Salary Cap: Pens Salary Thread: Pens Ownership "Dubas... that Coca-Cola machine. I want you to shoot the lock off it. There may be some waiver players in there."

[Gurglesons]

I'm honestly unsure if I'd expect the Penguins to be worse next year than this year. Sure, logically you can say "they'll be a year older" and that makes sense, but this team also has a lot of cap space and maneuverability this off-season that they didn't have in the past. There's no reason that this team has to definitely be worse next year. Now is that a gamble worth making? Glad I'm not making the call on that.

Assuming they trade Smith and re-sign their RFAs for a reasonable price, they'd likely be sitting with about $20 million in cap space with this base:

Rakell-Crosby-Rust
XXXX-Malkin-XXXX
O'Connor-XXXX-Bemstrom/Puustinen
Nieto-Eller-Acciari
Puustinen/Bemstrom

Graves-Letang
Pettersson-Karlsson
XXXX-XXXX
Ludvig

Jarry-Blomqvist

Like Dubas should be able to make something good out of this base with that amount of money available. Between a $4-$5 million rise in cap, getting out of Carter's deal and actually having some young guys (mainly O'Connor, Bemstrom and Puustinen) capable of filling bottom-6 roles, Dubas should be able to accomplish something.

Yeah, remember when Dubas had 20 million dollars last time and how he improved this team?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Look at the trend line over the last 3 years. Yeah on paper you can say whatever, but it's gone from playoffs to one point out to 4-5 points out. And yes,them being older has a lot to do with it.

The bottom-6 has been dogshit over this trendline as well. This team is also a good powerplay and/or a good bottom-6 away from being a playoff team.

Now the question worth asking is do you trust Dubas to actually fix those issues? If not, you obviously give up the 2024 pick instead.

Yeah, remember when Dubas had 20 million dollars last time and how he improved this team?

Yeah and if he does a shitty job, he deserves to be roasted for it.

 

[ChaosAgent]

The bottom-6 has been dogshit over this trendline as well. This team is also a good powerplay and/or a good bottom-6 away from being a playoff team.

Now the question worth asking is do you trust Dubas to actually fix those issues? If not, you obviously give up the 2024 pick instead.



Yeah and if he does a shitty job, he deserves to be roasted for it.

Yes, I don't expect our Powerplay to improve when our options at PPQB are Karlsson and Letang. I also think the bottom 6 will continue to suck.

Give SJS this year's pick, please Kyle

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah and if he does a shitty job, he deserves to be roasted for it.

I don't think the question is "if" he does a shitty job.

This year has ruined any expectation I have for Dubas pulling us out of a rebuild. He's Hextall 2.0. Arguably worse.

Just going through the motions to get to the rebuild.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yes, I don't expect our Powerplay to improve when our options at PPQB are Karlsson and Letang. I also think the bottom 6 will continue to suck.

Give SJS this year's pick, please Kyle

Yeah and I think that's valid. My point was that I just don't think it's an absolute guarantee they're worse next year than this year, if Dubas actually does a good job with the cap space they have available.

It would just suck to give up like the 8th overall this year only to end up picking around 18th next year, after they bounced back a bit and made the playoffs again.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Yeah and I think that's valid. My point was that I just don't think it's an absolute guarantee they're worse next year than this year, if Dubas actually does a good job with the cap space they have available.

It would just suck to give up like the 8th overall this year only to end up picking around 18th next year, after they bounced back a bit and made the playoffs again.

It would be even more annoying if we kept the 11th overall to give up the 4th overall in 2025. This team could really bottom out.

 

[BusinessGoose]

It would be even more annoying if we kept the 11th overall to give up the 4th overall in 2025. This team could really bottom out.

100%

You give SJS the pick this year unless it's top 5

Cause it isn't going to be better next year, unless dubas turns a ton of tricks over the next week

 

[Gurglesons]

It would be even more annoying if we kept the 11th overall to give up the 4th overall in 2025. This team could really bottom out.

Annoying and predictable.

 

[chethejet]

Dubas has some misses. Acciari has not been what I expected but injuries are an issue. I had much higher hopes for Graves. Maybe he just is not a fit for Sullivan system but he wasn't bad in NJ. Eller great add and Smith just doesn't want to be here. Move Smith, and use the cap this off season to address LW, RD and let FSG move Sullivan to president of liverpool soccer club. If they move Jake, then adding a bigger LW and maybe moving DOC up makes sense.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I'm honestly unsure if I'd expect the Penguins to be worse next year than this year. Sure, logically you can say "they'll be a year older" and that makes sense, but this team also has a lot of cap space and maneuverability this off-season that they didn't have in the past. There's no reason that this team has to definitely be worse next year. Now is that a gamble worth making? Glad I'm not making the call on that.

Assuming they trade Smith and re-sign their RFAs for a reasonable price, they'd likely be sitting with about $20 million in cap space with this base:

Rakell-Crosby-Rust
XXXX-Malkin-XXXX
O'Connor-XXXX-Bemstrom/Puustinen
Nieto-Eller-Acciari
Puustinen/Bemstrom

Graves-Letang
Pettersson-Karlsson
XXXX-XXXX
Ludvig

Jarry-Blomqvist

Like Dubas should be able to make something good out of this base with that amount of money available. Between a $4-$5 million rise in cap, getting out of Carter's deal and actually having some young guys (mainly O'Connor, Bemstrom and Puustinen) capable of filling bottom-6 roles, Dubas should be able to accomplish something.

Here's my guess with what will transpire from a macro standpoint:

- I think Jake and Smith are gone at the TDL
- I believe Dubas either had a) a directive he couldn't touch the coaching staff or b) he internally believes in giving Sully a year to see how he operates
- This offseason Dubas will take the approach of "we did it your (Sully) way in terms of roster construction, now we're doing it MY way". So think we'll see more of Dubas' fingerprints in terms of FA's/moves vs. Sully's

 

[SEALBound]

I'm honestly unsure if I'd expect the Penguins to be worse next year than this year. Sure, logically you can say "they'll be a year older" and that makes sense, but this team also has a lot of cap space and maneuverability this off-season that they didn't have in the past. There's no reason that this team has to definitely be worse next year. Now is that a gamble worth making? Glad I'm not making the call on that.

Assuming they trade Smith and re-sign their RFAs for a reasonable price, they'd likely be sitting with about $20 million in cap space with this base:

Rakell-Crosby-Rust
XXXX-Malkin-XXXX
O'Connor-XXXX-Bemstrom/Puustinen
Nieto-Eller-Acciari
Puustinen/Bemstrom

Graves-Letang
Pettersson-Karlsson
XXXX-XXXX
Ludvig

Jarry-Blomqvist

Like Dubas should be able to make something good out of this base with that amount of money available. Between a $4-$5 million rise in cap, getting out of Carter's deal and actually having some young guys (mainly O'Connor, Bemstrom and Puustinen) capable of filling bottom-6 roles, Dubas should be able to accomplish something.

And that doesn't include anything we might be getting back for Smith and Guentzel. I anticipate at least one roster player from either trade. Then who knows what prospects might be making it. If you get Lekkerimaki from Vancouver along with Yager and our 1st round pick from this year, who knows what the roster could look like.

I don't think the question is "if" he does a shitty job.

This year has ruined any expectation I have for Dubas pulling us out of a rebuild. He's Hextall 2.0. Arguably worse.

Just going through the motions to get to the rebuild.

I'd like to know how much of it was Dubas and how much was Sullivan's influence. The 2 scoring and 2 defensive lines structure was absolutely beyond moronic to build around but I'm just not sure how those discussions shook out. If Dubas tells Sullivan they are abandoning that, using Emp's lineup as the base, they could easily retool the roster a bit. I think the key is finding a decent 3C which is always been elusive for us since 2018. Be great to find the next Bonino or get back a McCann in a trade. Something to boost the third line offensively. Then you can add a bottom 6 winger to help with that too.

It would be even more annoying if we kept the 11th overall to give up the 4th overall in 2025. This team could really bottom out.

I would not bet on that. I think with Sid at the level he is still at and even average goaltending, not a chance to do they finish bottom 5. Look at the bottom 5 teams now...they have atrocious rosters compared to us.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I'm assuming the Pens can or have to wait til after the draft lottery to decide which to send SJ's way, right?

 

[BusinessGoose]

I would not bet on that. I think with Sid at the level he is still at and even average goaltending, not a chance to do they finish bottom 5. Look at the bottom 5 teams now...they have atrocious rosters compared to us.

Well that's the thing, our roster is routinely playing below potential

So it makes it really damn hard to plan, because you don't know when they'll stop being one of the worst teams and be good (well, at least not trash)

If they sell, now we gotta hope prospects or players gel better than what we send out

And if they don't sell this year, you gotta hope the roster stops f***ing up

It's a gamble. I just think, you punt the pick. If it was super deep with 15 NHL ready players in the draft, no, but the pens aren't gonna do anything with a 12th or 8th pick this year. Just send it now

I'm assuming the Pens can or have to wait til after the draft lottery to decide which to send SJ's way, right?

Pretty sure it happens shortly before, certainly after the regular season

 

[SEALBound]

Dubas has some misses. Acciari has not been what I expected but injuries are an issue. I had much higher hopes for Graves. Maybe he just is not a fit for Sullivan system but he wasn't bad in NJ. Eller great add and Smith just doesn't want to be here. Move Smith, and use the cap this off season to address LW, RD and let FSG move Sullivan to president of liverpool soccer club. If they move Jake, then adding a bigger LW and maybe moving DOC up makes sense.

The Jarry contract was iffy, Graves was a miss, and Acciari and Nieto are nowhere near the impact players we need them to be. Eller and Neds were good additions and Smith was a very good trade at the time but Smith has yet to put forth the effort. Hard to fault Dubas there.

This is where I hope Dubas has a little JR in him where he's willing to wheel and deal to rectify some mistakes. I think there's a good opportunity to send Nieto and Acciari out at the deadline and I have to wonder if there are some creative solutions for Graves.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

wonder if the Pens pick up any UDFAs

 

[SEALBound]

Well that's the thing, our roster is routinely playing below potential

So it makes it really damn hard to plan, because you don't know when they'll stop being one of the worst teams and be good (well, at least not trash)

If they sell, now we gotta hope prospects or players gel better than what we send out

And if they don't sell this year, you gotta hope the roster stops f***ing up

It's a gamble. I just think, you punt the pick. If it was super deep with 15 NHL ready players in the draft, no, but the pens aren't gonna do anything with a 12th or 8th pick this year. Just send it now


Pretty sure it happens shortly before, certainly after the regular season

I also think it depends on what you are getting in return for Smith and Guentzel. Again, if it's Lekkerimaki + 2025 1st (or something equivalent to this) then I'm not sure I care. Yeah, the 1st will be late most likely but if you're countering that with a high level prospect, then I'm not sure it matters all that much.

 

[Gurglesons]

My favorite thing I saw recently is someone insinuating "if only Ron Hextall was still a GM in the league, someone would be dumb enough to take the Ryan Graves contract".

As if.. our own GM didn't sign the Ryan Graves contract...

 

[Empoleon8771]

Another aspect to consider: Jarry tends to alternate between strong years and poor years over his career, so they're likely due for Jarry having a poor year next year. If nothing else changes with this team outside of Jarry getting worse, I think they're firmly a bottom-10 team next year.

I think what I do with the pick depends largely on where the pick lands. If it's top-5 this year, I give up the 1st next year and take my chances. If it's around 8-10, I probably give up this year's pick. If it's between, it's debatable and probably doesn't make that much of a difference. I just hope that they finish with a 1st around 14th overall so this decision doesn't even need to happen.

 

[SEALBound]

Another aspect to consider: Jarry tends to alternate between strong years and poor years over his career, so they're likely due for Jarry having a poor year next year. If nothing else changes with this team outside of Jarry getting worse, I think they're firmly a bottom-10 team next year.

I think what I do with the pick depends largely on where the pick lands. If it's top-5 this year, I give up the 1st next year and take my chances. If it's around 8-10, I probably give up this year's pick. If it's between, it's debatable and probably doesn't make that much of a difference. I just hope that they finish with a 1st around 14th overall so this decision doesn't even need to happen.

I think it more depends on when the 1st we presumably get back in the Guentzel trade is. That said, there are some really good prospects around the #10 slot: Lindstrom, Eiserman, Catton, Buium, Iginla, Greentree. A lot of guys that could help us. If they get a 25 1st, then I say keep the 24st. That said, who knows what the official, legal requirements of the pick are. It may be pretty set in stone - top 10, Pens keep and SJS get 25. 11-32, it goes to SJS. Dubas might not even get the choice.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Maybe I am misreading, but assuming no movement in the lottery aren't the Pens currently 16th in draft order right now?

Tankathon | 2025 NHL Draft Order & Lottery Simulator

2025 NHL Draft order tracker updated after every game. NHL lottery simulator to determine the top overall pick. View traded picks and playoff matchups.

www.tankathon.com

 

[HandshakeLine]

Look at the trend line over the last 3 years. Yeah on paper you can say whatever, but it's gone from playoffs to one point out to 4-5 points out. And yes,them being older has a lot to do with it.

Yeah, I don't think cap space is going to do anything positive with this regime, tbh.

Yeah and if he does a shitty job, he deserves to be roasted for it.

And how would you rate this year's team?

My favorite thing I saw recently is someone insinuating "if only Ron Hextall was still a GM in the league, someone would be dumb enough to take the Ryan Graves contract".

As if.. our own GM didn't sign the Ryan Graves contract...

Now now, he was just the PoHO at the time, he's still learning the ropes for being a GM. Which he had already been.

 

[Pancakes]

Maybe I am misreading, but assuming no movement in the lottery aren't the Pens currently 16th in draft order right now?

Tankathon | 2025 NHL Draft Order & Lottery Simulator

2025 NHL Draft order tracker updated after every game. NHL lottery simulator to determine the top overall pick. View traded picks and playoff matchups.

www.tankathon.com

It's silly to look at draft order right now with all the games in hand the Pens have over everyone else.

By points percentage they're 17th in the league. That's a more likely indicator of where they might pick in the draft.

 

[SEALBound]

Maybe I am misreading, but assuming no movement in the lottery aren't the Pens currently 16th in draft order right now?

Tankathon | 2025 NHL Draft Order & Lottery Simulator

2025 NHL Draft order tracker updated after every game. NHL lottery simulator to determine the top overall pick. View traded picks and playoff matchups.

www.tankathon.com

It's just going based on pt%. Overall by pts, they are 11ov. Who knows where everything shakes out.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

It's silly to look at draft order right now with all the games in hand the Pens have over everyone else.

By points percentage they're 17th in the league. That's a more likely indicator of where they might pick in the draft.

I get that. The situation and draft order is very fluid and a lot of the season remains.

I just was seeing top ten pick assumptions above which confused me.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

I may be wrong, but I think the general vibe going into this draft is it's not a super strong one?