Salary Cap: Pens Salary Thread: Pens Ownership "Dubas... that Coca-Cola machine. I want you to shoot the lock off it. There may be some waiver players in there."

[Gurglesons]

I focused on him and Hoglander and didn't hate on him as much as I thought I would. I thought we'd be seeing Smith 2.0 or early season Rakell but I thought he played fairly well. Well enough where I wouldn't be sulking if he's the one added in. Obviously Hoglander did very well too and I'd be thrilled ot add him. But I agree on Mikheyev. Would be an interesting add to either Sid or Geno's line as both have benefited from a Dupuis/Hagelin speedy forward.

Mikheyev is having a very rough year in Vancouver. You'd obviously be hoping he builds back his game here. Which is why I'd rather do the Smith -> Mikheyev swap.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Then I'd want both Lekkerimaki and the 25 1st with Hoglander and Mikheyev.

This is Jake with an extension.

Good luck with that

That's because you don't watch Vancouver probably. Getting Hoglander + a prospect like Podkolzin and picks is a huge win for a UFA.

I said I might be able to stomach it if you can convince me Podkolzin wasn't a bust. Just saying "you don't watch Vancouver" doesn't do anything to convince me Podkolzin is not a bust.

If you change Podkolzin to Raty, who I actually like as a prospect, I'd be fine with Mikheyev, Hoglander, Raty and a 2025 1st for Guentzel.

 

[Gurglesons]

Who do you like more Lekkerimaki or Brisson? The former might have more upside.

I don't think Lekkerimaki is getting traded by Vancouver. If he does, I think he's the central piece for a player with term. Not a UFA like Jake.

It is Rutherford so I could see it happening.. But Penguins fans are going to be really disappointed if they are expecting a prospect the caliber of Lekkerimaki.

Good luck with that



I said I might be able to stomach it if you can convince me Podkolzin wasn't a bust. Just saying "you don't watch Vancouver" doesn't do anything to convince me Podkolzin is not a bust.

If you change Podkolzin to Raty, who I actually like as a prospect, I'd be fine with Mikheyev, Hoglander, Raty and a 2025 1st for Guentzel.

Podkolzin is light years better than Raty IMO as a prospect.

My point is more so about Hoglander being a legitimate NHLer that has shown flashes of being an impact player. Getting him is the "big piece". If you get Hoglander and a 1st that's pretty insane value for Jake. Hoglander probably is a 50-60 pt forward with Sid.

 

[SEALBound]

Mikheyev is having a very rough year in Vancouver. You'd obviously be hoping he builds back his game here. Which is why I'd rather do the Smith -> Mikheyev swap.

Yeah, I would do that. I would likely want something minor for taking on the contract. Maybe a swap of prospects? Smith+Plante for Mikheyev+Podkolzin?

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah, I would do that. I would likely want something minor for taking on the contract. Maybe a swap of prospects? Smith+Plante for Mikheyev+Podkolzin?

I don't think you're getting much more than a 3rd round pick unless you retain and maybe you can get higher.

 

[Ulf5]

Hoping for Wyatt Earp from Dallas or for Jimmy to overpay and give us Lekkerimaki, Hoglander plus. Maybe we have to add Ned to the deal.

 

[Ugene Magic]

He'd be our youngest top six winger lol.

Semantics... Barely, he'll be 30 in Oct.

Garland will be 28 next month. Has a much more proven track record.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Podkolzin is light years better than Raty IMO as a prospect.

My point is more so about Hoglander being a legitimate NHLer that has shown flashes of being an impact player. Getting him is the "big piece". If you get Hoglander and a 1st that's pretty insane value for Jake. Hoglander probably is a 50-60 pt forward with Sid.

I just don't see this with Podkolzin, he really doesn't seem to be progressing well. I'd much rather have Raty at this point.

I think the issue here is that other team are going to out-bid Hoglander and a 2025 1st for Vancouver if that's all they're offering. I take your Vegas proposal above (Brisson, a 2024 1st and a 2024 2nd) over Hoglander and a 2025 1st super easily. Now if it's Hoglander, Raty and a 2025 1st, that's an actual debate where I'd probably lean towards Vancouver.

If Vancouver is just offering Hoglander, Podkolzin, a 2nd and 3rd, I think that firmly gets beat out by what Vegas or Carolina would offer.

 

[Gurglesons]

I just don't see this with Podkolzin, he really doesn't seem to be progressing well. I'd much rather have Raty at this point.

I think the issue here is that other team are going to out-bid Hoglander and a 2025 1st for Vancouver if that's all they're offering. I take your Vegas proposal above (Brisson, a 2024 1st and a 2024 2nd) over Hoglander and a 2025 1st super easily. Now if it's Hoglander, Raty and a 2025 1st, that's an actual debate where I'd probably lean towards Vancouver.

If Vancouver is just offering Hoglander, Podkolzin, a 2nd and 3rd, I think that firmly gets beat out by what Vegas or Carolina would offer.

I'd suggest watching him. He looks good, has proven he is NHL caliber and is in the AHL because they are attempting to do the same exact thing they did with Hoglander. He was rushed to the NHL.

Raty is a shitty skater and has not looked good at all in his NHL minutes. Podkolzin is exactly the type of player you can bring in that is a big time factor in our bottom six next year.

 

[Ryder71]

I'm going back with my original Premise, Hoglander and a '25 1st. If Lekk is available I'd switch out the first. Any two of those three. But getting a guy who's already performing at the NHL level is likely appealing to the masses as well as Sid.

 

[Maninthebox87]

Just briefly going over Dallas’s prospect pool I do like some of them at first glance as far as how available any of them are I have no clue.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'd suggest watching him. He looks good, has proven he is NHL caliber and is in the AHL because they are attempting to do the same exact thing they did with Hoglander. He was rushed to the NHL.

Raty is a shitty skater and has not looked good at all in his NHL minutes. Podkolzin is exactly the type of player you can bring in that is a big time factor in our bottom six next year.

I don't understand how you can say Podkolzin was rushed to the NHL while also saying Raty, who's younger than Podkolzin, sucked in the NHL. Raty just turned 21 in November, he's still super young.

Raty is having the better AHL season statistically, is a year younger and plays a more important position. I'd much rather target Raty with the plans of him taking over the 3C role in the near future. If it's Mikheyev, Hoglander, Raty and a 2025 1st for a rental Guentzel, I can be satisfied with that. If it's Podkolzin in place of Raty, I'd be pretty disappointed until Podkolzin shows me more than what his stats suggest.

 

[Ryder71]

I also think the VAN might be a little more generous in a trade than some other teams.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't understand how you can say Podkolzin was rushed to the NHL while also saying Raty, who's younger than Podkolzin, sucked in the NHL. Raty just turned 21 in November, he's still super young.

Raty is having the better AHL season statistically, is a year younger and plays a more important position. I'd much rather target Raty with the plans of him taking over the 3C role in the near future. If it's Mikheyev, Hoglander, Raty and a 2025 1st for a rental Guentzel, I can be satisfied with that. If it's Podkolzin in place of Raty, I'd be pretty disappointed until Podkolzin shows me more than what his stats suggest.

Because Podkolzin was rushed into the NHL at 20 on a terrible team and expected to be a 12+ minute guy.

Podkolzin just has a better skill set, I trust to be more beneficial to this team moving forward. He's a hungry player. He has finesse ability, but he plays a dirty game.

Raty is a fringe top six C. I don't see it with him at all.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Because Podkolzin was rushed into the NHL at 20 on a terrible team and expected to be a 12+ minute guy.

Podkolzin just has a better skill set, I trust to be more beneficial to this team moving forward. He's a hungry player. He has finesse ability, but he plays a dirty game.

Raty is a fringe top six C. I don't see it with him at all.

Yeah, Raty's upside is a 2-way middle-6 center. At best, he projects to be a very good playmaking/defensive 2C. I think this team desperately needs that. I'd buy Podkolzin has a higher upside than Raty, I just really like what Raty projects to be.

To me, I just really like how a 3rd line of O'Connor-Raty-Puustinen looks to me for next year. With adding Podkolzin, you still have Eller as your 3C and I'm not entirely sure how to set up the bottom-6. I'd rather have this bottom-6 for next year:

O'Connor-Raty-Puustinen/Bemstrom
Nieto-Eller-Acciari

than

O'Connor-Eller-Puustinen/Bemstrom
Podkolzin-Acciari-Nieto

 

[Ugene Magic]

Plus, does Jake want to move north of the border?

Let alone wanting to leave at all?

He's the most valuable get this TDL with multiple suiters bidding for his services. Without a hefty deal you simply keep him, and sign him and move others out.

 

[Ryder71]

Plus, does Jake want to move north of the border?

Let alone wanting to leave at all?

He's the most valuable get this TDL with multiple suiters bidding for his services. Without a hefty deal you simply keep him, and sign him and move others out.

What if he doesn't sign? No, he needs to be moved, he's the Belle of the ball and will command very good return at a minimum.. You absolutely need to move him. We need get more youth into this organIzation.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Plus, does Jake want to move north of the border?

Let alone wanting to leave at all?

He's the most valuable get this TDL with multiple suiters bidding for his services. Without a hefty deal you simply keep him, and sign him and move others out.

Unless Jake is willing to play with a sign and trade, where he wants to go isn't particularly relevant.

If he's just moving as a rental, the Penguins just take the best offer available. If he's willing to sign an extension with a team and a team is willing to pay more because of it, then you pick the trade based on where Guentzel is willing to sign.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah, Raty's upside is a 2-way middle-6 center. At best, he projects to be a very good playmaking/defensive 2C. I think this team desperately needs that. I'd buy Podkolzin has a higher upside than Raty, I just really like what Raty projects to be.

To me, I just really like how a 3rd line of O'Connor-Raty-Puustinen looks to me for next year. With adding Podkolzin, you still have Eller as your 3C and I'm not entirely sure how to set up the bottom-6. I'd rather have this bottom-6 for next year:

O'Connor-Raty-Puustinen/Bemstrom
Nieto-Eller-Acciari

than

O'Connor-Eller-Puustinen/Bemstrom
Podkolzin-Acciari-Nieto

As long as Malkin is here, he is 2C.

I don't see the reason in buying a player like Raty that likely has no fit here in the Crosby / Geno era.

That is why I'd add Podkolzin. He helps cycle out winger depth or move a player like Smith / Rust down to L3.

That's what we should be trying to acquire in trades. You then flip those players as the window closes for more picks.

If I'm targeting a prospect or player, I want someone that you can bring in and pump up and then dump in 2-3 years. That's why I like Hoglander and Podkolzin. I think we could find spots for them on this roster. Get them performing and then when Malkin retires you can easily sell them off for picks to begin the rebuild.

 

[Empoleon8771]

As long as Malkin is here, he is 2C.

I don't see the reason in buying a player like Raty that likely has no fit here in the Crosby / Geno era.

That is why I'd add Podkolzin. He helps cycle out winger depth or move a player like Smith / Rust down to L3.

That's what we should be trying to acquire in trades. You then flip those players as the window closes for more picks.

Is is going off on a separate tangent entirely, but I think there's a very compelling discussion to have about moving Raty to 2C and Malkin to 2RW in the future if Raty his his upside.

 

[Gurglesons]

Is is going off on a separate tangent entirely, but I think there's a very compelling discussion to have about moving Raty to 2C and Malkin to 2RW in the future if Raty his his upside.

Raty is not going to be an impact 2C within Malkin's contract IMO. (I don't think he ever will be.)

This is why I like the build of a Mikheyev, Hoglander, Podkolzin trade. Gives you a top nine winger now who you can likely flip in a year or two. Hoglander who is a potential top nine winger with top six potential, and Podkolzin who is a scratch ticket. All are NHL ready. Podkolzin or Hoglander may not be a great fit, but you are getting help now that you can potential turn into assets in a few years.

I just can't see Vancouver moving two forwards off their actual roster to improve.

 

[SEALBound]

I don't think you're getting much more than a 3rd round pick unless you retain and maybe you can get higher.

If we trade Jake to anywhere else, we have the room to do that potentially.

Jake+Poulin to Vegas with nothing retained for 1st, Brisson, Doro.
Smith @50% to Van for Mikheyev

That would be perfectly fine. That would be a hell of a restock for next year.

I also think the VAN might be a little more generous in a trade than some other teams.

Actually, I'm more of the opinion that they might not be as generous as other teams. I think they blew their wad on Lindholm so the next move is more of a depth/secondary move. Which why, the more I think, the more I'm betting they don't go for Guentzel unless it's a meager return like Miky+2nd. Which is unlikely. Or maybe the Barbashev-trade model where it's Lekkerimaki straight up (like it was Zach Dean for Barbashev)

 

[Ryder71]

If we trade Jake to anywhere else, we have the room to do that potentially.

Jake+Poulin to Vegas with nothing retained for 1st, Brisson, Doro.
Smith @50% to Van for Mikheyev

That would be perfectly fine. That would be a hell of a restock for next year.

Actually, I'm more of the opinion that they might not be as generous as other teams. I think they blew their wad on Lindholm so the next move is more of a depth/secondary move. Which why, the more I think, the more I'm betting they don't go for Guentzel unless it's a meager return like Miky+2nd. Which is unlikely. Or maybe the Barbashev-trade model where it's Lekkerimaki straight up (like it was Zach Dean for Barbashev)

I doubt they'd be like that, but if that['s the case there's other teams. They know better than any team what kind of player Jake is in the post season. No, if they really want him I would think they'd offer very good return.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Plus, does Jake want to move north of the border?

Let alone wanting to leave at all?

He's the most valuable get this TDL with multiple suiters bidding for his services. Without a hefty deal you simply keep him, and sign him and move others out.

Unless Jake is willing to play with a sign and trade, where he wants to go isn't particularly relevant.

If he's just moving as a rental, the Penguins just take the best offer available. If he's willing to sign an extension with a team and a team is willing to pay more because of it, then you pick the trade based on where Guentzel is willing to sign.

In terms of canadian places to play hockey in, Vancouver is probably tops. Toronto is a better city, but you've got their media. B.C. is a nice slab of land. Jake is a Minnesota boy anyway, it's not like he's a stranger to hockey-centric areas in cold weather.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

IMO, Van doesn't have the assets to get Jake. Let EDM and VGK out-bid each other for him.