Salary Cap: Pens Salary Thread: Pens Ownership "Dubas... that Coca-Cola machine. I want you to shoot the lock off it. There may be some waiver players in there."

[Malkinstheman]

I had seen someone say that Carolina wants a forward but isnt looking at rentals. Smith probably makes more sense for them.

 

[Pancakes]

I think it's very unlikely they tear down to that level.

It's probably just going to be Guentzel, Smith and Nedjelkovic moved.

I just wonder wtf the plan is at this point. If you move Jake out how is this possibly a playoff team next year?

Like I'm not against it or anything but it's just such a weird situation to be in where Dubas is gonna tear it down a little bit but not that much. And will keep Sully.

And the Pens will try (futilely) to make the playoffs next year.

 

[Malkinstheman]

That's my expectation too, but I could see Eller, Accari, Nieto, and Ruhwedel garnering interest. They are hardly core guys, but if they went too it would signal a pretty significant shift.

Im hoping Eller is gone. Hes been good this season but the less 32+ bottom-6 guys we have. the better

 

[Andy99]

I just wonder wtf the plan is at this point. If you move Jake out how is this possibly a playoff team next year?

Like I'm not against it or anything but it's just such a weird situation to be in where Dubas is gonna tear it down a little bit but not that much. And will keep Sully.

And the Pens will try (futilely) to make the playoffs next year.

They won’t be trying to make the playoffs next season…not really…just lip service…just get some young guys in here and have them trained by the core seems to be the plan lol…oh and developed by our great coach who is really great at developing young players, according to our GM lol

 

[Ryder71]

My gut tells me that unless Dubas gets a real good return for Jake he won’t be trading him…everything I’m hearing makes it sound like they’re not just going to trade him to get something for a departing asset…idk honestly feeling like he gets re-signed at this point…

Then again, if Kan Dingerski is saying Jake is staying, then I must be wrong lol…

Predicting Penguins Trade Deadline; Devils Could Jump Pens

CALGARY, Alberta — The NHL trade deadline is just one week away, and perhaps it’s fitting the Pittsburgh Penguins are in Calgary because this is the city that could flip the balance of power in the Metro Division and the Eastern Conference wild-card race. The Calgary Flames traded sandpaper...

pittsburghhockeynow.com

Right, but he WILL get a good return, so no problem.

 

[Ryder71]

I'd really prefer to deal with the Canucks. I'm really liking LEKK. They are in a win now mode, JR is liberal with what he'll offer and Jake would seemingly go to a team where there's many familiar faces. Sure hope we deal with them.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That's my expectation too, but I could see Eller, Accari, Nieto, and Ruhwedel garnering interest. They are hardly core guys, but if they went too it would signal a pretty significant shift.

Oh I was just referring to important players getting moved. There could be more than that, I just don't think there will be any more important players

I just wonder wtf the plan is at this point. If you move Jake out how is this possibly a playoff team next year?

Like I'm not against it or anything but it's just such a weird situation to be in where Dubas is gonna tear it down a little bit but not that much. And will keep Sully.

And the Pens will try (futilely) to make the playoffs next year.

I think people need to consider what Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Karlsson want in this situation as well. I'd much rather them at least try to be moderately competitive while selling off players than just nuking the team at once and telling the core to pound sand.

A gradual sell-off where the team focuses on getting younger, but still tries to remain competitive enough to give the team at least a chance at making the playoffs, seems like a good strategy to follow. Selling off UFAs or valuable players near the end of their deals and filling their spots with young guys and UFAs seems like a good way to do that, so I'm hoping that's what Dubas tries to do.

 

[BusinessGoose]

They could ASK Rust if he would be amenable to a trade on the table.... It would still be "honoring" a NTC...

 

[Empoleon8771]

 

[Andy99]

Yeah he should..smart business…but I don’t think he’s gonna get any decent prospects…that’s the problem…teams who don’t have great prospect bases are in this thing and they’re not gonna give up their best prospect…

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah he should..smart business…but I don’t think he’s gonna get any decent prospects…that’s the problem…teams who don’t have great prospect bases are in this thing and they’re not gonna give up their best prospect…

I absolutely believe you could get Brisson and Dorofeyev for Guentzel from Vegas. Without a doubt.

That would actually be a pretty sweet base for a return. Brisson slides into Guentzel's old role with Crosby and Dorofeyev slides into Smith's old role with Malkin.

 

[Andy99]

I absolutely believe you could get Brisson and Dorofeyev for Guentzel from Vegas. Without a doubt.

That would actually be a pretty sweet base for a return. Brisson slides into Guentzel's old role with Crosby and Dorofeyev slides into Smith's old role with Malkin.

Maybe but Vegas’ prospects aren’t great though…would you rather have Brisson or Jarvis or Mercer? Carolina has some pretty good prospects… Vegas and EDM do not

 

[Empoleon8771]

Maybe but Vegas’ prospects aren’t great though…would you rather have Brisson or Jarvis or Mercer? Carolina has some pretty good prospects… Vegas and EDM do not

Jarvis is a 3rd year pro that is pacing for like 65 points this year. You're not pulling off a piece like that for a rental Guentzel.

 

[Andy99]

Jarvis is a 3rd year pro that is pacing for like 65 points this year. You're not pulling off a piece like that for a rental Guentzel.

Then let Jake’s agent talk to teams about an extension…Dubas is between rock and a hard place if the offers for Jake aren’t good enough…this is a 40 goal scorer…they shouldn’t be getting back someone’s third line prospect…

 

[Ryder71]

Yeah he should..smart business…but I don’t think he’s gonna get any decent prospects…that’s the problem…teams who don’t have great prospect bases are in this thing and they’re not gonna give up their best prospect…

If you get two prospects though, you're likely suffering in quality. I'd prefer to get a blue chipper and draft pick as well as cap dump and retain to get the best return. For example and in a general sense I don't want someone's 4th and 6th best prospect when I can get their best and a draft pick. I'd go half and half Unless both players sincerely look like it'd be too hard to pass up.

 

[SEALBound]

Send them Graves for free as a show of good faith.

Honestly, at this point, I'm just wanting a return that is not disappointing. I don't want to open HFB and see Jake @50% for a 26 2nd, 25 4th, and a 2020 5th round draftee with 4pts in the AHL.

If they sell, they sell. I just want a good value return. I'm betting we don't get a A+ guy like Lekkerimaki but I would hope we get a "play now" guy.

Jake for Lekkerimaki
Smith+Poulin for Brisson+3rd
Jarry for Holtz + 1st

I think these are slightly low value but I would love a scoop like this as it completely remakes our roster for next year.

Raks-Sid-Rust
DOC-Malkin-Lekkerimaki
Brisson-Yager-Holtz
Nieto-Eller-Acciari

Noice.

I don't think Pettersson's new deal is bad for a potential Jake trade. If anything, now the Canucks know for sure what their cap structure is moving forward re: Pettersson, so they'll have a general understanding of how Jake would fit in long term. /shrug

I think it'll be more about whether Dubas wants to trade Jake than whether or not JR wants to pay the price for Jake tbh.

Especially if they send back salary to us like Mikheyev.

If Jake takes $8mil and they send us Mikheyev for $4.75, they have the room to make that work.

 

[Pancakes]

I'm not sure I love this because I doubt most teams that would trade for Jake have two good prospects to give.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm not sure I love this because I doubt most teams that would trade for Jake have two good prospects to give.

I think Vegas absolutely does. Brisson and Dorofeyev as the main pieces back for Guentzel looks super appealing to me. Even if it's just those two and a 2nd, I'm totally happy with that deal.

Brisson slides onto Crosby's wing to make the top line Brisson-Crosby-Rust, while Dorofeyev slides onto Malkin's wing and makes the 2nd line Dorofeyev-Malkin-Rakell.

 

[Pancakes]

I think Vegas absolutely does. Brisson and Dorofeyev as the main pieces back for Guentzel looks super appealing to me. Even if it's just those two and a 2nd, I'm totally happy with that deal.

Brisson slides onto Crosby's wing to make the top line Brisson-Crosby-Rust, while Dorofeyev slides onto Malkin's wing and makes the 2nd line Dorofeyev-Malkin-Rakell.

I'll see what deal we end up getting I guess but I'm not in love with the idea as of right now. Think it'd be easier to work a deal around 1st + top prospect.

This also reeks of the Pens trying to contend still in the next few years and it's like Dubas...give that shit up bro. Geno is already aging rapidly and while Sid seems to be battling father time how much longer can he keep this up? As good as Sid has been this year it still hasn't been enough to get us a playoff spot and I doubt very much he maintains the same level next year when he's turning 38.

Pens need to give this dream of contending up. If the core wants to stay and shepherd the next players through so be it but there shouldn't be any realistic expectations of contending. Just don't see it happening. Certainly not with Sully at the helm.

But this org will continue to delude itself until Sid retires and the bottom comes.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'll see what deal we end up getting I guess but I'm not in love with the idea as of right now. Think it'd be easier to work a deal around 1st + top prospect.

This also reeks of the Pens trying to contend still in the next few years and it's like Dubas...give that shit up bro. Geno is already aging rapidly and while Sid seems to be battling father time how much longer can he keep this up? As good as Sid has been this year it still hasn't been enough to get us a playoff spot and I doubt very much he maintains the same level next year when he's turning 38.

Pens need to give this dream of contending up. If the core wants to stay and shepherd the next players through so be it but there shouldn't be any realistic expectations of contending. Just don't see it happening. Certainly not with Sully at the helm.

But this org will continue to delude itself until Sid retires and the bottom comes.

I don't have any issue with targeting good 20-22 year old prospects rather than future 1sts. You're likely not getting any worse of prospects by doing that, at least not significantly, and you know how those guys have developed in juniors and in the minors.

If the choice was Brisson, Dorofeyev and a 2nd or 2 1sts and a 2nd, I'd much rather have the first.

 

[Pancakes]

I don't have any issue with targeting good 20-22 year old prospects rather than future 1sts. You're likely not getting any worse of prospects by doing that, at least not significantly, and you know how those guys have developed in juniors and in the minors.

If the choice was Brisson, Dorofeyev and a 2nd or 2 1sts and a 2nd, I'd much rather have the first.

I just want them to take the best deal, whatever that may be. I hope they aren't limiting themselves by asking for two prospects instead of picks.

And like I said it reeks of them thinking they can contend again soon or do a fast rebuild or whatever. Ain't happening.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I just want them to take the best deal, whatever that may be. I hope they aren't limiting themselves by asking for two prospects instead of picks.

And like I said it reeks of them thinking they can contend again soon or do a fast rebuild or whatever. Ain't happening.

But as long as they have the big guns, they owe this to them. They can realize they need to get younger and rebuild/retool while not only targeting picks and telling the core to screw themselves.

I'd substantially rather focus on prospects that can have an impact immediately or in the next year or two over a 1st that won't be ready for 4 or more years. It's not even a question. I know that this team needs to rebuild and get younger, but they still have Crosby and company around for the next few years.

 

[Pancakes]

But as long as they have the big guns, they owe this to them. They can realize they need to get younger and rebuild/retool while not only targeting picks and telling the core to screw themselves.

I'd substantially rather focus on prospects that can have an impact immediately or in the next year or two over a 1st that won't be ready for 4 or more years. It's not even a question. I know that this team needs to rebuild and get younger, but they still have Crosby and company around for the next few years.

I think they can try to get younger and start stocking the farm while still using the cap space they generate from moving guys out to try and field a competitive team.

They probably can't contend no matter what they do and the best they can hope for is to make the playoffs a couple more times before Sid retires (and I'm skeptical they'll even be able to do that). I mean as long as EK/Sid/Malkin/Letang are here they should have a theoretical chance at a playoff spot unless Sid's play falls off a cliff. And given Sid's age, that might be coming sooner than we'd like to imagine.

Regardless, I hope they don't take a weaker deal than they could have gotten just because they insist on getting short term fixes.

But I'll judge the deal when I see it I guess.

 

[SomeDude]

So who are the modern day equivalent of Kris Beech and Michal Sivek?

 

[Empoleon8771]

After Gurgs gave the suggestion on the main board, I'd change my target with Vegas to Brisson and Korczak. Korczak is a RD that will hopefully guarantee they won't have to see a scrub like Ruhwedel playing for them again.

But for real, it's beneficial to get a legit 3rd pair RD with Letang and Karlsson not being particularly durable or young. If Sullivan would run with it, I think POJ and Korczak would complement each other well as the 3rd pair.