Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: Dull days of August... Oooo! A trade!

[Pancakes]

They just haven't fully committed to acquiring all the best quality picks they can yet.

They pretty much have though short of deciding to completely nuke the team.

And let's be real, what would they even get for doing that? Crosby, Rust, and EK could bring back good packages. Nobody is paying much for Malkin or Letang any more. Doubt there'd be many assets coming back in a Rakell deal either with his recent mediocre performance and long contract.

If the Pens really did go full nuclear and blow up the team they'd come away from that with a few mid round firsts and decent prospects and a hope that bottoming out will bring with it some lottery luck.

They don't need to do that. They can make a token effort at contending now and rebuild with what assets they can accumulate without nuking it all. And it's not inconceivable anyways that they could tank even with the roster they have. A Sidney Crosby injury could have this team picking in the lottery range without them even having to tear it down to the studs.

 

[Ulf5]

They pretty much have though short of deciding to completely nuke the team.

And let's be real, what would they even get for doing that? Crosby, Rust, and EK could bring back good packages. Nobody is paying much for Malkin or Letang any more. Doubt there'd be many assets coming back in a Rakell deal either with his recent mediocre performance and long contract.

If the Pens really did go full nuclear and blow up the team they'd come away from that with a few mid round firsts and decent prospects and a hope that bottoming out will bring with it some lottery luck.

They don't need to do that. They can make a token effort at contending now and rebuild with what assets they can accumulate without nuking it all. And it's not inconceivable anyways that they could tank even with the roster they have. A Sidney Crosby injury could have this team picking in the lottery range without them even having to tear it down to the studs.

Gonna have to disagree on Geno. Take out the players that played 18 games or less, Geno was 81st in points per game. Take out the D above him, he was 74th in forwards in points per game with only 26% of his points on the power play.. That's only 2.3 better forwards per team. Geno at 50% would return a very decent haul.
No chance in hell we retain on Letang for 4 more years lol.

 

[Pens x]

Hfboards a week ago: We luv BY.

Hfboards since the trade: Yager wasnt even that promising

 

[Gurglesons]

Gonna have to disagree on Geno. Take out the players that played 18 games or less, Geno was 81st in points per game. Take out the D above him, he was 74th in forwards in points per game with only 26% of his points on the power play.. That's only 2.3 better forwards per team. Geno at 50% would return a very decent haul.
No chance in hell we retain on Letang for 4 more years lol.

A decent haul.. as in a 2nd round pick and a prospect that is like 21.

 

[Malkinstheman]

The team had a healthy Sid, Geno, EK, Letang and Guentzel and was still pacing to get a top 7-8 pick until that miraculous run they pulled out of their asses. With continued drop off from the core due to age, this team could easily be picking top-5 in the next year or two.

 

[Ulf5]

A decent haul.. as in a 2nd round pick and a prospect that is like 21.

I think they could do better but it's irrelevant. Not going to happen.

 

[Allie Kitsune]

I kind of don't even think Sid would bring back a 1st at this point.

He's not a 100 point guy anymore.

 

[OnMyOwn]

A whole lot less of a player than Sid has brought back a 1st.

 

[Ulf5]

A whole lot less of a player than Sid has brought back a 1st.

18th in the league in points per game. People off their rockers.

 

[Malkinstheman]

I kind of don't even think Sid would bring back a 1st at this point.

He's not a 100 point guy anymore.

If Sid okayed at least 2-3 teams, I could see GMs paying quite a bit. If he says its Colorado only then the return is probably disappointing.

I mean a 34 year old Henrique got a 1st at the deadline this year

 

[Pancakes]

A decent haul.. as in a 2nd round pick and a prospect that is like 21.

Yeah I don't think anyone is paying a premium package for a 38 year old Malkin.

I kind of don't even think Sid would bring back a 1st at this point.

He's not a 100 point guy anymore.

Sid absolutely would, and I think EK also still would provided the Penguins retained a lot on his contract.

They're the only ones I think on the roster that would fetch that return though.

edit: Thing is though even if you did move Sid for a first + whatever you're getting that first from a team like Colorado or Boston and so it would be a super late first anyways.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

And let's be real, what would they even get for doing that? Crosby, Rust, and EK could bring back good packages. Nobody is paying much for Malkin or Letang any more. Doubt there'd be many assets coming back in a Rakell deal either with his recent mediocre performance and long contract.

It's deeper than just the immediate returns on a trade. It's also everything they can do with all the money that gets left behind. We're talking about Sid re-signing at 3 x 10.5M or something.
31.5 million. Not to mention the 8.7M he has left right now.
Rust has 20.5M left. Rakell has 20M.
Look at how they just weaponized cap space this summer, on smaller deals. 2.5M for Glass - who is probably worth like 1M himself - got us a 3rd and a 6th.
Hayes' 7M over 2 years got us a 2nd, and he may still have good scoring value in the tank. One year removed from 54 points.
In Rakell's case, even if you added a small sweetener to off-load him completely, you can easily recoup that by using the money later. That's a much better idea than just having him stay here and play out his contract, clogging up big cap space for 4 years for no reason.

Karlsson should also go at 50% in 2025-26. That's a very good option for one of the 2 freed up retention slots.
Trade Pettersson now, instead of at the deadline, when the return will be worse. His play serves no purpose for Cups here anymore. All it's accomplishing is making us draft lower.

The Letang deal is tough, admittedly. Signed until 42. But I'd need to see if a GM desperate for immediate results can be convinced first. If not, then yeah, you unfortunately eat that one.
Malkin I think will never play on another NHL team, even if they asked him to waive. He would just go to Russia. He'd get emotional and peace out of North America.
Anyways, there's only 12.2M left on his deal, and he can still help boost the value of others. So that's not too bad.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

If Sid okayed at least 2-3 teams, I could see GMs paying quite a bit. If he says its Colorado only then the return is probably disappointing.

I mean a 34 year old Henrique got a 1st at the deadline this year

Correct. And the cap space he'd leave behind could possibly generate even more for the Pens future than the return on the trade.
If the trade happened now, we're talking about saving 40 million in cap. You can milk that pretty good.
And if they take back cap in the trade, they can demand an increased return for doing that service. Or if those player(s) are valuable, they can be flipped.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I'd start with the ones you should move - Rust is probably the one where teams will still give up a decent amount because his cap hit for what he brings is still pretty damn good. Then slowly go from there, I know Karlsson wouldn't be too difficult either as well as Pettersson and once you get rid of those, you've opened up so much cap and opportunity as well as adding picks. Regardless of how high, getting multiple picks and even reclamation project young prospects is fine.

Then if you're stuck with Letang, its not a big deal. Malkin shouldn't even be a discussion, he has 1yr left and he's likely retiring after that so just leave him be and let him retire with the team he wants to retire on, he's the one that's the closest to being done so moving him just doesn't make sense. Rakell I would wait until the TDL when teams see his shoulder injury is healed and he's back to normal. But I'd start with Petersson & Rust.

 

[The Old Master]

all this trading Sid and Geno.......who can we actually trade without them asking out?

 

[AuroraBorealis]

all this trading Sid and Geno.......who can we actually trade without them asking out?

If Sid is asked to waive for the sake of the future and give a list of teams, he will. That's the kind of guy he is. Team-first. Always was.
He wouldn't flex his NMC and say "f*** ya'll I'm staying 'til I retire."
Judging by the fact that he hasn't re-signed yet and where his mind's at, it's pretty clear that 1 more big push would make it happen.

The return on Malkin and whatever you can do with his money is inconsequential by comparison.

 

[Malkinstheman]

all this trading Sid and Geno.......who can we actually trade without them asking out?

Rust has no trade protection starting on July 1st 2025. If he has a good year there could be decent demand for him.

 

[Gurglesons]

Rust has no trade protection starting on July 1st 2025. If he has a good year there could be decent demand for him.

I think we could get a decent return for Rust at 50% next season.

 

[Pancakes]

It's deeper than just the immediate returns on a trade. It's also everything they can do with all the money that gets left behind. We're talking about Sid re-signing at 3 x 10.5M or something.
31.5 million. Not to mention the 8.7M he has left right now.
Rust has 20.5M left. Rakell has 20M.
Look at how they just weaponized cap space this summer, on smaller deals. 2.5M for Glass - who is probably worth like 1M himself - got us a 3rd and a 6th.
Hayes' 7M over 2 years got us a 2nd, and he may still have good scoring value in the tank. One year removed from 54 points.
In Rakell's case, even if you added a small sweetener to off-load him completely, you can easily recoup that by using the money later. That's a much better idea than just having him stay here and play out his contract, clogging up big cap space for 4 years for no reason.

Karlsson should also go at 50% in 2025-26. That's a very good option for one of the 2 freed up retention slots.
Trade Pettersson now, instead of at the deadline, when the return will be worse. His play serves no purpose for Cups here anymore. All it's accomplishing is making us draft lower.

The Letang deal is tough, admittedly. Signed until 42. But I'd need to see if a GM desperate for immediate results can be convinced first. If not, then yeah, you unfortunately eat that one.
Malkin I think will never play on another NHL team, even if they asked him to waive. He would just go to Russia. He'd get emotional and peace out of North America.
Anyways, there's only 12.2M left on his deal, and he can still help boost the value of others. So that's not too bad.

Yes they could free up cap by tearing it down and then start taking team's bad contracts for additional picks. That would potentially speed up the rebuild, though it would also piss off Sid and probably make him want out. Though Sid hasn't yet signed so that may well be how it has to go anyways. I think he ultimately will sign but it is bizarre to me that it hasn't happened yet.

I still don't think it's necessary to tear it down completely and I think the Pens can rebuild without doing so.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

all this trading Sid and Geno.......who can we actually trade without them asking out?

Pettersson and asking Rust to waive. Easiest start imo, both would return a decent package of picks and B-C level prospects.

Rust has no trade protection starting on July 1st 2025. If he has a good year there could be decent demand for him.

Rust has the production to not worry about struggling to move him and his cap hit isn't even that bad considering he's produced at a rate that justified such a cap hit. Only way I would retain is if a team is willing to give up something Dubas really wants and they'd only do it with some retention.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think extending Marcus Pettersson would be pretty stupid at this point. Dubas definitely f***ed up not moving him sooner in the free agency period. Now he can maybe maximize a decent return at the TDL if Pettersson stays healthy and doesn't have a massive drop off year or anything. But his game has been known for being solid and he has no issues of not performing for a solid top 4 around the league.

If there was a way to take advantage more out of Edmonton with Pettersson, Dubas should, given their D took a decent hit. Pettersson at 50% would be a huge add for them and their defense, especially someone that can baby sit Nurse and provide some better D support that can also skate and has a good outlet pass. But for that to work, there's a lot of movement or I don't even know what their LTIR situation is or anything. But ah well.

 

[Gurglesons]

Pettersson and asking Rust to waive. Easiest start imo, both would return a decent package of picks and B-C level prospects.


Rust has the production to not worry about struggling to move him and his cap hit isn't even that bad considering he's produced at a rate that justified such a cap hit. Only way I would retain is if a team is willing to give up something Dubas really wants and they'd only do it with some retention.

Pettersson is the only piece on our current roster outside of Sid and EK, I think you could get a 1st for.

This is the issue with the idea of moving Sid, Malkin, Letang.

Cap picture lightens up next year no reason to deal franchise legends for mid picks that really do nothing for us.

 

[Pancakes]

I'd consider keeping MP if we're in a playoff spot at the deadline but if we're not he definitely should be shipped out. No question about that.

I have a feeling they'll extend him since he loves being here though and this org hates getting rid of players that want to be in Pittsburgh. They would have kept Jake if he'd actually wanted to stay imo, dumb or not.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Yes they could free up cap by tearing it down and then start taking team's bad contracts for additional picks. That would potentially speed up the rebuild, though it would also piss off Sid and probably make him want out. Though Sid hasn't yet signed so that may well be how it has to go anyways. I think he ultimately will sign but it is bizarre to me that it hasn't happened yet.

I still don't think it's necessary to tear it down completely and I think the Pens can rebuild without doing so.

Surely it would speed things up, yes. That's a ton of picks we're talking about, if they go all-in. Some would hit.
They can do a re-tool, but it won't be effective. The end result will be less quality on the roster, fewer guys outperforming their cap hits, and it will prolong their return to legit contention.
Minnesota tried it, for an extremely long time. It leads to purgatory.
Relying on free agency and trades that much is just not the way. That's for touch-ups, not building an entirely new foundation. The net gains in those transactions are just not big enough to push you over the top. It puts too much pressure on Spezza or Dubas to constantly win trades.

Re-tools are good for when you got a good asset pool and farm system already, and are a small number of big transactions away.
Starting from basically ground zero, like the Pens are at, is entirely different.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

At least we know Cruz Lucius and Rutger McGroarty have chemistry, for the future anyway...unless Sullivan ruins more shit.