Salary Cap: Pens Salary Thread: Pens Ownership "Dubas... that Coca-Cola machine. I want you to shoot the lock off it. There may be some waiver players in there."

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ChaosAgent

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May 8, 2018
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Oh, if the NHL were not a garage league led by idiots they could absolutely capitalize on it

It's why NFL/NBA... MLB do better

Hockey is objectively the better sport... Marketed by pea brained idiots

I have to be honest with you. Hockey is not a better sport. At least not the NHL product, and certainly not on TV.

Even Canadians are growing more interested in other sports. It isn't marketing. It's a league where everyone just moves at a million mph and is more skilled than ever but has moved to a heavily defensive, risk-averse equilibrium. Plus it's hard and expensive to take it up and play.
 
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Karl Prime

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Feb 13, 2017
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Some of the people complaining were giving Dubas props after the EK deal and shipping out a lot of Hextall’s dead weight. We wound up stuck with the guys who have NMC’s. Again, thanks to Hextall.

Then I firmly believe he brought in guys sully wanted. It was said as much when we signed Eller. You can see in the usage of certain players as well.

I honestly think Dubas was giving sully a legit shot with players he wanted. It’s failed and we need to move on and let Dubas pick his own coach instead of just glazing sully because he’s a Boston guy and we’re owned by a Boston company.

As someone who has watched every game this year, someone who's been watching Sullivan hockey for the first time consistently, it's frustrating. I don't think he's a bad coach, but I don't think he's the right coach for this team. The core for his whole tenure has been Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Guentzel, and Rust. But Dubas acquired Karlsson, one of the best offensive players in the league, and Sullivan didn't adjust at all. It's as if Sullivan thinks if Erik was given the reigns to the offense then the defense would suffer, but EK has shown in his career (11-12, 16-17) that he can be dominant offensively without sacrificing defensively. Hell, even last year, he was pretty much an even player until Meier was traded, and that was on a team with far less skill and depth on it, not to mention terrible goaltending.

As I've said before, EK is actually having a pretty good all-round season, but his offensive numbers will make people think he's having an awful year. In reality, he's performing at 5v5 about what you would expect from a player whose offensive contributions are limited to stretch breakout passes and shots for tips. They rarely find him when he does get low in the o-zone because they aren't looking for him. And most frustratingly of all, one of the best puck rushers ever doesn't skate the puck up ice. With his skating and vision, he would be creating so many chances for Sid, Geno, Jake, Rust, Rakell, and Smith, and chances are Rakell and Smith wouldn't be having terrible goal scoring seasons.

I highly doubt any of Sid, Geno, EK, Letang, or Rust are going anywhere next year, so if Dubas does come to the decision to fire Sully (please), he has to bring in a guy that knows how to utilize one of the best offensive D ever at 5v5. The funny thing is that this season, his points have come "easier" than they did last year, when he was making a ton of amazing passes and scoring great goals. This year most of his assists have been simple passes or tip-ins, with the exception of a few nice slap-passes. Sid and EK have shown good chemistry, but it feels like we have only seen 40% of what they are capable of together (the slap-pass tip-ins, mainly).

And for the love of all things holy, find a coach who knows how to generate offense that doesn't come by a dump and forecheck. Yes, the Pens forecheck is pretty good but they spend so much time battling along the boards for pucks instead of working towards the middle of the ice.
 
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Ryder71

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Nov 24, 2017
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He took over a team that was 1 point out of the playoffs last year and turned them into a bottom 10 team and dropping.

There's nothing that says he has any f***ing idea of what he's doing.
Really? So they missed the playoffs last season and their core got a year older and are all 36 or older and you're wondering why they're falling out of contention? They weren't very good to begin with. When do you start blaming the players? Or more importantly understand this core is on their last legs? Dubas can't turn back time, that's not on him and for you to blame him is absurd! Look at CHI, DET, EDM of the '80s, NYI's early 80s LA, COL (of the 90's), every one of them dropped off! It's hockey! This core was done years ago. It's amazing they didn't fall off before 2021.
 

Ryder71

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Nov 24, 2017
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He didn't even ask. That's not putting it to bed, that's taking it off the table.
Well, Rust just recently signed that deal, but with Hextall. Rust has a full NMC. He's been here for eight years so he clearly wants to stay. His cap hit and term are onerous, he's in his 30's. So, why would another team even want him? And what kind of return could we even get? How many more reasons do you need to realize it's not only not gonna happen, it really isn't a good option. And you're an ''educator''?
 

HandshakeLine

A real jerk thing
Nov 9, 2005
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Well, Rust just recently signed that deal, but with Hextall. Rust has a full NMC. He's been here for eight years so he clearly wants to stay. His cap hit and term are onerous, he's in his 30's. So, why would another team even want him? And what kind of return could we even get? How many more reasons do you need to realize it's not only not gonna happen, it really isn't a good option. And you're an ''educator''?
Because he's a proven commodity, 2x Cup Winner, signed at a good hit and long term? I mean, just admit you like Rust, Ryder and that he's your exception to your "get younger, get picks" mantra.

Also, lol, you had to google how to spell "educator".
 
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Ryder71

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Nov 24, 2017
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Because he's a proven commodity, 2x Cup Winner, signed at a good hit and long term? I mean, just admit you like Rust, Ryder and that he's your exception to your "get younger, get picks" mantra.
He has a full NMC, so trading him was never on the table. I'm not sure why you can't understand it, but clearly you can't.

And for the record I couldn't care less if he's here or not, I just know it won't happen unless Rust wants to leave. It's that simple.
 

HandshakeLine

A real jerk thing
Nov 9, 2005
49,130
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Praha, CZ
He has a full NMC, so trading him was never on the table. I'm not sure why you can't understand it, but clearly you can't.

And for the record I couldn't care less if he's here or not, I just know it won't happen unless Rust wants to leave. It's that simple.
You know how you trade someone with an NMC? You ask them to waive. Happens all the time. :dunno:

But you're sundowning, maybe this is too much for you. As the night nurse for some pudding and Matlock.
 

Ryder71

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Nov 24, 2017
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You know how you trade someone with an NMC? You ask them to waive. Happens all the time. :dunno:

But you're sundowning, maybe this is too much for you. As the night nurse for some pudding and Matlock.
The return would be minimal with the NMC distinction. And if we're being honest, he has more value here than elsewhere. So again, it really wouldn't make any sense to ask. If you were it'd likely be in the summer regardless.

They're also hell bent on signing Sid. Not my preference but... I'm sure that weighs into these decisions. Particularly if he's already gonna lose Jake.
 

Le Magnifique 66

Let's Go Pens
Jun 9, 2006
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They will pretend like this road trip never happened, call off activities today and hope they beat the Jackets tomorrow so it eases off the pressure surrounding the team
 
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pistolpete11

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Apr 27, 2013
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Not asking Rust to waive his NTC is just another sign their target is to retool, not rebuild.

I know Jarry, Rakell, and even Petts have been in the trade rumors, but I'll be pretty surprised if any of them are actually traded. I think Jake and Ned will be traded because they are UFA, Smith because he doesn't fit here/doesn't want to be here, and maybe Eller because even though he's been good, he'll be a 35 year old 3C next year.
 
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brewski420

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Sep 29, 2009
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What is it with Pittsburgh sports team coaches, particularly the Pens and the Steelers? It is like they have tenure built into their contracts.
 
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Sike Mullivan

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Nov 15, 2010
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I understand he has a NTC, but I dont see the harm in saying "Rusty, the last 2 years havent gone to plan and we are looking to make changes. I know you have a movement clause, but there's been a lot of interest in your services from ____ and ____. Would you be interested in potential move? Talk it over with your family and ill be in touch Wednesday." Even if he says no, which is 100% his right, I still think you leave no stone unturned at this point. If he says yes, I think hes perfect to make a Toffoli/Sharangovich type deal.
 
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AjaxTelamon

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Jul 8, 2011
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I am still laughing @ the fact that the organization preemptively told Rust they won't trade him.
It's terrible malpractice not to even explore a Rust deal. If someone was willing to take that contract, then you have to look into it. Rust seems to have two modes, one in which he scores at a reasonable place but plays a strictly perimeter game and is entirely ineffectual down the stretch and in the post season like last year. The 2nd is this year, where he plays a little more in the dirty areas, but is constantly hurt.

I expect as he ages we'll probably see the worst of both worlds. I guess Dubas just doesn't want to piss off Sid at this point by trading both his wingers. If you have to pick one, you keep Jake all day. Though I do expect any offers to take Rust included an anchor contract coming back and a middling pick.
 

OnMyOwn

Worlds Apart
Sep 7, 2005
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Predictions…

Jake - 1st, 2nd, mid prospect and a cap dump back.
Reilly Smith - 4th rounder. We retain a mil
Lars Eller - 3rd
Ned - 4th

Media talks about how good Dubas is.
What are your expectations/values for those exact pieces?
 

OnMyOwn

Worlds Apart
Sep 7, 2005
19,159
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What do you mean? The prospect and cap dump in the Guentzel trade?

Nothing of consequence. I have no faith in Dubas right now.

Hopefully he surprises me.
No I mean if it wasn’t Dubas. What do you think is reasonable for those pieces?
 
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Andy99

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Jun 26, 2017
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Not asking Rust to waive his NTC is just another sign their target is to retool, not rebuild.

I know Jarry, Rakell, and even Petts have been in the trade rumors, but I'll be pretty surprised if any of them are actually traded. I think Jake and Ned will be traded because they are UFA, Smith because he doesn't fit here/doesn't want to be here, and maybe Eller because even though he's been good, he'll be a 35 year old 3C next year.
Madden today says he thinks they’re trying to re-sign Jake and that Jake has come down from his ask (trying to resign because of Sid)…

Said he’s heard they’ve gotten really good offers for Petts and he may be traded instead lol

 
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