Salary Cap: Pens Salary Thread: Pens Ownership "Dubas... that Coca-Cola machine. I want you to shoot the lock off it. There may be some waiver players in there."

[SEALBound]

Here's something I thought about in the shower last night after beer league: Who else does Dubas have to consult with? Like besides Sullivan and the coaching staff? Who does he sit down with and discuss the philosophy and direction of the team with? I remembered that Spezza is the AGM and Daley is a special assistant. Then you have Doug Wilson as a senior advisor. I would like to think these guys are sitting down with each other and having frank conversations about the state of the team...and I find it very hard to believe that they are all like "Why yes, Mike Sullivan is our man! Without a shred of doubt!"

PhYsICaLITy...

Gimme a break. This team won back-to-back cups staying away from the bullshit and outskating everyone.

I think there is SOME credibility that though. I think the days of the Reaves-ies are going away unless you get yourself a Tkachuk or Tom Wilson but I think Tampa and Vegas laid out a pretty good template where you have speedy skilled forwards and on the back end you have a good puck mover or two combined with a couple physical crease clearers.

We have some decent skill guys and PMD but we have little physicality on the back end.

This is more of a general comment I've seen in proposals here, not intending to directly criticize you @molon labe but just in general. I agree that a full rebuild is the best course of action with this team at this point, and while I can see a situation where re-signing Guentzel and going a retool route could make sense, I still don't think that is the best option here. However, I think there's more to consider in a rebuild than just "blow up the team right now".

Specifically, the big thing I'm worried about is the internal development of these prospects that you acquire if you acquire a massive amount of prospects all at once. That's part of the reason why I'm supportive of a more gradual tear-down, there is less of a risk of wasting potential than if you get a bunch of prospects all at once.

To me, I think trading Guentzel, Smith and Nedjelkovic right now is a no brainer. But with most everyone else, I think it makes more sense to not trade them right now and be more gradual about it. Just speaking of specific players:

-Rakell: I think you try to build up his value and get him to repeat his 2022-2023 before selling him
-Pettersson: I think you can re-sign him and still trade him for a huge haul in 2-3 years
-Jarry: I think you have him mentor Blomqvist for a year or two and then sell him off when he's having a strong season
-Rust: I would probably try to trade him next year due to the risk I see with him regressing

In order for it to be a true rebuild, you have to get REALLY bad and get those top picks at the right time. You want the next Sid/McDavid/Matthews and not the next Hall, RNH, Yakupov. And honestly, I don't think we get there with Sid on the team. He will carry the team, alone, to the 10ov at best/worst. So I can't see a rebuild but I can see a retool. Get 2-3 young guys out of what we have, try again next year, and if that doesn't happen, sell off one or two, keep collecting higher picks, and then when the core is ready to go, you sell off the good assets you just got from this retool, get bad, get the picks, and THEN formulate the rebuild.

This retool is a half measure, 100% and I 100% acknowledge that it's not likely leading to a cup but I think it's what we owe Sid, Malkin, and Letang. I'm okay watching a few young guys ride it out with the core and push for a playoff spot. If it happens great and if not, oh well. We all knew this day would come and it would such and we all know that we can't suck bad enough to rebuild until they are gone.

So go for it Dubas - retool. Get aggressive. Trade Jake, Smith, Jarry, Pettersson, Eller, and Acciari. Get picks and prospects. Retool next year and see what happens. I'm okay with trying and failing especially when trying involves a couple high-risk moves. I'm not okay going off silently into the night because they are too in love with Mike Sullivan.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'd also add that you don't need to make everyone on the roster the same style. In fact, you shouldn't. The Pens won back-to-back Cups because they had a mixture of talent (Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Guentzel for second one, Letang for the first one), physicality (Kunitz, Hornqvist, Cole), and speedsters (Hags, young Rust, Sheary) throughout the lineup.

I think this team can be competitive with a group of DOC, Puustinen, Crosby, Malkin, Rust, and Rakell as the skeleton for our top nine if they add two pieces that fit differently.

 

[pistolpete11]

I think this team can be competitive with a group of DOC, Puustinen, Crosby, Malkin, Rust, and Rakell as the skeleton for our top nine if they add two pieces that fit differently.

*assuming Sullivan is no longer the HC.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Sullivan will be coaching NJ by New Year’s (I hope)

 

[Trade]

Ron Hextall had way more of a plan than Dubas had.

People are giving Dubas credit for "pivoting". So dumb.

Point is FSG isn’t going to be as hard on Dubas as they were with Hextall since Dubas is THEIR guy. There won’t be hard-hitting questions that make you believe a team wants a championship more than to run a profitable boy’s club. They’ve already shown that with Sully.

Hextall got publicly called out by ownership shortly after a game 7 loss. Meanwhile, we’re going to miss playoffs again after hiring an alleged hockey super-genius for two positions, and still not a peep from FSG.

At this point, each wasted year is more dire than the last. The writing is on the wall for this season.

Dubas knew coming in that we had like ~3 years of possible contention left. So now what?

 

[Gurglesons]

Sullivan will be coaching NJ by New Year’s (I hope)

Jack Hughes - Nico Hischer - Eric Haula line is gonna be a beast.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think we know of 5 teams in on Guentzel between Vegas, Vancouver, Carolina, Florida and Edmonton, but I wonder what team makes it 6 and what teams may be interested beyond that.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think we know of 5 teams in on Guentzel between Vegas, Vancouver, Carolina, Florida and Edmonton, but I wonder what team makes it 6 and what teams may be interested beyond that.

I feel like Nashville is a dark horse.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The fact that Dubas came in here knowing damned well where the team was at and still used it as a "evaluating season" is reason enough for me to slide over to the "don't like/trust this guy" side until he can prove emphatically otherwise. Though I think that's too late, now.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I feel like Nashville is a dark horse.

I just saw a Nashville fan on the main boards say that Nashville is apparently in on him as well.

 

[McGroarty2]

I just saw a Nashville fan on the main boards say that Nashville is apparently in on him as well.

They have the best prospect pool.

 

[Gurglesons]

I just saw a Nashville fan on the main boards say that Nashville is apparently in on him as well.

Makes sense. They are playing really well and probably could get rid of some pieces and not move anything off their roster and potentially re-sign him.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I think we know of 5 teams in on Guentzel between Vegas, Vancouver, Carolina, Florida and Edmonton, but I wonder what team makes it 6 and what teams may be interested beyond that.

Detroit maybe

 

[Gurglesons]

Parssinen, 1st, 3rd Glass for Jake at 50%.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Wouldn't it be something if Jake took one for the team here, f***s off for a big rental package and a shot at the cup and comes back and signs with us in July!!

 

[Gurglesons]

Wouldn't it be something if Jake took one for the team here, f***s off for a big rental package and a shot at the cup and comes back and signs with us in July!!

I could see that happening tbh. Especially if he wins a cup. And my feelings are if a team like Edmonton, Vancouver or Vegas adds Jake they are winning the cup.

 

[SEALBound]

Jake (extended) + Poulin for Hoglander + Lekkerimaki
Pettersson+Jarry for Bahl, Mercer, 1st
Smith for Sprong + 2nd
Rakell for Tolvanen+2nd
Eller for 2nd
Acciairi for 4th
Rudwedel for 5th
Nieto for a 5th
Carter for a 7th for

Hoglander-Crosby-Rust
Mercer-Malkin-Lekerimaki
Tolvanen-Yager-Sprong
DOC-Poulin-Puustinen

POJ-Letang
Bahl-EK
Ludvig-Smith

Nedelkovich-Blomqvist

Head Coach: Gerard Gallant
Assistant Coach: Bruce Boudreau (if he would)
Assistant Coach: Matt Cullen
Assistant Coach: Trevor Daley

Only thing there might be getting a 3C but there is a ton of money and assets to do so. Toss money at Stephenson would be my preference.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Wouldn't it be something if Jake took one for the team here, f***s off for a big rental package and a shot at the cup and comes back and signs with us in July!!

Which is why absent some agreement to an extension the return will be good, but not as good as many here hope.

 

[Andy99]

Jake (extended) + Poulin for Hoglander + Lekkerimaki
Pettersson+Jarry for Bahl, Mercer, 1st
Smith for Sprong + 2nd
Rakell for Tolvanen+2nd
Eller for 2nd
Acciairi for 4th
Rudwedel for 5th
Nieto for a 5th
Carter for a 7th for

Hoglander-Crosby-Rust
Mercer-Malkin-Lekerimaki
Tolvanen-Yager-Sprong
DOC-Poulin-Puustinen

POJ-Letang
Bahl-EK
Ludvig-Smith

Nedelkovich-Blomqvist

Head Coach: Gerard Gallant
Assistant Coach: Bruce Boudreau (if he would)
Assistant Coach: Matt Cullen
Assistant Coach: Trevor Daley

Only thing there might be getting a 3C but there is a ton of money and assets to do so. Toss money at Stephenson would be my preference.

Thinking big…I like it…ain’t gonna happen but I like it…my one fear has been that Sullivan gets his mitts on Yager and “fixes” him into the next Jansen Harkins lol…big key for me is Sullivan gone

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

They tried to be more physical after the Cups and it was an adject failure.

I don't think they did. They tried to find ONE goon/enforcer to protect our stars, but they never made a conscious effort to add more physicality that could actually play.

If anything I'd argue we got softer/less physical since those Cup teams, as we lost/moved on from guys like Kunitz and Hornqvist and never replaced what those types of guys brought.

 

[Andy99]

Yeah, sad it’s come to this…

 

[JRS91]

It's baffling that some people want Karlsson traded.

I think the Karlsson trade was a win for us regardless of how the season turns out. Dubas took a big chance and unloaded a bunch of unwanted cap space for a guy that is a difference maker.

When Karlsson isn't on the PP, it's even worse, which is hard to believe I know. The issue isn't the player, it's the scheme. If you fire Sullivan, I feel like most of the major issues ailing this team, albeit age, will get fixed. I think you're Dubas, you head into the trade deadline with the mentality of only Crosby, Malkin, Rust, Letang and Karlsson are untouchable.

 

[SEALBound]

I think we know of 5 teams in on Guentzel between Vegas, Vancouver, Carolina, Florida and Edmonton, but I wonder what team makes it 6 and what teams may be interested beyond that.

I would think Detroit. But a darkhorse team might actually be LA. They have some young RFAs and could really use a major boost at 1LW. Their RFAs (sans Byfield) are right in line with what I think they'd be looking for: Grundstrom + Kaliyev or Turcotte. I think you could also likely send them Nedelkovich for a 2025 2nd/3rd to boot.

Wouldn't it be something if Jake took one for the team here, f***s off for a big rental package and a shot at the cup and comes back and signs with us in July!!

I don't think we get the big return if Jake is not going to resign. But yeah, that's wouldn't be the worst case scenario. I'd do something like Raty+1st+3rd in line which what Giroux got.

Thinking big…I like it…ain’t gonna happen but I like it…my one fear has been that Sullivan gets his mitts on Yager and “fixes” him into the next Jansen Harkins lol…big key for me is Sullivan gone

I think Sullivan is gone after this season. I can't see it lasting. I just can't.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

It's baffling that some people want Karlsson traded.

I think the Karlsson trade was a win for us regardless of how the season turns out. Dubas took a big chance and unloaded a bunch of unwanted cap space for a guy that is a difference maker.

When Karlsson isn't on the PP, it's even worse, which is hard to believe I know. The issue isn't the player, it's the scheme. If you fire Sullivan, I feel like most of the major issues ailing this team, albeit age, will get fixed. I think you're Dubas, you head into the trade deadline with the mentality of only Crosby, Malkin, Rust, Letang and Karlsson are untouchable.

A person is smart, people are dumb panicky idiots.

 

[SEALBound]

Yeah, sad it’s come to this…

"How to play with Sidney Crosby for 7 years and be a PPG 40-goal scorer 101" Classes start Game 1 2024.