oilers in any given season. There's certain injuries you can survive, others you can't.

Any org needs a handful of WC calibre players to get going as a contender. The Oilers have 3 by my count. Larsson could potentially add to that but not likely on the level of a Doughty or Muzzin.

 

[Soundwave]

Hindsight being what it is we should have just stayed the course. There were lots of rumblings that had us taking Sergachev in his draft year.

Draft Sergachev, keep Hall, pass on Lucic/Larsson. Sign Russell.

Have some patience. McDavid would've been spectacular either way the following year and the fans would've settled down.

McDavid, Draisaitl, Hall, Klefbom, Sergachev, is a better core group that what we ended up with.

 

[Drivesaitl]

^Its not all hindsight either. But as you stated when the team pulls a major trade giving up a Seguin or a Hall they better be right. Chia achieved a short term gain in Boston but which has since elapsed. He was fired from the Bruins. Hall is clearly the franchise player in NJ and the best player they have. He would have continued to be good here as well.

As I see it the org figured that Eberle, Nuge production would survive the absence of Hall. That appears to be wrong.

To make this worthwhile in trade Chia would have to have figured that a Larsson plus Klefbom would make a considerable top pairing. Not just a good top pairing, but one that befits a contending club with McD and Drai and Talbot. The thinking must have been that the addition of Larsson would be perfect for Klefboms transition to a stud D. Its over a year later and the jury is out on that. Not saying it won't occur, but we gave up a guaranteed top player in Hall for a hope of a Top D pair.

We have a pretty ordinary looking D. Even with Sekera our D is sub Calgary.

One wonders though is how different things might be if McD didn't have the longterm injury in year 1 and whether the Oilers would have turned a corner a bit that season. If that team had contended for a a playoff spot what would have transpired.

 

[Soundwave]

It's not about having a loaded roster. It's about getting the most out of your roster and your players buying in.

That's the name of the game in the NHL. Teams like Vegas, LA have plenty of holes. Columbus was a joke just one year ago were they not? LOL, Jack Johnson getting walked by McDavid, of course it's the Sad Jackets. Wasn't everyone laughing at them? No one is now.

It's not about having a flawless roster. It's about pride and desire of your group playing to their maximum ability.

We don't have the buy in here. Only a small handful of players want to play to their potential or beyond it here.

Every team gets 4-6 "good players". Your team goes largely on how those 4-6 play to their ability. The rest need to play too but just in a supportive role.

 

[Spawn]

It's not about having a loaded roster. It's about getting the most out of your roster and your players buying in.

That's the name of the game in the NHL. Teams like Vegas, LA have plenty of holes. Columbus was a joke just one year ago were they not? LOL, Jack Johnson getting walked by McDavid, of course it's the Sad Jackets. Tons of holes.

It's not about having a flawless roster. It's about pride and desire of your group playing to their maximum ability.

We don't have the buy in here. Only a small handful of players want to play to their potential or beyond it here.

Every team gets 4-6 "good players". Your team goes largely on how those 4-6 play to their ability. The rest need to play too but just in a supportive role.

Eh. I don't buy it. These guys just aren't that good. Nuge has never been that good. With first line minutes and first line linemates he was a ~55 point player. Without that he's a ~40 point guy. Lucic is getting older and slower and his best play came when playing with a legit first line center in Krejci. If you put Lucic with McDavid he'll likely put up ~55 points. Neither of them have ever been good line drivers.

 

[Soundwave]

Eh. I don't buy it. These guys just aren't that good. Nuge has never been that good. With first line minutes and first line linemates he was a ~55 point player. Without that he's a ~40 point guy. Lucic is getting older and slower and his best play came when playing with a legit first line center in Krejci. If you put Lucic with McDavid he'll likely put up ~55 points. Neither of them have ever been good line drivers.

Could be. But LA sucked last year. Columbus was a joke a year ago.

The name of the game in the NHL is getting your tier 2 players to perform at their maximum ability or beyond it.

Two players and a goalie doesn't a team make. Too many key passengers here, too many guys comfortable here. No desire to be better.

In a cap world you only get really 5-6 high end pieces to spend, when 1/2 the pieces you've spent on don't give much of a damn about being their best ... you're going to have problems. Not even the best player in the world can mask it.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Of course I did. I have huge respect for that Org and lineup though. Its one of a handful of very well run teams in this league. I figured the Kings would have success last season but then the Quick disaster. As stated teams don't withstand that degree of hardship. Similarly if McD or Talbot go down its all over for the Oilers in any given season. There's certain injuries you can survive, others you can't.

Any org needs a handful of WC calibre players to get going as a contender. The Oilers have 3 by my count. Larsson could potentially add to that but not likely on the level of a Doughty or Muzzin.

Of course you did

 

[Soundwave]

Three of these guys have no business being in this picture or wearing a letter.

These guys are supposed to help McDavid ... instead they are/were always no where to be found when times get tough. Franchise invested so much money and time in these three amigos of suck.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Just remember...

"Addition by subtraction".

 

[Paralyzer]

So I'm not allowed to criticize the management of the team I cheer for?

Not in a thread that's labelled 'Appreciation Thread'...Thought it was that obvious. Guess not.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Hindsight being what it is we should have just stayed the course. There were lots of rumblings that had us taking Sergachev in his draft year.

Draft Sergachev, keep Hall, pass on Lucic/Larsson. Sign Russell.

Have some patience. McDavid would've been spectacular either way the following year and the fans would've settled down.

McDavid, Draisaitl, Hall, Klefbom, Sergachev, is a better core group that what we ended up with.

Sergachev wouldn't help till next year. You have to account for the position he is in in TB. Sheltered minutes under Hedman and Srtalman. That would not happen here, not by a country mile. He would actually be in the risk of being ruined here

Larsson was necessary. A big franchise dman who can break up the cycle, From there out you can build a defense

 

[Soundwave]

Sergachev wouldn't help till next year. You have to account for the position he is in in TB. Sheltered minutes under Hedman and Srtalman. That would not happen here, not by a country mile. He would actually be in the risk of being ruined here

Larsson was necessary. A big franchise dman who can break up the cycle, From there out you can build a defense

I think Hall is more necessary.

Our D would've been massively improved just from healthy Klefbom + Russell alone.

Larsson gave us a short cut to respectability, but I think keeping Hall in the long haul creates a team better situated for a Stanley Cup sooner because basically the offensive structure of the team, like Toronto, is rock solid. You can just add the D over time.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Three of these guys have no business being in this picture or wearing a letter.

These guys are supposed to help McDavid ... instead they are/were always no where to be found when times get tough. Franchise invested so much money and time in these three amigos of suck.

and traded the only 6M buck player that had value. Because the two that were retained (now 1) have contracts that greatly limit their trade value.

But yeah, Drai no letter, Letestu no letter, Maroon no letter Larsson no letter, basically anybody that showed up in the playoffs had no A letter. .

Leadership being what it is.

But all the guys with the A's can talk a good horcoff talk.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

and traded the only 6M buck player that had value. Because the two that were retained (now 1) have contracts that greatly limit their trade value.

But yeah, Drai no letter, Letestu no letter, Maroon no letter Larsson no letter, basically anybody that showed up in the playoffs had no A letter. .

Leadership being what it is.

But all the guys with the A's can talk a good horcoff talk.

Dustin Brown has 2 Stanley Cups and he's the captain of the Kings. Tell me letters matter.

You have no idea what goes on in the dressing room.