Perron suspended 6 games for crosscheck to the face on Zub - Mod warning Post #590

[Guttersniped]

I think Perron is more than deserving of suspension. What I don't understand is their math here.

Gunbranson gets a game for jumping Cousins. Perron gets 6 for jumping Zub. Sure you can say Perron used a cross-check and that's worse. But cross-checks almost never get 5 game suspensions. In the run of play this would probably get 2-3 (far less than should be routine, but that's another story).

So basically they suspended him:

1 - Jumping a player outside of play
2-3 - Using a cross-check
2-3 - Jumping the wrong player

The ramifications of bolded are absolutely bonkers. This is about as close as you'll get to a masks off moment where the NHL flat out tells players they should be blindside mugging opponents they feel are being unsporting.

You missed that it was a dangerously high cross-check to head and his past history.

He was only fined for his retaliatory cross-check on Kadri in the 2022 Playoffs but it matters more because it was the exact same offense.

The NHL doesn’t even mention the “wrong player” part and the head shot aspect you ignore is a central point in the NHL DOPS video.

People typically complain that a lack of suspensions encourages more bad behavior, I have to say I didn’t expect someone to argue that this 6 game suspension will encourage more retaliatory hits.

I didn’t expect it because it doesn’t make a lot of sense. Perron wouldn’t have gotten 6 games if he threw off his gloves and started fighting Zub. They specifically really don’t want retaliatory head shots with a stick.

Perron suspended six games | NHL.com

Perron suspended six games for cross-check

www.nhl.com

 

[Harry Waters]

Good, he deserves all of it.

Also: Some takes in this thread really make me wonder if I am on a website where hockey people talk hockey. Arguing that other stuff also happens that are punished less (what a surprise, congrats I guess) while citing incidents which are not comparable at all (where is your understanding of the game?) or arguing that Perron's reaction was kind of ok/understandable (when he crosschecked an uninvolved player who was trying to help Larkin). Are we sure we love the game and the players here? Not directing this at the reasonable folks in here, but what the heck is some of this!?

 

[Guttersniped]

I do feel the suspension was 100% warranted. I would be curious to hear from the DoPeS as to why Matthews gets a 2 game suspension but Perron gets 6 for a very similar action.

Matthews suspended two games | NHL.com

Matthews suspended two games for cross-checking

www.nhl.com

They cover that in the video. It’s not as bad because the two players are exchanging shoves at the time. In the Perron video they mention that this is not a case where “players are jousting and mutually aware sticks are being raised”.

Perron suspended six games | NHL.com

Perron suspended six games for cross-check

www.nhl.com

 

[KevinFinnerty]

Zub had a broken jaw already this season.

now he'll be cross-eyed.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

You missed that it was a dangerously high cross-check to head and his past history.

He was only fined for his retaliatory cross-check on Kadri in the 2022 Playoffs but it matters more because it was the exact same offense.

The NHL doesn’t even mention the “wrong player” part and the head shot aspect you ignore is a central point in the NHL DOPS video.

People typically complain that a lack of suspensions encourages more bad behavior, I have to say I didn’t expect someone to argue that this 6 game suspension will encourage more retaliatory hits.

I didn’t expect it because it doesn’t make a lot of sense. Perron wouldn’t have gotten 6 games if he threw off his gloves and started fighting Zub. They specifically really don’t want retaliatory head shots with a stick.

Perron suspended six games | NHL.com

Perron suspended six games for cross-check

www.nhl.com

As you point out for the exact same offense he previously received only a fine. So the difference between a fine and 6 games was his repeat status? The league in the past has not used that level of acceleration for suspension. With Wilson it was several events accumulating, and reduced on appeal afterwards.

I put little stock in what the NHL says or mentions, and quite a bit more in what they actually do. I.e. virtually the entire NHL rulebook vs what you see on the ice, vs what you see on the ice in the playoffs.

This wasn't retaliation Zub was essentially a cross between bystander and good samaritan. And I think the jump from fine to 6 games was in part because he didn't retaliate against a 'valid target' (to the NHL culture).

Which implies that the NHL largely feels its ok to retaliate against someone who has initiated an altercation. See, Gundbranson. That was planned and premeditated and got 1 game. This is the problem with expecting the players to 'police themselves'.

Perron should have gotten 6 games if he threw off his gloves and just started whaling on whomever he could find.

 

[KCC]

Finally a lengthy suspension. wish the league would do this more often. Make a statement, hold players accountable and continue to be strict about it.

 

[WingsToPick4th]

Matthews cross checks Dahlin directly in the face multiple times - 2 games
Malkin cross checks borowicki in the face lost teeth and bleeding from his face - 4 game
Jamie benn cross checks larkin to the neck and ends his season - 0 games 0 penalties
Jamie benn cross checks Stone diretly in the neck in playoffs - 2 games
Trouba murders somebody - 5k fine
Gudbrandson literally goes ape shit and murders a guy the SAME WEEK - 1 game

NOW we evaluate:
Perron cross checks Zub (and he plays the very next shift) and perron has 0 NHL history in 1100 games - 6 games???
Joseph puts a team captain on IR - 2minute penalty ???
Walman high sticks someone on a follow thru by accident - 2.5k fine??

I'm not saying Perron was right because he wasnt, but you can see a clear bias against the wings in this all of these.
Parros is clown, retribution will come.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Finally a lengthy suspension. wish the league would do this more often. Make a statement, hold players accountable and continue to be strict about it.

Agreed.

This suspension is significantly out of line with how the league has punished incidents in the past, especially considering Zub was ok, however it's the correct suspension.

Now let's use this standard going forward DoPS. Pretty please?

(I say that being 100% certain they won't)

 

[NyQuil]

Matthews cross checks Dahlin directly in the face multiple times - 2 games - DURING PLAY
Malkin cross checks borowicki in the face lost teeth and bleeding from his face - 4 game - DURING PLAY
Jamie benn cross checks larkin to the neck and ends his season - 0 games 0 penalties - DURING PLAY
Jamie benn cross checks Stone diretly in the neck in playoffs - 2 games - DURING PLAY
Trouba murders somebody - 5k fine - RIGHT AS THE WHISTLE BLOWS
Gudbrandson literally goes ape shit and murders a guy the SAME WEEK - 1 game - DURING PLAY

NOW we evaluate:
Perron cross checks Zub directly in the face (and he plays the very next shift) and perron has 0 NHL history in 1100 games - 6 games??? - WELL AFTER THE WHISTLE AND THE WRONG GUY
Joseph puts a team captain on IR - 2minute penalty ??? - DURING PLAY
Walman high sticks someone on a follow thru by accident - 2.5k fine?? - DURING PLAY

One of these things is not like the others.

 

[Neil Racki]

6 seems excessive given history, precedent and no injury

 

[umma gumma]

Matthews cross checks Dahlin directly in the face multiple times - 2 games
Malkin cross checks borowicki in the face lost teeth and bleeding from his face - 4 game
Jamie benn cross checks larkin to the neck and ends his season - 0 games 0 penalties
Jamie benn cross checks Stone diretly in the neck in playoffs - 2 games
Trouba murders somebody - 5k fine
Gudbrandson literally goes ape shit and murders a guy the SAME WEEK - 1 game

NOW we evaluate:
Perron cross checks Zub (and he plays the very next shift) and perron has 0 NHL history in 1100 games - 6 games???
Joseph puts a team captain on IR - 2minute penalty ???
Walman high sticks someone on a follow thru by accident - 2.5k fine??

I'm not saying Perron was right because he wasnt, but you can see a clear bias against the wings in this all of these.
Parros is clown, retribution will come.

Once again, it was contact with Kelly that caused Larkin's injury.

 

[BurgoShark]

Guess Im in the minority but Im ok with what Perron did.

Yes he needs to be suspended, but I want my team's players to react like that to seeing a star spread eagle on the ice knocked out.

I’d prefer they help the guy who is down. Get his mouthguard out (if practical), call the trainer, make the of finals aware etc.

If you want to go whack someone, do it after you know your guy is breathing.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Sure. That wasn’t said in posts that you quoted.

Yes it was.

 

[WaW]

Late but as even a Wings fan I have no problem with 6 games for Perron because cross-checks to the face/neck are ugly and need to be taken out of the game

I do have an issue with nothing for Joseph. I'm sorry but when you reach upward to try and move or bring a guy down by the neck, I don't understand how the league is okay with that. Great way to try and end a guy's career...whether or not there is blunt force.

The neck needs to be completely off limits, not just the head.

 

[behemolari]

how many games did Joseph get?

 

[DavidpauseReinbacher]

Good he deserves those six games, he crossed-checked Zub's head it was vicious and premeditated.

Premeditated? Did the definition for premeditated change in the last 24 hours? He planned it eh... Planned it with diagrams and everything sitting in his basement like you probably are.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Premeditated? Did the definition for premeditated change in the last 24 hours? He planned it eh... Planned it with diagrams and everything sitting in his basement like you probably are.

he saw another player standing over his injured teammate and thought he was the one who injured him and went in and cross checked the players head for revenge.

it wasn't some in-play hit where he was trying to box out or make a defensive play. even on the penalty the refs called it intent to injure.

that is the definition of premeditated. especially in a hockey context. he went in wanting to cross check Zubs head because of what happened, and he did, after the whistle. premeditated.

 

[Koivu11]

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Premeditated? Did the definition for premeditated change in the last 24 hours? He planned it eh... Planned it with diagrams and everything sitting in his basement like you probably are.

Book or legal? I wouldn't say this wasn't pre-meditated in a legal way. He showed intent to cross-check Zub, he was fully aware of what he was doing, and most importantly he did it as a result of him taking stock of the overall situation 1. Larkin was hurt 2. He felt it was his duty to respond.

Legal Pre-meditation doesn't require meticulous consideration and planning. It's also not particularly operative as Zub didn't die, and pre-meditation a consideration for certain murder charges.

I am not your lawyer, the above is for sports entertainment purposes only.

 

[DearDiary]

Guess Im in the minority but Im ok with what Perron did.

Yes he needs to be suspended, but I want my team's players to react like that to seeing a star spread eagle on the ice knocked out.

You want your teams players to assault people who had nothing to do with an incident?

 

[Guttersniped]

As you point out for the exact same offense he previously received only a fine. So the difference between a fine and 6 games was his repeat status? The league in the past has not used that level of acceleration for suspension. With Wilson it was several events accumulating, and reduced on appeal afterwards.

I put little stock in what the NHL says or mentions, and quite a bit more in what they actually do. I.e. virtually the entire NHL rulebook vs what you see on the ice, vs what you see on the ice in the playoffs.

This wasn't retaliation Zub was essentially a cross between bystander and good samaritan. And I think the jump from fine to 6 games was in part because he didn't retaliate against a 'valid target' (to the NHL culture).

Which implies that the NHL largely feels its ok to retaliate against someone who has initiated an altercation. See, Gundbranson. That was planned and premeditated and got 1 game. This is the problem with expecting the players to 'police themselves'.

Perron should have gotten 6 games if he threw off his gloves and just started whaling on whomever he could find.

In the 2022 Playoffs, both players were physically battling each other before the cross-check. Also Perron didn’t headshot Kadri, he checked him in the shoulder. Those are the most obvious differences.

So yes, I believe past history plays a factor because the NHL mentioned it but what he did to Zub was worse than what he did to Kadri.

Maybe Perron should have gotten suspended in the playoffs as well, but for better or worse, the NHL is less severe with penalties in the playoffs.

I’m not the NHL DOPS, I’m just offering the most obvious corrections to factually incorrect descriptions of this penalty.

There’s no way this specific punishment encourages retaliation.

You can complain that refs don’t discourage boarderline dangerous hits enough because (arguably) too many either go unpunished or only get 2 minutes. Unpunished borderline dangerous hits (arguably) encourage retaliation in some cases. But that doesn’t make punishing an extreme retaliatory attack with 6 games wrong.

The NHL likes big hits, so they’re more lenient with those, since they’re “hockey plays” gone wrong.

The NHL also is more lenient on cross-checks, slashing, etc that happen when players are in a scrum or “jousting” each other.

 

[norrisnick]

They have an argument on precedent. If this is the new precedent and that is communicated and that's what is used moving forward? Fine. If other sticks to heads get 1 or 2 or a fine as they have in the past, then yeah, 6 games is horseshit.

 

[Guttersniped]

You realize Kelly is the one who accidentally knocked out larkin right?

It's been shown ad nauseum.

Joseph's shove didn't knock out larkin. It couldn't have.

The fist/butt end of Kelly's stick connecting with Larkins jaw is what knocked him out.

And both Joseph and Kelly got 2 minutes. The NHL is more lenient when it’s a “hockey play” gone wrong and that’s how they see it when players are battling to clear their crease.

how many games did Joseph get?

As many as he deserved.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

They have an argument on precedent. If this is the new precedent and that is communicated and that's what is used moving forward? Fine. If other sticks to heads get 1 or 2 or a fine as they have in the past, then yeah, 6 games is horseshit.

NHLPA are scum. They only give a shit about dues or they would have insisted on longer suspensions years ago.

 

[Score08]

Absolutely amazing that Trouba gets a 5k fine while this gets 6 games. All this proves is DOPS is an ineffective, laughable joke of a department. Just disband DOPS at this point, they can’t even justify their own existence.