Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap Thread: If we score 6 we win, its science!

[Zbynek]

If Chychrun-level is the only move that you could get on board with, then we have vastly different assessments of Dumo's game right now and over the last couple of years.

Okay let me re-word. Brian Dumoulin will not fetch another blue-liner who can replace his minutes.

 

[HandshakeLine]

That list is brutal and I'd definitely rather hold onto a declining Dumoulin.

Why? It's not like he's going to get better and he's already worse than most of the names on that list.

Okay let me re-word. Brian Dumoulin will not fetch another blue-liner who can replace his minutes.

I like making impossible demands too.

The fact of the matter is that a) we over-rely on the top pairing as is and Letang's going to need to have his minutes managed from here on out, b) we don't need Dumolin 2.0 cloned, c) we need someone who can work with Letang, not be the #1 guy on the squad.

I think a lot of the reluctance to trade Dumo isn't really about Dumo, it's about Letang. But we will have to address that soon too because he's here for 6 years.

Also, man why are we playing Letang 25+ minutes a night and the 3rd pairing 12? That shit is stupid.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Brutal list of UFA D. Hot take- Gavrikov is pretty overrated

Soucy would be solid signing/trade.

Could play a Dumo type role and slide down and still be a fit for bottom 4 usage as POJ/Smith/Pickering develop. Can also play the right side if I recall correctly.

Thing is I’m sure a lot of GMs think the same.. I could see him getting 5M on a 3-4 year deal.

IMO, Dumo is a problem, not the problem. He’s been terrible but that pairing goes as Letang goes. Tanger getting back to being in form will cover-up Dumo’s regression/aging a lot more imo.

 

[pistolpete11]

Okay let me re-word. Brian Dumoulin will not fetch another blue-liner who can replace his minutes.

No one said he would. You'd have to probably make separate trades to send Dumo out and bring the other guy in unless the other team was willing to take Dumo to make the cap work. But surely you'd be adding in that situation.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think Letang definitely needs to be better and is very capable of doing so. But I look at his situation similarly to Malkin's except with even more pressure since he's the number one guy on defense. Malkin isn't at the point in his career where he can turn turds into brownies, anymore. Letang can only do so much with THIS Dumo as his partner, IMO.

I get that the team seems a bit oblivious to this. And that the local media has been hammering away at this "fountain of youth" angle with Letang. But I mean... age is undefeated and all that. These guys need some actual help or at least (and this is probably more important) some players who fit and can compliment and support where their games are at, now.

 

[pistolpete11]

I think Letang definitely needs to be better and is very capable of doing so. But I look at his situation similarly to Malkin's except with even more pressure since he's the number one guy on defense. Malkin isn't at the point in his career where he can turn turds into brownies, anymore. Letang can only do so much with THIS Dumo as his partner, IMO.

I get that the team seems a bit oblivious to this. And that the local media has been hammering away at this "fountain of youth" angle with Letang. But I mean... age is undefeated and all that. These guys need some actual help or at least (and this is probably more important) some players who fit and can compliment and support where their games are at, now.

Yeah, Letang is coming off 1 of his best seasons last year. So it's much easier to chalk his play up to a slow start or small sample size or whatever.

Dumo's been trending down for a while now, though. I was hoping Dumo would bounce back with a healthy offseason, but it's gotten worse and will likely continue to get worse as the season takes its toll.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah, Letang is coming off 1 of his best seasons last year. So it's much easier to chalk his play up to a slow start or small sample size or whatever.

Dumo's been trending down for a while now, though. I was hoping Dumo would bounce back with a healthy offseason, but it's gotten worse and will likely continue to get worse as the season takes its toll.

I'm sure there are exceptions but once a player like Dumo starts taking LBIs and it dings his skating the rest really starts to unravel. He doesn't have enough dimensions to his game to compensate.

 

[Pancakes]

I'm sure there are exceptions but once a player like Dumo starts taking LBIs and it dings his skating the rest really starts to unravel. He doesn't have enough dimensions to his game to compensate.

He's still a pretty smart player at least. I think he'd probably be fine if they reduced his minutes and his matchups.

But they won't do that so we're going to keep seeing him struggle unless Letang rights the ship and starts to carry him

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

He's still a pretty smart player at least. I think he'd probably be fine if they reduced his minutes and his matchups.

But they won't do that so we're going to keep seeing him struggle unless Letang rights the ship and starts to carry him

I agree. But this team is putting probably a few too many players in positions where they need to work twice as hard (while being kinda old, now) to achieve passable results.

 

[Pancakes]

I agree. But this team is putting probably a few too many players in positions where they need to work twice as hard (while being kinda old, now) to achieve passable results.

Sure. We'd probably be better off getting younger there and freeing up his cap hit.

I feel like the Pens kept him because of the proven chemistry with Letang but if him and Letang are going to play this badly together...what's the point?

Hextall and Sullivan will be patient with this, even though it's going to drive all of us crazy. But they will probably wait a while before they determine that Dumoulin is washed. What happens after they finally make that determination, I dunno.

 

[SEALBound]

Okay let me re-word. Brian Dumoulin will not fetch another blue-liner who can replace his minutes.

Spot on.

The only way this situation resolves itself without the expenditure of major assets is to have one of Pettersson, POJ, Rutta, or Smith play at a replacement level that allows you to trade Dumo for their replacement. You don't trade Dumo to replace Dumo. You trade Dumo for Pettersson's replacement...who replaced Dumo.

We aren't far enough into the season yet to assess this. I'd advocate for Soucy or someone similar. Likely in a Dumo for assets, assets for Soucy type three way.

To HSL's point though, Sullivan needs to do a better job at managing minutes. You can't run Dumo-Letang 25 min a game. If you really, REALLY have to shelter the bottom pairing THAT much, then we have the wrong bottom pairing. f*** it, waive POJ and bring Smith in. Make a trade for a better bottom pairing guy. Switch the pairing up.

Pettersson-Letang
Rutta-Petry
Dumoulin-Smith/POJ

This is where Sullivan needs to be the bigger man and say "Hey guys, something isn't working. Let's discuss it" rather than "if we just keep doing the same thing, eventually it will work itself out". That's a Dan f***ing Bylsma approach and all it does is ruin seasons.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

This team smells of mothballs and moldy old boxes in storage.

 

[66-30-33]

What would Fowler cost us?

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Why? It's not like he's going to get better and he's already worse than most of the names on that list.


I like making impossible demands too.

The fact of the matter is that a) we over-rely on the top pairing as is and Letang's going to need to have his minutes managed from here on out, b) we don't need Dumolin 2.0 cloned, c) we need someone who can work with Letang, not be the #1 guy on the squad.

I think a lot of the reluctance to trade Dumo isn't really about Dumo, it's about Letang. But we will have to address that soon too because he's here for 6 years.

Also, man why are we playing Letang 25+ minutes a night and the 3rd pairing 12? That shit is stupid.

Yea. Fine you want to manage let's say POJs minutes to 15 because young defensemen fine.

However we have Petry who was a #1 D for Montreal that can take minutes from Letang and we have Rutta on the 3rd pair who's plating really well.

Minutes definitely need to be shared better.

 

[Gurglesons]

Okay let me re-word. Brian Dumoulin will not fetch another blue-liner who can replace his minutes.

Breaking Down the Blackhawks and Penguins' Trevor Daley-Rob Scuderi Trade

At long last, the 2015-16 season finally saw a trade. On Monday, the Pittsburgh Penguins and Chicago Blackhawks pulled the trigger on the first in-season swap of the year, with ...

bleacherreport.com

Scuderi also had term.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yea. Fine you want to manage let's say POJs minutes to 15 because young defensemen fine.

However we have Petry who was a #1 D for Montreal that can take minutes from Letang and we have Rutta on the 3rd pair who's plating really well.

Minutes definitely need to be shared better.

I dunno it seems to me that playing Rust for 23 minutes a night and Rutta for like 12 is great bench management.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Yea. Fine you want to manage let's say POJs minutes to 15 because young defensemen fine.

However we have Petry who was a #1 D for Montreal that can take minutes from Letang and we have Rutta on the 3rd pair who's plating really well.

Minutes definitely need to be shared better.

And it's not just Letang either, Carter could definitely use less minutes, same with Sid and Rust. Geno's minutes have been managed pretty well, I think.

But it's clear that either the coach is playing favorites or the vets are dictating their own ice time to an extent, and I don't think that's a good thing at all. f***ing lmao this team is so dumb and so determined to repeat 1998-1999.

 

[SEALBound]

Breaking Down the Blackhawks and Penguins' Trevor Daley-Rob Scuderi Trade

At long last, the 2015-16 season finally saw a trade. On Monday, the Pittsburgh Penguins and Chicago Blackhawks pulled the trigger on the first in-season swap of the year, with ...

bleacherreport.com

Scuderi also had term.

The man capable of such trades is no longer with us. I don't have faith that Hextall can pull off Scuderi-Daley or Perron-Hagelin-like trades. I could be wrong but there's not much in his trade history that suggests having a knack or willingness to do that.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

And it's not just Letang either, Carter could definitely use less minutes, same with Sid and Rust. Geno's minutes have been managed pretty well, I think.

But it's clear that either the coach is playing favorites or the vets are dictating their own ice time to an extent, and I don't think that's a good thing at all. f***ing lmao this team is so dumb and so determined to repeat 1998-1999.

I do think in winning games Crosby should see a lot less ice time. Though in games we are losing sometimes line 1 needs to be run like a horse and hope we score.

I think one of the biggest reasons I was worried about the Carter trade was having 3 old centre's who should at times have the load off.

It's very tricky especially when the 4th best centre or one could argue 3rd best in Blueger gets injured and at times gets nothing done offensively.

If Poehling continues to look good I'd he open to move Carter to wing or something to help ease his minutes.

 

[Gurglesons]

The man capable of such trades is no longer with us. I don't have faith that Hextall can pull off Scuderi-Daley or Perron-Hagelin-like trades. I could be wrong but there's not much in his trade history that suggests having a knack or willingness to do that.

? lol. what?

Hextall can throw shit at a wall and hope it sticks.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'm gonna need to see Hextall panic for a few years straight and then quit in an amazing old man huff before I can reasonably compare him to XGMJR.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

One thing to keep in mind...

Hextall doesn't make trades before January. Rutherford would get the itch early. Hextall is extremely patient.

In all of his trades as a GM, Hextall has made a total of two deals in October, November, or December.

In November 2016, he traded Petr Straka for a conditional 7th round pick. In October 2017, he acquired Dustin Tokarski for future considerations.

So it would be really out of character for him to do anything notable before January.

 

[Gurglesons]

One thing to keep in mind...

Hextall doesn't make trades before January. Rutherford would get the itch early. Hextall is extremely patient.

In all of his trades as a GM, Hextall has made a total of two deals in October, November, or December.

In November 2016, he traded Petr Straka for a conditional 7th round pick. In October 2017, he acquired Dustin Tokarski for future considerations.

So it would be really out of character for him to do anything notable before January.

Hextall has also never had a contender. He never acquired a player like Rakell previously either.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

My prediction is that Dumo never gets traded and barely even suffers a reduction in role aside from shifts here and there. I wouldn't even be surprised if they try to extend him after they win a few games in a row and the team looks like it's turned whatever corner we keep expecting them to turn.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Hextall has also never had a contender. He never acquired a player like Rakell previously either.

Somewhat true. Certainly his trades early on were to acquire picks, and those deals aren't done in October/November.

But he had a playoff team in 2017-18, didn't make a significant move until February (acquiring Petr Mrazek). And in the weeks leading up to his firing in November 2018, he didn't make any moves.