Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: Dull days of August... Oooo! A trade!

[AuroraBorealis]

Yeah I was insanely excited after acquiring EK65 and the team finished in almost the exact same spot the next season. There's an anchor dragging down this team no matter what you do

Performance relative to cap hit is how you win. We don't have enough guys who outplay their cap hits. Or when they do, it's not by enough. That's the core problem.
EK is not worth 10M, and wasn't gonna repeat his outlier year. He played closer to 6.5 or 7M. We also gave up 1.5M with Petry's retention. So you're losing like 4.5M in cap value there.
To improve the team through that trade, all they got rid of would have had to be worse, collectively, than that -4.5M in 2023-24.
So it depends on what level you think Granlund, Petry, Ruutta, DeSmith would have played here.
And what's more is that all those contracts were gonna end within a year or 2, and the Pens would have been free if they just kept them. Whereas EK's still on the books for 2 years beyond all of them, and we will be accruing those net negatives there as well.

McGroarty, Puustinen, DOC are guys who are steps in the right direction, because they all will probably outplay their cap hits, if used as regulars.
If we played Puustinen 82 games instead of 52, we may have made the playoffs. Only were missing a few points. But instead we used trash like Harkins, White, Gruden. All of their minutes could have been funneled to more useful players.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

We need this kid's size, effort, and willingness to play in the dirty areas. We haven't had that combination since PH. It's what our PP has been missing, and will give Sid space to work in the O zone by driving the lanes and drawing defenders.

GM's never give up young guys like this. This is exactly what we need Dubas to be doing.

Need it for what? To make round 1 and lose there instead of getting 9th or 10th? To draft lower?
We need guys like him when we're contenders again, and it can make an actual difference with Cup chasing.
McGroarty's only real value to the team will come if he's traded for futures later on.
If they keep him, all it will accomplish is burning ELC years without reward, and improve their standings points at a time where it's better if they're worse.

His development just doesn't line up with our window, unfortunately. I wanna be clear that I like the trade, but there's only value in it if they take the right steps with him later.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You have to be wildly depressed about a team to say that a 20 year old player "doesn't fit their window" and his value is only "if he's traded for futures later on".

Why even follow a team if you're so unhappy about their future?

 

[Tom Hanks]

More like McGRAWRty am I right? XD uwu

But does he cut wood…….McgROWNEY

 

[AuroraBorealis]

You have to be wildly depressed about a team to say that a 20 year old player "doesn't fit their window" and his value is only "if he's traded for futures later on".

Why even follow a team if you're so unhappy about their future?

It's just realism. In what year are they gonna be legit threats to win rounds against strong teams again?
How old is he gonna be then, and what will his cap hit be? Will he be overpaid? Will he even be a Penguin?
Will it be possible to find someone of his quality in free agency, at a similar cap hit? He's just a winger after all, the least desired position.

I like all of the last 4 trades. My interest is team building for Cups though.
It depends on how close you think the Pens are. If they're close, yeah, McGroarty can make a difference. I think we all agree that they're not though.
So I'm not concerned at all about how he'll improve the team next year. It doesn't matter if it's not enough to get past whatever beast team we face in R1.

 

[BusinessGoose]

It's just realism. In what year are they gonna be legit threats to win rounds against strong teams again?
How old is he gonna be then, and what will his cap hit be? Will he be overpaid? Will he even be a Penguin?
Will it be possible to find someone of his quality in free agency, at a similar cap hit? He's just a winger after all, the least desired position.

I like all of the last 4 trades. My interest is team building for Cups though.
It depends on how close you think the Pens are. If they're close, yeah, McGroarty can make a difference. I think we all agree that they're not though.
So I'm not concerned at all about how he'll improve the team next year. It doesn't matter if it's not enough to get past whatever beast team we face in R1.

2029 at the earliest

 

[Ginormousthumbs]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1827076952554901701

 

[AuroraBorealis]

2029 at the earliest

Yeah, and that's on the optimistic side.
Let's say it's 2029 then. What we want is 2025, 2026 high-end picks. We want their ELCs to completely overlap with our window.
McGroarty at 25 y/o at that time will only be helpful if his AAV is reasonable (or a bargain) relative to what he brings. Otherwise you can just find another top-six winger in free agency and get similar results.

I suppose there's also the consideration that high-end, young free agents don't choose the Penguins over others historically. That needs to be factored in as well. We may have to grow our own just for quality to be here, or only the trade (sacrifice) avenue is open to us.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1827076952554901701

So, the Sharks basically traded Hertl for Askarov.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Guys like Yager and McGroarty aren't foundational building blocks but they still have the potential to be really good supporting pieces if things work out. It's important to be getting those pieces whenever you can so the team can actually try to compete as soon as they land those franchise players in the draft. McGroarty is probably still gonna be in his prime by the time the Pens are ready to vie for deep playoff runs again in like 8 years.

 

[wej20]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1827076952554901701

Nice haul for Nashville considering Askarov's only played 3 games in the NHL.

 

[deakka]

Nice haul for Nashville considering Askarov's only played 3 games in the NHL.

Yeah, but he's overated galore. I'd rather have Blomqvist than him. But Blomqvist wouldn't return half of that haul, lol.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Yeah, but he's overated galore. I'd rather have Blomqvist than him. But Blomqvist wouldn't return half of that haul, lol.

Askarov will likely be a good starter but he’s still a goalie and goalies are shitshows when trying to predict 1. If they’ll be good & 2. How long will they be good?

I don’t know the other players at all so hard for me to judge the trade but including 1st rounders would be a non starter (pardon the pun) for me. I know it’s top 10 protected but does that mean it automatically becomes the following year which will probably be a top 10 pick.

 

[Ugene Magic]

McGroarty is a better prospect than Yager though.

Other teams weren't offering a Yager caliber prospect, hence why McGroarty wasn't traded to them.

So Dubas was bidding against himself.

It has nothing to do with who's better, it's all about not having to give up your top prospect for a GM in a jam with a prospect. They simply didn't pay a price and got handsomely rewarded. This was like what JR would have done.

I would rather give up a 1st + Pickering or Koivunen than sending Yager.

 

[wej20]

So Dubas was bidding against himself.

It has nothing to do with who's better, it's all about not having to give up your top prospect for a GM in a jam with a prospect. They simply didn't pay a price and got handsomely rewarded. This was like what JR would have done.

I would rather give up a 1st + Pickering or Koivunen than sending Yager.

They weren't in a jam, he had 2 years left on his rights.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Not arguing Blomqvist is the better prospect but he was in same draft as Askarov, 3rd goalie taken (Askarov 1st).

Better AHL stats… .921 vs .911 in basically same amount of games. Was Blom’s first year in NA, Askarov’s second.

 

[Tom Hanks]

So Dubas was bidding against himself.

It has nothing to do with who's better, it's all about not having to give up your top prospect for a GM in a jam with a prospect. They simply didn't pay a price and got handsomely rewarded. This was like what JR would have done.

I would rather give up a 1st + Pickering or Koivunen than sending Yager.

I’d rather trade Yager than our first. It could be a top 5-10 pick this year.

Winnipeg also didn’t have to trade if they didn’t like the value as Rutger was under control for 2 more years?

 

[Ugene Magic]

They weren't in a jam, he had 2 years left on his rights.

He wasn't signing with them.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Need it for what? To make round 1 and lose there instead of getting 9th or 10th? To draft lower?
We need guys like him when we're contenders again, and it can make an actual difference with Cup chasing.
McGroarty's only real value to the team will come if he's traded for futures later on.
If they keep him, all it will accomplish is burning ELC years without reward, and improve their standings points at a time where it's better if they're worse.

His development just doesn't line up with our window, unfortunately. I wanna be clear that I like the trade, but there's only value in it if they take the right steps with him later.

This trade - unlike a lot of Dubas' moves - does exactly what he said he wanted to do: improve the team to compete now and build for the post-Crosby era with promising youth.

McGroarty is 20 years old and hailed by most as future captain material. How does that not line up with our window? Learning from an all-time great captain in his first few years is somehow a negative for trying to construct a winner when the core is gone?

 

[Tom Hanks]

He wasn't signing with them.

They could still wait and see if that changed. Can still trade him down the track or keep holding him until his rights expire then they get compensation (2nd round pick).

 

[Ulf5]

I’d rather trade Yager than our first. It could be a top 5-10 pick this year.

Winnipeg also didn’t have to trade if they didn’t like the value as Rutger was under control for 2 more years?

And there were multiple teams interested.
Meaning Dubas wasn't bidding against himself.
And teams knew they had to beat the 2nd, likely high 2nd, Chevy would've received as compensation if McGroarty walked. So 1sts had to be offered- either upcoming or recently selected.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I’d rather trade Yager than our first. It could be a top 5-10 pick this year.

Winnipeg also didn’t have to trade if they didn’t like the value as Rutger was under control for 2 more years?

And there's no guarantee they will be any worse than this past year.

As far as not giving him up if they don't like what's offered up, if nobody is offering up a top prospect they are shit out of luck. I think Dubas did them a huge favor and didn't get rewarded for his troubles.

 

[Ugene Magic]

And there were multiple teams interested.
Meaning Dubas wasn't bidding against himself.

Dubas giving up his top prospect says he was because, I doubt any other GM was rewarding him with such.

Being interested doesn't equal to giving the same quality offers, or he would have been traded awhile ago.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Goalies are f***in' weird, man. I would not feel comfortable throwing a buncha assets at a goalie, let alone one who has basically zero NHL experience. I get that a lot of people think he's a sure thing and will be fantastic, and he very well might, but again--goalies are just f***ing weird.

 

[Tom Hanks]

And there's no guarantee they will be any worse than this past year.

As far as not giving him up if they don't like what's offered up, if nobody is offering up a top prospect they are shit out of luck. I think Dubas did them a huge favor and didn't get rewarded for his troubles.

I take it on face value that we likely got better. It was a fair trade. Winnipeg didn’t have to trade him and there’d be other teams who would also want McGroarty.

Each to their own though and they are still prospects so people have their preferences.