Salary Cap: Pens Salary Thread: Pens Ownership "Dubas... that Coca-Cola machine. I want you to shoot the lock off it. There may be some waiver players in there."

[Turin]

I think the Roenick stuff is probably more true than not. Just a hunch.

I mean how could they not? 2017 was 7 years ago.

 

[chethejet]

Smith moves for a second. Next year is fine. I actually like picking top 10 this year with a chance to move up. The adds from a trade for Jake and selecting a talent in the draft just begins the transition to moving players for picks that begin the additions needed to win down the road. But Pens don't have to stink for years either.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mean how could they not? 2017 was 7 years ago.

Players are usually dumb. Adam Oates they are not.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Pens are actually bottom 10 in the league right now. Meaning, as of now, the 1st we gave up for Karlsson is protected.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Pens are actually bottom 10 in the league right now. Meaning, as of now, the 1st we gave up for Karlsson is protected.

Hopefully we stay there, if Dubas is smart, he starts moving out players ASAP to ensure we stay there

 

[K Fleur]

Two straight years missing the playoffs means the coach gets fired right?

Right!?

 

[HandshakeLine]

Question regarding the 1st we traded SJ. So, say we get a top 10 pick and somehow acquire a late 1st through a trade this year. How soon do we have to announce that SJ gets the pick, and could we be in a situation where, at the draft, we give SJ our late first? Or is it something that has to be satisfied ahead of time?

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

Two straight years missing the playoffs means the coach gets fired right?

Right!?

At least enough to get this goofy f***ing f*** the f*** out of here again never to return and hopefully put on the permanently blacklisted book.

 

[Pens1566]

Question regarding the 1st we traded SJ. So, say we get a top 10 pick and somehow acquire a late 1st through a trade this year. How soon do we have to announce that SJ gets the pick, and could we be in a situation where, at the draft, we give SJ our late first? Or is it something that has to be satisfied ahead of time?

It has to be our pick that goes to SJ IIRC.

 

[Malkinstheman]

Unless this years pick is top-5, im giving the 2024 pick to SJ. If Sid drops off even a little next year, this team is gonna be a basement dweller with Sullivan still here. Under no circumstance do I want to give up an unprotected 2025 1st.

 

[SEALBound]

Carolina and Detroit should have good prospect pools, no?

Detroit yes, Carolina meh.

The young guys that would be sought after in Carolina are having big impacts in their lineup currently - mainly Jarvis and Drury. They have a couple recent 2nd round draft picks that are doing okay in European leagues but nothing that is setting the world on fire. I imagine the focus in Carolina would be Necas. Which also means there needs to be an extension in place and if there's an extension in place, you need more than Necas. I could see Necas+2nd for an extended Jake as being fair for both sides.

Detroit has several quality prospects like Danielson, Berggren, Kasper up front and Wallinder and Edvinsson on the back end. With the exception of Berggren, those are all premium assets Yzerman has collected from the last couple of years in the gutter. The problem is they have Kane, Perron, Sprong, Fischer, and Gostisbehere as UFAs this year so I imagine they will need a couple of those guys to come fill in. So Yzerman will have to decide which is best - expensive Guentzel or Danielson+the cost of a new FA to provide scoring boosts. It's Yzerman so it would be a tough negotiation but at the same time, Larkins, Debrincat, Copp, etc are entering their prime. Their crop of under 25 guys impressive so...do you go for it now or do you wait 2-3 years with your current prospect crop. It's a tough call.

With this many teams interested and Jake being by far the best forward available, I think someone will pay up.

Best case scenario is that teams that miss out on Guentzel panic and then overpay for Smith

Yeah, someone will give up the cap player, a high-end prospect, 1st for him, such as Mikheyev, Lekkerimaki, 1st. But DailyFaceoff put Smith as the #2 trade target, as apparently there are a lot of calls on him, which would be fantastic. I think you're right; whoever loses on Jake will circle immediately to Smith, and who knows, you could get a mini-bidding war for him. I do think he will be a late TDL deal, though. I think he will go to the team that lost out on everyone else and now they are desperate.

It's been so long we've been in this position that dreaming is actually really fun and honestly, possibly more enjoyable than watch the team play. I just keep thinking that if they can pull off something like Mikheyev+Lekkerimaki+1st and then pull of a major surprise by sending Smith out for a 1st - dear lord what a win that would be for us. And, funny enough, I don't think it changes out "playoff" hopes one bit.

Rakell-Sid-Rust
DOC-Malkin-Mikheyev
Bemstrom-Eller-Puustinen
Puljujarvi-Acciari-Carter

is just as good as anything we've iced this year.

 

[SEALBound]

Question regarding the 1st we traded SJ. So, say we get a top 10 pick and somehow acquire a late 1st through a trade this year. How soon do we have to announce that SJ gets the pick, and could we be in a situation where, at the draft, we give SJ our late first? Or is it something that has to be satisfied ahead of time?

I think, technically, it's automatic and I imagine it's written into the conditions of the trade. The official word would come when the playoffs start around the draft lottery as that is when draft order would be officially announced but it's easy to calculate before that.

If we are picking top 10, the 2025 pick goes to them which means, I would highly advocate Dubas getting a 2025 1st as part of the Guentzel deal.

It stinks to give up a 1st but I don't think we can pass on a top 10 pick. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

I'd even be okay with moving up to take Cayden Lindstrom or moving back and taking Tij Iginla.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Unless this years pick is top-5, im giving the 2024 pick to SJ. If Sid drops off even a little next year, this team is gonna be a basement dweller with Sullivan still here. Under no circumstance do I want to give up an unprotected 2025 1st.

This draft is loaded with solid d's, I'm pretty sure we will get a solid forward for example at 8-9 and even10. Eiserman, Catton, Helenius, Iginla will most probably all still on the board

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

I think, technically, it's automatic and I imagine it's written into the conditions of the trade. The official word would come when the playoffs start around the draft lottery as that is when draft order would be officially announced but it's easy to calculate before that.

If we are picking top 10, the 2025 pick goes to them which means, I would highly advocate Dubas getting a 2025 1st as part of the Guentzel deal.

It stinks to give up a 1st but I don't think we can pass on a top 10 pick. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

I'd even be okay with moving up to take Cayden Lindstrom or moving back and taking Tij Iginla.

Sullivan breaks out of his cocoon fully metamorphosed into Sullzyma the Supreme Intelligence and plays the other Iginla on his wrong wing on the 3rd or 4th line.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I think, technically, it's automatic and I imagine it's written into the conditions of the trade. The official word would come when the playoffs start around the draft lottery as that is when draft order would be officially announced but it's easy to calculate before that.

If we are picking top 10, the 2025 pick goes to them which means, I would highly advocate Dubas getting a 2025 1st as part of the Guentzel deal.

It stinks to give up a 1st but I don't think we can pass on a top 10 pick. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

I'd even be okay with moving up to take Cayden Lindstrom or moving back and taking Tij Iginla.

So, in that case, if the 1st is automatically awarded to SJ next year and we finish even worse (say top 4) then they would still get the 2025 pick?

 

[Coastal Kev]

Two straight years missing the playoffs means the coach gets fired right?

Right!?

Take out Sully's first 18 months, I dare anyone to make a case for him keeping his job 2 years ago.

 

[SEALBound]

The only thing I can see hurting Smith's value is the relatively impressive plethora of top 6 capable wing talent available (UFAs to be). Now Smith might be better or worse than some but you have to wonder if the extra year will hurt him.

UFAs to be:
Eberle
Henrique
Zucker
Silfverberg
Tarasenko
Perron
Olofsson
Toffoli
Beauvillier
Roslovic
Pearson
Kapanen
Duclair
Kubalik
Barabanov
Sprong

So, in that case, if the 1st is automatically awarded to SJ next year and we finish even worse (say top 4) then they would still get the 2025 pick?

Nope, if we keep the 2024 1st, the 2025 1st goes to SJS regardless. So yeah, there's risk there for sure. Think back to Ottawa when they gave up the conditional 1st to Colorado for Duchene. They finished bottom 5 and elected to keep their 4OV and took Brady Tkachuk. The next year, their pick went to the Avs and they finished bottom 4 again and the Avs got to pick Byram with the pick. So yeah, there's risk in there for sure. Dubas just has to decide if they are truly going to be better next year. And honestly, I would take that bet because I would easily fire Sullivan and make a few trades if think we're looking bottom 10 again.

I guess, technically, they could see where their pick is - say 10ov and if they aren't infatuated with anyone in and around there, they could send it to SJS but I think SJS would have to accept that change. SJS may be more apt to take our 2025 1st if they don't think we will be doing too well next year.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Two straight years missing the playoffs means the coach gets fired right?

Right!?

In Pittsburgh, any of the pro sports, it's after 8 seasons....

I think, technically, it's automatic and I imagine it's written into the conditions of the trade. The official word would come when the playoffs start around the draft lottery as that is when draft order would be officially announced but it's easy to calculate before that.

If we are picking top 10, the 2025 pick goes to them which means, I would highly advocate Dubas getting a 2025 1st as part of the Guentzel deal.

It stinks to give up a 1st but I don't think we can pass on a top 10 pick. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

I'd even be okay with moving up to take Cayden Lindstrom or moving back and taking Tij Iginla.

Same here, but I don't think any of the teams ahead will want to move down. I think he is gone at 4-5, Montreal will take him

 

[deakka]

i mean. just because we get in to the top 10 we dont HAVE to keep it. we can choose to give it to SJ or not. I thikn at least 8,9,10 should be greatly considered to trade away. odds are 2025 will be an even higher pick than that.

 

[SEALBound]

Same here, but I don't think any of the teams ahead will want to move down. I think he is gone at 4-5, Montreal will take him

Big boys with that skill set don't come around too often so, you may be right. But Sportnets just ranked him at #9, NHL has him at #7.

This may be a draft where teams are thinking of organizational needs rather than BPA because of how close a lot of these guys are. A lot of dmen in that 4-10 range so if a team is thinking forward, Lindstrom would obviously be high on their list. His ranking is all over honestly. I see some as high as 3, another at 14.

But if you look at him in the 7-9 range and he's there and we have 10ov, I could see using our 2nd (or anything we get back from Smith) to move up that 2-3 slots.

Using what I proposed above, adding two prospects in Lekkerimaki and Lindstrom would be a monster off-season for Dubas. You're talking about a future top 6 line in Lindstrom-Yager-Lekkerimaki.

That all said, Iginla has potted 40g in 56gp in the WHL. Kid loves to shoot as does Yager. Doing the opposite and taking an additional 2nd to move back and take Iginla while adding another 2nd wouldn't be something I shake a stick at.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Big boys with that skill set don't come around too often so, you may be right. But Sportnets just ranked him at #9, NHL has him at #7.

This may be a draft where teams are thinking of organizational needs rather than BPA because of how close a lot of these guys are. A lot of dmen in that 4-10 range so if a team is thinking forward, Lindstrom would obviously be high on their list. His ranking is all over honestly. I see some as high as 3, another at 14.

But if you look at him in the 7-9 range and he's there and we have 10ov, I could see using our 2nd (or anything we get back from Smith) to move up that 2-3 slots.

Using what I proposed above, adding two prospects in Lekkerimaki and Lindstrom would be a monster off-season for Dubas. You're talking about a future top 6 line in Lindstrom-Yager-Lekkerimaki.

That all said, Iginla has potted 40g in 56gp in the WHL. Kid loves to shoot as does Yager. Doing the opposite and taking an additional 2nd to move back and take Iginla while adding another 2nd wouldn't be something I shake a stick at.

Who I didn't know they both had him ranked that high, again I doubt he falls but that would be a no brainer for sure. And yes I agree, I think most of the top teams will be drafting for organizational needs and going the D route that is more popular nowadays even when making a trade down the road.

 

[deakka]

Can they finish their morning coffee at the west coast and get to business?
i want moves!

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm honestly unsure if I'd expect the Penguins to be worse next year than this year. Sure, logically you can say "they'll be a year older" and that makes sense, but this team also has a lot of cap space and maneuverability this off-season that they didn't have in the past. There's no reason that this team has to definitely be worse next year. Now is that a gamble worth making? Glad I'm not making the call on that.

Assuming they trade Smith and re-sign their RFAs for a reasonable price, they'd likely be sitting with about $20 million in cap space with this base:

Rakell-Crosby-Rust
XXXX-Malkin-XXXX
O'Connor-XXXX-Bemstrom/Puustinen
Nieto-Eller-Acciari
Puustinen/Bemstrom

Graves-Letang
Pettersson-Karlsson
XXXX-XXXX
Ludvig

Jarry-Blomqvist

Like Dubas should be able to make something good out of this base with that amount of money available. Between a $4-$5 million rise in cap, getting out of Carter's deal and actually having some young guys (mainly O'Connor, Bemstrom and Puustinen) capable of filling bottom-6 roles, Dubas should be able to accomplish something.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I'm honestly unsure if I'd expect the Penguins to be worse next year than this year. Sure, logically you can say "they'll be a year older" and that makes sense, but this team also has a lot of cap space and maneuverability this off-season that they didn't have in the past. There's no reason that this team has to definitely be worse next year. Now is that a gamble worth making? Glad I'm not making the call on that.

Assuming they trade Smith and re-sign their RFAs for a reasonable price, they'd likely be sitting with about $20 million in cap space with this base:

Rakell-Crosby-Rust
XXXX-Malkin-XXXX
O'Connor-XXXX-Bemstrom/Puustinen
Nieto-Eller-Acciari
Puustinen/Bemstrom

Graves-Letang
Pettersson-Karlsson
XXXX-XXXX
Ludvig

Jarry-Blomqvist

Like Dubas should be able to make something good out of this base with that amount of money available. Between a $4-$5 million rise in cap, getting out of Carter's deal and actually having some young guys (mainly O'Connor, Bemstrom and Puustinen) capable of filling bottom-6 roles, Dubas should be able to accomplish something.

Look at the trend line over the last 3 years. Yeah on paper you can say whatever, but it's gone from playoffs to one point out to 4-5 points out. And yes,them being older has a lot to do with it.

 

[Malkinstheman]

For me, any cap space the team has or any changes they make in the summer are moot if Sullivan is still here. Countless roster re-tools and the teams trajectory has been down only since 2018. Sid being good is the only thing keeping the team afloat right now. If he drops off, its over.