Salary Cap: Pens Salary Thread: Pens Ownership "Dubas... that Coca-Cola machine. I want you to shoot the lock off it. There may be some waiver players in there."

[Ryder71]

Honestly, I'd be great with Lekkerimaki, . But both Hoglander and Lekkerimaki seems like a bit too much for Jake. I'd do that in a SEC.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Mikheyev is the same age as Jake and doesn't fit the bill, and neither does their 25 1st, it's basically scraps while 100% of the trade relies on Lekkerimaki to pan out.

Jake with an extension is more in the Garland, Hoglander and Lekkerimaki territory.

I mean sure, I'm happy to get Garland as the cap equalizer in place of Mikheyev if that's what Vancouver wants to do. I just don't really see much of a difference between those two for the Penguins. The value coming from a Guentzel trade is the futures you'd get for Guentzel, not the cap coming back to make a deal possible.

I also don't see much of a difference between Hoglander and a 2025 1st in value, they seem pretty even. I think you can argue either way with them.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Even With an extension I'm not so sure we could get all three of those pieces. And I truly believe we'll get a haul for Jake.

It's really not much better than having Mikheyev in there.

Garland is 4.950 for 2 more then UFA
Hoglander is 1.1 for 1 more then RFA
Lekkerimaki is 2 more on his ELC and RFA

That's a fair deal for an extended Guenzel. The cap is a wash and no need for retention.

We are preying on JR's fair nature he posed around these parts.

 

[Ryder71]

It's really not much better than having Mikheyev in there.

Garland is 4.850 for 2 more then UFA
Hoglander is 1.1 for 1 more then RFA
Lekkerimaki is 2 more on his ELC and RFA

That's a fair deal for an extended Guenzel. The cap is a wash and no need for retention.

We are preying on JR's fair nature he posed around these parts.

If VAN would do that I'd drive Jake to the airport. Even with an extension I doubt we could get all three pieces there. I'd be all for it however!

 

[SEALBound]

Vegas honestly has more appealing pieces to me than Vancouver, assuming Vancouver wouldn't trade Lekkerimaki for Guentzel. Vegas has Brisson as the main piece, but I also like Dorofeyev as another target.

I think you could probably pull off Brisson, Dorofeyev, a 2024 1st and a 2024 2nd for Guentzel from Vegas. I know it's "LET'S PLAY THE RUSSIAN WITH MALKIN", but slide Dorofeyev onto Malkin's line and have Malkin be a mentor for him. Also Brisson's dad is Crosby's agent, which makes another funny connection to me.

That's an expensive gamble for Vegas but it puts them in a hell of a good position to repeat if Eichel and Stone come back 100%.

I'm not convinced that Vegas gives up that much considering their cap situation next year. I assume they resign Marchy and that only leaves them with $7-8mil to fill out a 4th line. Course, that's basic speculation as who knows what their LTIR is like come next year. But I imagine they would be depending on at least one of them to fill a bottom 6 production role, especially if they are giving up a 1st and 2nd. With that, I'd ask for their 2025 1st to off set the one we will lose to SJ. Or you can even make it conditional - if Pens lose 2024 1st, 2024. If they keep their 24 1st, 2025.

That only matters if they're willing to dip into assets they frankly shouldn't be trading for Guentzel.

Yeah, but their forward is pretty solid. I'm going to assume EP signs.

EP, Miller, Boeser, Garland, Mikheyev, Suter, Hoglander, Aman, Bains, Dakota...and they can add a guy like Podkolzin, Raty, or Klimovich and round out the 4th line in FA. If it's Mikheyev or Hoglander, I think they have enough in their group to compensate. Obviously, not so on defense. So even if Jake is a rental, I can still see them giving up Lekkerimaki and a 1st because they have the depth to compensate.

I take the same view with our defense when it comes to the likes of Pickering or POJ or Smith. With a top 4 of Pettersson, Letang, Graves, Karlsson, we only need maintain a bottom pairing which you can do easily through free agency or with 1-2 of who we have. Hell, Ludvig-Shea would be more than serviceable so we would withstand trading out a young guy or two in Pickering, POJ, Smith if it means getting back a better impact piece. I wouldn't balk one bit at including JR's guy - POJ - in the trade proposals either to help even things out. Lord knows they will looking to restock their defense next year.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That's an expensive gamble for Vegas but it puts them in a hell of a good position to repeat if Eichel and Stone come back 100%.

Yeah I realized it's far too much from Vegas. Brisson, Dorofeyev and the 2024 1st seems like the best case scenario from Vegas, and even then, I'm second guessing if it's too much.

 

[Gurglesons]

Mikheyev is a Hagelin type player that could have a big impact on our top 9. Not sure why we are hating on him?

 

[Ugene Magic]

I mean sure, I'm happy to get Garland as the cap equalizer in place of Mikheyev if that's what Vancouver wants to do. I just don't really see much of a difference between those two for the Penguins. The value coming from a Guentzel trade is the futures you'd get for Guentzel, not the cap coming back to make a deal possible.

I also don't see much of a difference between Hoglander and a 2025 1st in value, they seem pretty even. I think you can argue either way with them.

Garland is a guy holding a much better resume.
Hoglander at current times being in the NHL and producing far out weighs a late 25 1st that will not be helping this team for years to come, if he even pans out in the lower ranks.

That puts all the emphasis on Lekkerinaki being the main piece.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Garland is a guy holding a much better resume.
Hoglander at current times being in the NHL and producing far out weighs a late 25 1st that will not be helping this team for years to come, if he even pans out in the lower ranks.

That puts all the emphasis on Lekkerinaki being the main piece.

Which is exactly why Vancouver wouldn't want to trade him.

In terms of value, he and a 2025 1st are really even. I imagine Vancouver will want as much NHL talent as they can get, so they'd much prefer to trade a 2025 1st over him. Both options seem like fine options to me.

 

[MeinerEiner]

The thing with VAN is they have people in the FO who know what is takes to win and know Jake really well. I can’t see VAN not making a big push for Jake, especially with this season being their big shot at the cup.

This year is their big shot at the cup and they know it.

All Dubas has to do is to play his hand the right way and maximize the return, also on guys like Smith, Eller etc.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'd take Mikheyev over Garland tbh.

Garland is more of the same of what we have in Rust, Smith, Rakell, etc.

Mikheyev, Podkolzin, Hoglander

+

2nd, 3rd or a 1st

 

[Maninthebox87]

Mikheyev is a Hagelin type player that could have a big impact on our top 9. Not sure why we are hating on him?

Is he a burner like Hagelin? I didn’t really notice him last nite. That’s honestly the type of player they miss.

 

[Ryder71]

I mean sure, I'm happy to get Garland as the cap equalizer in place of Mikheyev if that's what Vancouver wants to do. I just don't really see much of a difference between those two for the Penguins. The value coming from a Guentzel trade is the futures you'd get for Guentzel, not the cap coming back to make a deal possible.

I also don't see much of a difference between Hoglander and a 2025 1st in value, they seem pretty even. I think you can argue either way with them.

The deal you set forth with Mikeyev, 25 1st and Lekkerimaki would be great but I think even for Jake extended that's a lot. Id prefer Garland, but I think a more realistic approach would Be Lekkerimaki and Hoglander. Considering Hoglander has already mage the NHL I'd probably rank him a little higher than a '25 1st and I'm all about Accruing 1sts.

 

[Gurglesons]

Is he a burner like Hagelin? I didn’t really notice him last nite. That’s honestly the type of player they miss.

Not as fast. But 73rd percentile according to NHL Edge.

 

[Ryder71]

I'd take Mikheyev over Garland tbh.

Garland is more of the same of what we have in Rust, Smith, Rakell, etc.

Mikheyev, Podkolzin, Hoglander

+

2nd, 3rd or a 1st

How about Hoglander and Lekkerimaki?

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'd take Mikheyev over Garland tbh.

Garland is more of the same of what we have in Rust, Smith, Rakell, etc.

Mikheyev, Podkolzin, Hoglander

+

2nd, 3rd or a 1st

If they're not getting either a 1st or Lekkerimaki from Vancouver for Guentzel, I'd want Dubas fired.

Mikheyev, Podkolzin, Hoglander and a 2025 1st for Guentzel still seems super mid to me, but I could probably stomach it if someone can convince me Podkolzin wasn't a bust. But having a 2nd and 3rd instead of a 1st? Fire Dubas if he makes that move.

 

[Goodleaf]

I take

Mikheyev is a Hagelin type player that could have a big impact on our top 9. Not sure why we are hating on him?

I think if nothing else he would be a better fit than Smith.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Mikheyev is a Hagelin type player that could have a big impact on our top 9. Not sure why we are hating on him?

Because he's not bringing about youth.

 

[Maninthebox87]

Not as fast. But 73rd percentile according to NHL Edge.

Even so having guys like that was what made Sullys system work those years they got rid of a guy like Perron and brought in Hagelin and brought in all the young guys like Wilson and Sheary who were quick. I honestly don’t remember Matt Cullen being that slow for an older guy even.

 

[Gurglesons]

If they're not getting either a 1st or Lekkerimaki from Vancouver for Guentzel, I'd want Dubas fired.

Mikheyev, Podkolzin, Hoglander and a 2025 1st for Guentzel still seems super mid to me, but I could probably stomach it if someone can convince me Podkolzin wasn't a bust. But having a 2nd and 3rd instead of a 1st? Fire Dubas if he makes that move.

That's because you don't watch Vancouver probably. Getting Hoglander + a prospect like Podkolzin and picks is a huge win for a UFA.

Because he's not bringing about youth.

He'd be our youngest top six winger lol.

 

[Maninthebox87]

I take

I think if nothing else he would be a better fit than Smith.

For every 30 year old in I want a 30 year old out

 

[Gurglesons]

I take

I think if nothing else he would be a better fit than Smith.

Ideally the trade with Vancouver would be Mikheyev + for Smith.

Then we could move Jake to another team that we are more likely to get a 1st from.

For example... Mikheyev + 2rd for Reilly Smith at 4.75.

Jake Guentzel for Brisson, Kolesar, 1st and 2nd.

Rakell - Crosby - Rust
DOC - Malkin - Puustinen
Brisson - Eller - Mikheyev
Nieto - Acciari - Kolesar
Carter

This year.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Which is exactly why Vancouver wouldn't want to trade him.

In terms of value, he and a 2025 1st are really even. I imagine Vancouver will want as much NHL talent as they can get, so they'd much prefer to trade a 2025 1st over him. Both options seem like fine options to me.

Then I'd want both Lekkerimaki and the 25 1st with Hoglander and Mikheyev.

This is Jake with an extension.

 

[SEALBound]

Yeah I realized it's far too much from Vegas. Brisson, Dorofeyev and the 2024 1st seems like the best case scenario from Vegas, and even then, I'm second guessing if it's too much.

I could see 1st (24/25), one of Brisson or Dorofeyev, and then a 3rd asset based on which prospect it is. Brisson, add a 25 3rd. Doro, 24 2nd. Something like that. If they send out both for a rental, that really depletes the cupboards for them on forward. Unless maybe we are willing to send someone back with them like Poulin.

I kind of have that same thought about Vancouver where I think Jake is a pure rental as well. Not sure the Mikheyev, Hoglander, 1st/Lekky is realistic. Just like if 2-3 years ago we wanted a high-end rental, we might have balked at giving up Poulin and Pickering and a 1st.

It's just tough for him to go to teams as a rental but I'm also trying to figure out where Jake would even sign next year and if there are any teams that would trade a big package for him now. Like if he wants to sign in Arizona, they ain't giving us anything now, they'd just wait. That "trade and sign" value is highly limited with the only maybes being Dallas and Carolina.

Mikheyev is a Hagelin type player that could have a big impact on our top 9. Not sure why we are hating on him?

I focused on him and Hoglander and didn't hate on him as much as I thought I would. I thought we'd be seeing Smith 2.0 or early season Rakell but I thought he played fairly well. Well enough where I wouldn't be sulking if he's the one added in. Obviously Hoglander did very well too and I'd be thrilled ot add him. But I agree on Mikheyev. Would be an interesting add to either Sid or Geno's line as both have benefited from a Dupuis/Hagelin speedy forward.

 

[Ryder71]

Ideally the trade with Vancouver would be Mikheyev + for Smith.

Then we could move Jake to another team that we are more likely to get a 1st from.

For example... Mikheyev + 2rd for Reilly Smith at 4.75.

Jake Guentzel for Brisson, Kolesar, 1st and 2nd.

Rakell - Crosby - Rust
DOC - Malkin - Puustinen
Brisson - Eller - Mikheyev
Nieto - Acciari - Kolesar
Carter

This year.

Who do you like more Lekkerimaki or Brisson? The former might have more upside.