Per Friedman: Coyotes players told team moving to Utah starting next season (Mod warning post #50)

[Chet Manley]

One problem. There's no actual history there to keep. Unless we're talking about bankruptcy, shitty owners, little fan interest, and screwing over municipalities.

You're like a doctor in the ICU telling the friends and family that he's a bit of a bum no biggie. Not wrong but damn.

 

[JKG33]

I would think more people play Youth and High School football would be higher than the combined amount of people who play youth hockey. The United States is massive population-wise, and outside Russia and Canada, most of the other Hockey nations are quite small (Sweden, Czech Republic, Slovakia, and Finland). Even then, Canada is about the size of California population wise. It's growing in some bigger markets like Germany, but the player base still isn't large. Due to how Football is funded, it is a way more accessible sport to play. Whereas people who go far in hockey are generally skating by like 4 or 5, and playing on expensive travel teams by like 8. It requires a unique skill set, whereas Basketball and Football require more freakish athletic ability that you can get a late start on if you have those attributes.

A lot of people play youth/collegiate football sure. But look at the actual NFL talent pool. There's maybe 20 legit starting QBs and the rest are all rotating in and out of starter/backup roles. There's always an O-line shortage, and in large part because of the size requirement. There just aren't that many athletic people of that size.

Basketball is also super easy to pickup and play anywhere, but again you've got a size requirement to actually play in the pros.

Hockey will obviously never be as open as soccer or baseball, but in terms of the god given physical requirements the barrier to the pros is much lower than football and basketball.

Except that Montreal and Vancouver would be multiple sports towns if they were located in the US based on the size of their market and metro pop (I know Montreal had the Expos but still). If we're going by size, Montreal would be a 4 team town for example if you compare it to American cities of its size.

I mean yea they would be if they met those requirements. But that's my point, they aren't and they don't.

There's a reason I didn't include them in the WPG/EDM/CGY/OTT group tho

 

[Guttersniped]

How is what confirmed? I'm speaking to a hypothetical the article outlines. You move the team to Salt Lake City, now, Then see how the land auction unfolds, and if it falls into place, you start working towards an expansion deal for Arizona.

Sorry, I misread your first sentence. I’m going to delete that part of the post so it doesn’t confuse anyone.

 

[93LEAFS]

A lot of people play youth/collegiate football sure. But look at the actual NFL talent pool. There's maybe 20 legit starting QBs and the rest are all rotating in and out of starter/backup roles. There's always an O-line shortage, and in large part because of the size requirement. There just aren't that many athletic people of that size.

Basketball is also super easy to pickup and play anywhere, but again you've got a size requirement to actually play in the pros.

Hockey will obviously never be as open as soccer or baseball, but in terms of the god given physical requirements the barrier to the pros is much lower than football and basketball.


I mean yea they would be if they met those requirements. But that's my point, they aren't and they don't.

There's a reason I didn't include them in the WPG/EDM/CGY/OTT group tho

Hockey with rare exceptions you need to be playing at a high level by like 8, that dramatically reduces the amount of people capable of being impact NHLers. Since it requires being fluid on ice, and picking up skating later in adolescence is way more difficult. Whereas the other sports just require freakish athleticism but can be picked up later in life. Look at Zach Edey for example who didn't start playing Basketball competitively until 15.

Like, look at the NHLers from the GTHL, most are playing triple A travel hockey as soon as triple A registration starts. There are exceptions but they are rare. People like Marner and McDavid were playing on travel teams that cost 10k a year before equipment (which you need yearly at that age) by the time they were like 8. So, while the physical requirements aren't as strenuous, the age people start at and the costs required put a massive barrier to entry that dramatically reduces the talent pool. No one is making the NHL playing house league or select, which still aren't cheap. Even the kids who played primarily AA which is expensive who end up in the NHL are rare (Wayne Simmonds and Tom Wilson). Sports like Polo and car Racing have limited physical requirements, but will both cost a fortune to get good at.

Except that Montreal and Vancouver would be multiple sports towns if they were located in the US based on the size of their market and metro pop (I know Montreal had the Expos but still). If we're going by size, Montreal would be a 4 team town for example if you compare it to American cities of its size.

I'm not here for this Grizzlies disrespect.

Montreal is big enough to be a 4 sports town if they were in the states. Vancouver would probably be a 2 of 4 market. Toronto would have all 4.

 

[hangman005]

All I know is whoever is a Yotes fan must be pretty hard core to put up with all of this, year after grinding year.

I've always said you want to see a hockey fan, look at the Yotes.

 

[jetsforever]

Seems like this Utah thing has moved very quickly

 

[JKG33]

Hockey with rare exceptions you need to be playing at a high level by like 8, that dramatically reduces the amount of people capable of being impact NHLers. Since it requires being fluid on ice, and picking up skating later in adolescence is way more difficult. Whereas the other sports just require freakish athleticism but can be picked up later in life. Look at Zach Edey for example who didn't start playing Basketball competitively until 15.

Like, look at the NHLers from the GTHL, most are playing triple A travel hockey as soon as triple A registration starts. There are exceptions but they are rare. People like Marner and McDavid were playing on travel teams that cost 10k a year before equipment (which you need yearly at that age) by the time they were like 8. So, while the physical requirements aren't as strenuous, the age people start at and the costs required put a massive barrier to entry that dramatically reduces the talent pool. No one is making the NHL playing house league or select, which still aren't cheap. Even the kids who played primarily AA which is expensive who end up in the NHL are rare (Wayne Simmonds and Tom Wilson). Sports like Polo and car Racing have limited physical requirements, but will both cost a fortune to get good at.


I'm not here for this Grizzlies disrespect.

Montreal is big enough to be a 4 sports town if they were in the states. Vancouver would probably be a 2 of 4 market. Toronto would have all 4.

Oh 100% hockey has a much higher barrier to entry because of cost. But you've also gotta look at the relatively untapped market in the US. If some of these athleticly gifted freaks that dominate the NFL and NBA start playing hockey instead, they'd have a huge talent pool. That's why Bettman is trying to grow the game in the south.

That 5'10 Tommy Try-Hard you see playing ball in any local gym topped out at high school because of his size. But with his natural athletic talent and work ethic, he could've gone a lot further in hockey if he started playing as a kid

 

[Summer Rose]

I've always said you want to see a hockey fan, look at the Yotes.

I am one of the few and proud reporting in.

 

[93LEAFS]

Oh 100% hockey has a much higher barrier to entry because of cost. But you've also gotta look at the relatively untapped market in the US. If some of these athleticly gifted freaks that dominate the NFL and NBA start playing hockey instead, they'd have a huge talent pool. That's why Bettman is trying to grow the game in the south.

That 5'10 Tommy Try-Hard you see playing ball in any local gym topped out at high school because of his size. But with his natural athletic talent and work ethic, he could've gone a lot further in hockey if he started playing as a kid

The thing is, it's so expensive to start as a kid, and play at a high level that it dramatically reduces the field of high-level talent. Like, the barrier to entry are just so much. Yes, occasionally a very talented kid starts in houseleague and is talented enough that a AAA team carries them through sponsors (I've heard this about some current NHLers), but even then, they need to be able to afford putting them in house league at like 6 or 7.

Hockey in the United States while untapped is still very expensive. I have a friend who had his kid in Hockey in Montreal, and then moved to Los Angeles. I would consider them upper-middle class. Travel hockey in Southern Califronia is not cheap, and they didn't pursue it because of the combination of cost and time commitment. GTHL hockey is insanely expensive, and the amount of time you spend driving around in the hellscape known as 400 series highways is beyond frustrating, but outside rare tournaments you still aren't leaving the city often. Top AAA programs outside places like Minnesota, Detroit and New England, the teams are constantly travelling long distances to play tournaments or even their competition.

Hell, since this is a thread about Arizona, look at Matthews. He even stopped playing travel one year just to focus on skill development because of the costs associated. The distance his AAA team travelled to play high-level teams in a season was insane. And, we are talking about one of the most talented American players of all-time, and probably the most talented from a non-traditional market.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

Seems like this Utah thing has moved very quickly

This article gives some insights as to why, with local investors trying to use SLC's bid for the 2034 Winter Olympics as a reason for taxpayers to support new pro hockey and baseball stadiums ..... and the IOC appearing to be somewhat offended that they are being misused for this purpose. IOC says new baseball, hockey facilities not needed to host 2034 Olympics

 

[red devil]

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Auston, you could have prevented this.

 

[red devil]

 

[Transplanted Caper]

Auston, you could have prevented this.

I love when an avatar and post connect perfectly. This one could have come with audio.

 

[bandwagonesque]

I've always said you want to see a hockey fan, look at the Yotes.

True -- most teams have several, sometimes even thousands, who can be observed gathering at arenas built for that purpose.

 

[FMichael]

Can’t happen soon enough…

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Would Meruelo pay the expansion fee?

I would assume this is part of the "deal". Likely a decreased fee.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Can’t happen soon enough…

Why? What affect does it have on you rooting for the Wings?

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Said awhile ago that they need to let the Coyotes go until a new arena is in place and then come back via expansion.

New arena isn't gonna fix anything. That city is conditioned to not give a shit about the Coyotes. Get rid of them for awhile so everybody can get rid of that conditioning and you've got a new generation of younger people that will go to games. Then bring the back with a new arena and some hype behind them.

I will say, in a relocation sale the NHL should retain the rights for the Coyotes' name and logo in the event that they come back via expansion. Last thing we need is a Salt Lake City team wearing Kachina retros like Carolina does with the Whalers' unis.

 

[FMichael]

Why? What affect does it have on you rooting for the Wings?

This soap opera has run it’s course…Time for something new.

Said awhile ago that they need to let the Coyotes go until a new arena is in place and then come back via expansion.

New arena isn't gonna fix anything. That city is conditioned to not give a shit about the Coyotes. Get rid of them for awhile so everybody can get rid of that conditioning and you've got a new generation of younger people that will go to games. Then bring the back with a new arena and some hype behind them.

I will say, in a relocation sale the NHL should retain the rights for the Coyotes' name and logo in the event that they come back via expansion. Last thing we need is a Salt Lake City team wearing Kachina retros like Carolina does with the Whalers' unis.

I don’t think that’ll be a problem…

 

[viper0220]

I would assume this is part of the "deal". Likely a decreased fee.

Would this not look bad for the NHL? It has to be $650 million, Right?

 

[Ezekial]

I'm in full support of a SLC team, it has a lot of potential as a serious hockey market.

 

[LPHabsFan]

Why? What affect does it have on you rooting for the Wings?

Remind me again how anything NHL related affects your? I mean based on your username. Wouldn't that mean, based on this reply, that commenting on anything NHL related would therefore be not allowed?

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

Is it surprising that SLC is okay with taking on a relocation rather than an expansion franchise?

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Remind me again how anything NHL related affects your? I mean based on your username. Wouldn't that mean, based on this reply, that commenting on anything NHL related would therefore be not allowed?

Well, based on my username, I've lost two of my favorite teams from the past and I certainly wouldn't want that for anyone. Including Coyotes fans. Over the last several years, I've become a big Preds fan and the fact that another team is temporarily playing in a small arena has nothing to do with any of that.

I just don't understand why anyone would be rooting for any other fans to lose their team.