Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: Dull days of August... Oooo! A trade!

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

Fwiw, if anything:
10:05 AM - SEPTEMBER 3, 2024 DOWNTOWN
I’d mentioned late last week that an announcement was coming really soon. My guess is they waited a couple extra days for the same reason the entire hockey world was silenced through the weekend.

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Feel like it’s safe to announce it now since the Oilers announced Drai’s extension yesterday.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Kind of in a (relative) can’t lose spot as a fan this year IMO. If they play well, great. If they suck, great. Purgatory and drafting 10-20 is worst case- but we aren’t rebuilding so doesn't feel like it’s uber-critical to bottom out in the short term. And we’re old so not like we are wasting superstar years if we end up in the middle.

Gonna relax and enjoy the core, and hope the young guys show some flashes and progression. The silver lining to no expectations.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Kind of in a (relative) can’t lose spot as a fan this year IMO. If they play well, great. If they suck, great. Purgatory and drafting 10-20 is worst case- but we aren’t rebuilding so doesn't feel like it’s uber-critical to bottom out in the short term. And we’re old so not like we are wasting superstar years if we end up in the middle.

Gonna relax and enjoy the core, and hope the young guys show some flashes and progression. The silver lining to no expectations.

Yeah I think the worst case scenario is that they're in purgatory but still try to buy at the deadline to try to win. But if it's like last year where they're in purgatory and sell at the deadline, I don't have any issues with that.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Kind of in a (relative) can’t lose spot as a fan this year IMO. If they play well, great. If they suck, great. Purgatory and drafting 10-20 is worst case- but we aren’t rebuilding so doesn't feel like it’s uber-critical to bottom out in the short term. And we’re old so not like we are wasting superstar years if we end up in the middle.

Gonna relax and enjoy the core, and hope the young guys show some flashes and progression. The silver lining to no expectations.

I largely agree with the SPIRIT of this. But this team's actual brand of hockey is so eye-murderingly awful to watch that it really saps a lot of my want to tune in.

EDIT: But yeah as far as the overall arc of the team and where they are... I find it extremely regrettable that instead of more proactive decisions the last few years there was just a lot of hemming and hawing, deflection, excuses, flat out delusion and kicking the can down the road but at this point it sort just is what it is... much as I hate that term. You hope that the core doesn't go out in total embarrassment and shame and like you said that some younger players (if given a chance) can step up and provide some reasons to care.

 

[pistolpete11]

Nothing quite grinds my gears as much as the "if it was going to happen, it would have happened by now!" arguments. Why? People said the same thing about Malkin and Letang for the entire season and then they both signed. Rust, too.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Nothing quite grinds my gears as much as the "if it was going to happen, it would have happened by now!" arguments. Why? People said the same thing about Malkin and Letang for the entire season and then they both signed. Rust, too.

Agreed but Crosby is a bit different.

It's not like it matters much since this team is basically stuck firmly in the mud... at best. But the distraction of a un-signed Crosby all season would be kind of a bit much, I'd have to imagine.

Meh. Dude is probably just having a nice long think over how long he wants to stay in this circus. I'd still be shocked if it didn't get done before the season begins.

 

[The Old Master]

. I think most are open to being moved that have those clauses.

At the TDL this team should not be buyers for a run, they should be buyers for draft capital and swapping cap hits to keep piling those up. They can quickly go from the 26th ranked prospect pool middle of the pack with more picks and more of these trades like Rutger for Yager, etc.

that would be a great thing. like pulling the bandage off with a quick yank, get it over with.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I largely agree with the SPIRIT of this. But this team's actual brand of hockey is so eye-murderingly awful to watch that it really saps a lot of my want to tune in.

EDIT: But yeah as far as the overall arc of the team and where they are... I find it extremely regrettable that instead of more proactive decisions the last few years there was just a lot of hemming and hawing, deflection, excuses, flat out delusion and kicking the can down the road but at this point it sort just is what it is... much as I hate that term. You hope that the core doesn't go out in total embarrassment and shame and like you said that some younger players (if given a chance) can step up and provide some reasons to care.

Yeah looking back to June 2017, fresh off B2Bs, with the insanely clean cap structure they had… and winning just one round since then- it’s been extremely disappointing and a massive failure. I mean Carl Hagelin was probably their “worst” contract. I really wish they had tried to add another Kessel, EK in 2018 or 2019.

But like you say, spilled milk. No sense crying over it now.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah looking back to June 2017, fresh off B2Bs, with the insanely clean cap structure they had… and winning just one round since then- it’s been extremely disappointing and a massive failure. I mean Carl Hagelin was probably their “worst” contract. I really wish they had tried to add another Kessel, EK in 2018 or 2019.

But like you say, spilled milk. No sense crying over it now.

If they would've just acquired McDonagh this team wins three straight.

Could've just re-signed Bonino too.

Guentzel - Crosby - Hornqvist
Hagelin - Malkin - Kessel
Sheary - Bonino - Rust
ZAR - Sheahan - Rowney

Dump - Letang
McDonagh - Schultz
Maatta - Ruh

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah looking back to June 2017, fresh off B2Bs, with the insanely clean cap structure they had… and winning just one round since then- it’s been extremely disappointing and a massive failure. I mean Carl Hagelin was probably their “worst” contract. I really wish they had tried to add another Kessel, EK in 2018 or 2019.

But like you say, spilled milk. No sense crying over it now.

I think it's perfectly acceptable for people to be a bit bitter and jaded over how the last like seven seasons have been handled. It really wasn't necessary... it's all out of ego which is just... silly. Mismanagement and horrific coaching abounds with little course adjustment aside from excuses and doubling down on shit that hasn't worked in forever. But yes... there also needs to be a more logical side to that emotional response that says "this is all true but nothing can be done, now."

Like... even if they DID fire the coach this team's roster is trash, there's dead cap all over and a few gross, near-unmovable contracts. It was always going to take some truly bold and genius-level GMing going back to Hextall to create a quick turnaround. And clearly he (and in my opinion so far Dubas as well) were not up to the job.

EDIT: Would still fire Sullivan, though. He is going to be a poor developmental coach IMO.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Fwiw, if anything:
10:05 AM - SEPTEMBER 3, 2024 DOWNTOWN
I’d mentioned late last week that an announcement was coming really soon. My guess is they waited a couple extra days for the same reason the entire hockey world was silenced through the weekend.

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That they waited on the "Gravy Boat" Announcement?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You know better than to think that's how the Pens almost lost the team. It was far more than that and to minimize it to just because fans didn't show up isn't correct.

If fans kept the arena filled, there never would have been a danger of losing the team. How is that disputable?

Do you not think that Crosby moving on would affect the gate considerably? Should management accelerate that process by trading every competent player? Does Crosby's example and continued loyalty to the Penguins and all its benefits carry zero value to you?

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

If fans kept the arena filled, there never would have been a danger of losing the team. How is that disputable?

It didn’t matter if the fans filled the arena or not. Ownership in the 90s bartered away luxury boxes, TV and radio rights to keep ownership of the team. On top of that, the ownership group that financed him received the majority of the team’s revenue: the revenue stemming from tickets, parking, advertising, and concessions under the lease agreement. None of the revenue went to the team. However, in the playoffs, that agreement went out the window. That’s why it was a big deal when we advanced past the Devils in the first round in 1999 because it allowed us to get additional revenue from home playoff games in the next round.

Any team in the league would’ve struggled with that deal. Even the Leafs and Rangers. Attendance or lack thereof didn’t have much to do with why they went bankrupt and nearly had to move.

Obviously we don’t have that problem anymore. Now the lack of attendance could hurt FSG from making a profit but they have more money than God so I could not care less if they lose a little here and there if/when we truly suck.

 

[K Fleur]

Kind of in a (relative) can’t lose spot as a fan this year IMO. If they play well, great. If they suck, great. Purgatory and drafting 10-20 is worst case- but we aren’t rebuilding so doesn't feel like it’s uber-critical to bottom out in the short term. And we’re old so not like we are wasting superstar years if we end up in the middle.

Gonna relax and enjoy the core, and hope the young guys show some flashes and progression. The silver lining to no expectations.

You’re gonna lose time from your life watching this garbage ass team that doesn’t realize it’s a garbage ass team.

Imma still watch though too.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It didn’t matter if the fans filled the arena or not. Ownership in the 90s bartered away luxury boxes, TV and radio rights to keep ownership of the team. On top of that, the ownership group that financed him received the majority of the team’s revenue: the revenue stemming from tickets, parking, advertising, and concessions under the lease agreement. None of the revenue went to the team. However, in the playoffs, that agreement went out the window. That’s why it was a big deal when we advanced past the Devils in the first round in 1999 because it allowed us to get additional revenue from home playoff games in the next round.

Any team in the league would’ve struggled with that deal. Even the Leafs and Rangers. Attendance or lack thereof didn’t have much to do with why they went bankrupt and nearly had to move.

Obviously we don’t have that problem anymore. Now the lack of attendance could hurt FSG from making a profit but they have more money than God so I could not care less if they lose a little here and there if/when we truly suck.

There wasn't a cap then, either. The league just isn't the same now as it was, then.

Plus like I pointed out yesterday... although Pittsburgh isn't a hockey town, at their absolute nadir the Penguins were still drawing like 12K on average... to see Rico Fata and Ric Jackman ply their trade. That's not exactly great and student rush (free tickets) was absolutely a thing. But it's not like the Penguins were playing to 5K every night or something,

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

It didn’t matter if the fans filled the arena or not. Ownership in the 90s bartered away luxury boxes, TV and radio rights to keep ownership of the team. On top of that, the ownership group that financed him received the majority of the team’s revenue: the revenue stemming from tickets, parking, advertising, and concessions under the lease agreement. None of the revenue went to the team. However, in the playoffs, that agreement went out the window. That’s why it was a big deal when we advanced past the Devils in the first round in 1999 because it allowed us to get additional revenue from home playoff games in the next round.

Any team in the league would’ve struggled with that deal. Even the Leafs and Rangers. Attendance or lack thereof didn’t have much to do with why they went bankrupt and nearly had to move.

Obviously we don’t have that problem anymore. Now the lack of attendance could hurt FSG from making a profit but they have more money than God so I could not care less if they lose a little here and there if/when we truly suck.

I didn't know that about the Penguins bankruptcy situation, so thanks.

That said...concerning your last sentence, you might not care whether FSG loses money, but I'm sure they do, and I'm sure its Dubas' job to care too. It's a consideration a fan doesn't need to have, but an executive obviously does.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I didn't know that about the Penguins bankruptcy situation, so thanks.

That said...concerning your last sentence, you might not care whether FSG loses money, but I'm sure they do, and I'm sure its Dubas' job to care too. It's a consideration a fan doesn't need to have, but an executive obviously does.

They built in luxury boxes that companies pay for to help keep the team viable through the rough times. They are no longer reliant on gate revenue.

Their profit margins are what fluctuates.

Forbes on Pens Dec, 2023

They've already made/added over 100.0 on the franchises value since their purchase at .900 million and don't forget the real-estate venture that can pocket them even more revenue. They also took over ATT sports which is now Sportsnet Pittsburgh.

They are hardly going to be hurting.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

In someways it’d be cool if Sid pulled a Tkachuk and we traded him for a haul and then he re-signed with us.

That little quarter-season with another team on his career stat sheet would drive Crosby insane haha

Yea perhaps but 20 games on another team + playoffs could give assets to us to try and compete in the future.

It'd be like Crosby listen we want you here. You want to win. Let's send you off and sign you back after this. Any asset in the trade we get for you. We will use next year for Malkins last year here.

It'd help us.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I mean... at this point it's like... whatever dude wants to do. He's certainly earned that much and more.

But stuff like that seems extremely unlikely to happen to me. Not only is it a rarity in general but I feel like if Crosby is gonna pull the trigger on the idea of moving on he's just gonna do it. Why would he come back at that point if he's ready enough to leave at all? This team has nothing left to offer him except legacy points and empty promises they cannot or will not fulfill. And if he's already accepted a trade elsewhere that whole legacy part of the deal is rather significantly diminished since he wants (or wanted) to be one of the super rare one team franchise players.

If it were me I'd just say "thanks but no thanks the team I moved on to is actually trying and not just SAYING they are."

 

[Ugene Magic]

I mean... at this point it's like... whatever dude wants to do. He's certainly earned that much and more.

But stuff like that seems extremely unlikely to happen to me. Not only is it a rarity in general but I feel like if Crosby is gonna pull the trigger on the idea of moving on he's just gonna do it. Why would he come back at that point if he's ready enough to leave at all? This team has nothing left to offer him except legacy points and empty promises they cannot or will not fulfill.

Personally, the team he gave all the promises too are pretty much all gone. Mario is bound by the smallest thread as a minority owner alienated by FSG.

Crosby probably didn't like losing Jake, though he understands. He holds no ties to FSG, Dubas, Spezza, Clark and all newly appointed heads of the org.

That's all Sid has at this point, his buddies and his legacy.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

They built in luxury boxes that companies pay for to help keep the team viable through the rough times. They are no longer reliant on gate revenue.

Their profit margins are what fluctuates.

Forbes on Pens Dec, 2023

They've already made/added over 100.0 on the franchises value since their purchase at .900 million and don't forget the real-estate venture that can pocket them even more revenue. They also took over ATT sports which is now Sportsnet Pittsburgh.

They are hardly going to be hurting.

The real estate is a development site at the moment correct?

 

[Ugene Magic]

The real estate is a development site at the moment correct?

I believe so.

 

[Tom Hanks]

There's a reason Crosby hasn't re-signed yet. Also Sullivan literally had Sid and Geno healthy for two seasons and didn't do shit with it. So icing a competitive roster while pretending to be some bubble team doesn't really fool anyone anymore and selling off parts slowly does more damage imo than ripping the band-aid off quicker to give fans a better picture of what this team could be post Crosby and Malkin.

The worst is when these franchises hang on forever with these legends and don't do what they should have done sooner.

 

[Tom Hanks]

If they would've just acquired McDonagh this team wins three straight.

Could've just re-signed Bonino too.

Guentzel - Crosby - Hornqvist
Hagelin - Malkin - Kessel
Sheary - Bonino - Rust
ZAR - Sheahan - Rowney

Dump - Letang
McDonagh - Schultz
Maatta - Ruh

This would be a great band name

 

[Sideline]

View attachment 905080

Sid not signing because some company stopped making his favorite pen 20 years ago and Dubas frantically checking draws for one that works is more believable than any of the Canadian media noise.