Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: Dull days of August... Oooo! A trade!

[GilbertSeinfeld]

One of the only good things about Sid moving on would be getting to watch all the yutzs in the media and... otherwise... reverse course and spin how somehow it's a big win for the team, Sullivan and Dubas. Despite handwaving all talk about Sid not being signed yet as "silly" or whatever.

The dream can finally be realized of Noel Acciari being the number one center.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The dream can finally be realized of Noel Acciari being the number one center.

lol it's so sad that this probably isn't actually that far off

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I still can't believe we're going into Crosby's age 37 season and Malkin's age 38 season and the franchise still thinks it's fine that a player like DOC is perfectly reasonable as the top line LWer.

I've never seen an organization force its top guys to do "more with less" than the Penguins. It's especially egregious now that Sid/Geno are no longer in their prime.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think one thing I'd say about Acciari is that I think he'd be a significantly more effective player on this team as a RW rather than a center, just because of how Sullivan's systems use centers. Acciari's main skillset is his speed and forechecking, he's supposed to be a Tanev-lite type of player with that. But center's in Sullivan's system simply don't really use those skills super often, they are usually the high forward in the offensive zone on rushes and forechecks.

I think he'll be much better as a RW this year than he was last year as a center. That being said, I don't really feel much better about Hayes as a center than I do about Acciari as a center.

I still can't believe we're going into Crosby's age 37 season and Malkin's age 38 season and the franchise still thinks it's fine that a player like DOC is perfectly reasonable as the top line LWer.

I've never seen an organization force its top guys to do "more with less" than the Penguins. It's especially egregious now that Sid/Geno are no longer in their prime.

I mean, the team is rebuilding and clearly selling off assets at this point. I'm not particularly interested in handing out huge UFA deals for free agents and I'm even less interested in trading assets for win-now players either.

If you can get a 22 year old cost controlled guy, sure go for it, but who like that is available? There hasn't been a guy like that this off-season who has been traded as far as I know.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I still can't believe we're going into Crosby's age 37 season and Malkin's age 38 season and the franchise still thinks it's fine that a player like DOC is perfectly reasonable as the top line LWer.

I've never seen an organization force its top guys to do "more with less" than the Penguins. It's especially egregious now that Sid/Geno are no longer in their prime.

DOC was at 1.63 5v5 P/P60 last season, with still a sizable chunk of time in the bottom-six.
An average 2nd line wing is like a career 1.75 or 1.80.
His 5v5 goal rate was marginally above Rakell and Smith's. 5th on the team out of regulars.

So let's say there were free agent top-six wings available who would choose Pittsburgh. A reasonable expectation would be something like a 10-15% boost at 5v5 output, with the line getting worse defensively. DOC defends well. Furthermore, that surplus 4 mil weakens the team somewhere else.

The real net gain would come if that new winger is a left-wall PP1 solution. If not? Don't bother imo.

 

[Victor Z]

I still can't believe we're going into Crosby's age 37 season and Malkin's age 38 season and the franchise still thinks it's fine that a player like DOC is perfectly reasonable as the top line LWer.

DOC is of course in way over his head on the top line, but....

This is the same coach who thought that POJ was a "top line" defenseman last year. And lots of the same fans who are bitching about DOC on the top line were OK with that.

At least we won't have to endure that idiocy again this season.

The Pens still don't have a #1 LD any more than they have a true #1 LW. Matt Scrabbleboard sure isn't a true #1 LD, but he's way better than what we had there. And as long as Bunting (who is hardly a #1 LW himself) plays with Malkin -- where he belongs -- then who SHOULD be at #1 LW here? The shiny new toy who has 0:00 of NHL experience?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think DOC is kinda shit tbh but at least they're not like, playing Acciari up there or something. I think Puustinen is kinda shit too but I'd like them to give him a permanent spot in the top-9 with a shot in the top-6 now and then when he's playing well.

But they'd need a coach that wasn't Sullivan and didn't employ his bottom-6 as if he had two 4th lines.

 

[Gurglesons]

DOC was good last year. Not sure I get the hate. He produced great with Sid when he joined the first line.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

DOC was good last year. Not sure I get the hate. He produced great with Sid when he joined the first line.

It's not "hate" of the player. He's fine for what he is. It would just be nice if Sid's not expected to have a 15-20 goal, 40-ish point winger on his line at this point in his career, especially since the winger on the other side isn't exactly elite either to compensate (ie. MacKinnon having Rantanen compensate for their other winger not being all that great).

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'd rather have DOC being a ~30pt guy for less than $1M than Evander Kane being a 45pt guy at $5M at least. Little victories.

 

[Gurglesons]

It's not "hate" of the player. He's fine for what he is. It would just be nice if Sid's not expected to have a 15-20 goal, 40-ish point winger on his line at this point in his career, especially since the winger on the other side isn't exactly elite either to compensate (ie. MacKinnon having Rantanen compensate for their other winger not being all that great).

I mean, this is the first time in like 6 seasons that Sid won't be playing with a top 10-15 LW.

Avs having Rantanen means they haven't ever had a Malkin talent on line 2. That's kinda the situation you gotta put yourself in.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'd rather have DOC being a ~30pt guy for less than $1M than Evander Kane being a 45pt guy at $5M at least. Little victories.

Yeah, good thing we aren't paying Bryan Rust, Rakell, and Bunting like 16 million combined.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah, good thing we aren't paying Bryan Rust, Rakell, and Bunting like 16 million combined.

I said little victories you miserable prick. (Also dump all three of them asap)

 

[Honour Over Glory]

If Sid leaves, he leaves. Just like the blokes here saying you give Sid what he wants, he's a legend. Well you let Sid leave if he wants, he's a legend. He's done all he can for this franchise and in the latter part of his career where if he feels he doesn't really want to toil around on a bubble team in every sense of the word and really, a bubble team is the best case scenario for this team right now, then so be it. I would be fine seeing Crosby decide to finally test the market once in his career before he calls it quits. Like I stated before, Bourque's legacy was never ruined, this whole idiocy of one team for life is overrated. I mean are you to assume when Sid is done, that if he wants to get into coaching or anything, that it should also only be with the Penguins? Nah, f*** all that noise.

If that scenario eventually presents itself, if Sid doesn't re-sign until he sees what he likes on the team and then lets them know at the TDL, then I'm good with it. It's not like he's dying alive or anything.

With that said, it would suck to see Malkin take off too after his contract is over but it wouldn't suck as much if he just went where Sid went and takes a massive discount just to play out a final year on a contender with him again. Letang on the other hand, no sane and rational GM is touching that contract without a very good sweetener, we're stuck with that handsome wanker.

 

[SEALBound]

I have yet to figure out why so many people insist on being down about McGroarty. Before being traded here he was universally praised as a high quality prospect with good leadership skills. He gets traded here and now there's major doubts by everyone and oh man, how could they give up Yager.

It's like trading a 2nd for a 1st and being like "well, we do better in the 2nd round so bad pick".

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Yeah, good thing we aren't paying Bryan Rust, Rakell, and Bunting like 16 million combined.

Bunting and Rakell are multifaceted, I am ok keeping both of them for the ways they help the team because of their game. Bunting is an agitator with his game and drives the net while being able to produce pretty good numbers, Rakell is a fantastic 2-way winger that is a 50+ point player. Rust, as much of a fan I used to be of his, is a shell of his former self. I guess he's Hollywood Rust now because god forbid his f***ing ass backchecks like he wants to win games anymore.

Kane, as much of a muppet that he is, is a physical winger, a powerforward. Comparing him to DOC in any way outside of salary is idiotic. I mean a better comparison for Drew is Beauvillier and even then, Beauvillier is probably a better player than him. As much as I like seeing youth played, I also don't like when blokes have convinced themselves that a young-ish player is something that he's not. Doc is like a defect bin at the dollar store version of Heinen with size that he doesn't use for shit. I thought DOC would be more than that but I just don't see it on this team.

I have yet to figure out why so many people insist on being down about McGroarty. Before being traded here he was universally praised as a high quality prospect with good leadership skills. He gets traded here and now there's major doubts by everyone and oh man, how could they give up Yager.

It's like trading a 2nd for a 1st and being like "well, we do better in the 2nd round so bad pick".

McGroarty in the west, with their heavier game seemed like that sure fire player, but in the East, the skating maybe has people a little worried and I get that, it's funny because many here were starting to be skeptical about Yager before he was dealt, talking about how he wasn't the straw that stirs the drink on his Juniors squad, etc. For me I want to see how he does in camp and go from there. I remember wankers here saying players had skating issues only to see them skate perfectly fine with the rest of the roster.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I said little victories you miserable prick. (Also dump all three of them asap)

Imagine if Dubas dumped all 3, you'd probably still see Sullivan doing this with the roster.

O'Connor, Crosby, Glass
McGroarty, Malkin, Hayes
Beauvillier, Eller, Puljujarvi
Acciari, Lizotte, Bemstrom

 

[PensandCaps]

Why would you dump Bunting and Rust, when they were very good last year.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Imagine if Dubas dumped all 3, you'd probably still see Sullivan doing this with the roster.

O'Connor, Crosby, Glass
McGroarty, Malkin, Hayes
Beauvillier, Eller, Puljujarvi
Acciari, Lizotte, Bemstrom

I'm down. I think it's better to get what you can for those three via trade and start stockpiling the top-10, maybe top-5 picks for the post-Sid/Geno era, as opposed to staying the course and continuing to end up in this no man's land where they're picking 15th overall.

 

[K Fleur]

Bunting is gonna be ass now that Sullivan has had enough time as his coach.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

Interesting to note that Pronman just released his under 23 rankings and has Yager 40ish spots ahead of McGroarty in his rankings. Looks like an L from that standpoint, but it’s hard to understand why Pronman views it that way when there are several other guys like Wheeler who view it differently.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Interesting to note that Pronman just released his under 23 rankings and has Yager 40ish spots ahead of McGroarty in his rankings. Looks like an L from that standpoint, but it’s hard to understand why Pronman views it that way when there are several other guys like Wheeler who view it differently.

Pronman has Pickering as a better prospect than either Yager or McGroarty, which I think anyone who has followed Penguins prospects would argue is criminally stupid.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

If Pronman was good at what he did he would be employed by an NHL club in some scouting capacity. He's just another guy. The Athletic also employs Yohe and Rossi, so y'know, I'm not sure they're some paragon of excellence.

The more likely situation is that Yager and McGroarty are very similar in terms of potential and their ceilings are probably middle-6 guys who chip in depth scoring, albeit with differing styles of play.

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

I have yet to figure out why so many people insist on being down about McGroarty. Before being traded here he was universally praised as a high quality prospect with good leadership skills. He gets traded here and now there's major doubts by everyone and oh man, how could they give up Yager.

It's like trading a 2nd for a 1st and being like "well, we do better in the 2nd round so bad pick".

Especially weird when so many on this board were saying how that’s the exact kind of player we should trade for if we want to get younger/more exciting.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

Pronman has Pickering as a better prospect than either Yager or McGroarty, which I think anyone who has followed Penguins prospects would argue is criminally stupid.

Yeah, he’s well respected by as many people who don’t respect him. So it’s surprising to see these kinds of ratings that are so different from what I’ve generally read or heard.