Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap Thread: If we score 6 we win, its science!

[Gurglesons]

I was thinking the deal would be Kapanen, 2nd and a prospect outside of Poulin, Pickering and POJ. Maybe Hallander lol.

 

[Darren McCord]

He's a UFA.

So? They want to make playoffs. They are the lowest scoring team in the league. he had 15 more goals than kap last year. They aren't trading away goals.

 

[Gurglesons]

So? They want to make playoffs. They are the lowest scoring team in the league. he had 15 more goals than kap last year. They aren't trading away goals.

Okay. They are having an awful start and could easily be out of the playoffs in a few weeks.

 

[Darren McCord]

Okay. They are having an awful start and could easily be out of the playoffs in a few weeks.

The blues just won a cup coming from like last place in Jan. They aren't trading away players in Nov.

Also why are we giving up 2nd + Hallander on top of Kap for a UFA who you are buying high on. Hallander is having a great start in the AHL and just turned 22. I just don't think this deal makes sense for either team.

 

[Gurglesons]

The blues just won a cup coming from like last place in Jan. They aren't trading away players in Nov.

Also why are we giving up 2nd + Hallander on top of Kap for a UFA who you are buying high on. Hallander is having a great start in the AHL and just turned 22. I just don't think this deal makes sense for either team.

Barbashev can play C. That's why I would add it on top.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Why? Because it's more fun to dream about cool new players than to stare idly at the wall, half asleep, as the team inevitably re-signs Jason Zucker and Brian Dumoulin to retirement deals.

 

[Darren McCord]

Barbashev can play C. That's why I would add it on top.

Then I would trade TB not Kap. Sullivan has his centers set. good luck convincing him to play him above carter or TB.

 

[Pancakes]

Why? Because it's more fun to dream about cool new players than to stare idly at the wall, half asleep, as the team inevitably re-signs Jason Zucker and Brian Dumoulin to retirement deals.

I can deal with Zucker but if they re-sign Dumo I'm gonna be at least a little mad. I almost typed furious but after b2b Cups not so long ago I don't know if I have it in me yet to go full Ragamuffin Gunner on this team.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I can deal with Zucker but if they re-sign Dumo I'm gonna be at least a little mad. I almost typed furious but after b2b Cups not so long ago I don't know if I have it in me yet to go full Ragamuffin Gunner on this team.

Embrace the apathy. You'll be free of the burden of expectation and frustration, and it'll just be hockey.

 

[Gurglesons]

Then I would trade TB not Kap. Sullivan has his centers set. good luck convincing him to play him above carter or TB.

Barbashev can also play wing. He brings a lot of what we want to the third line. Blues fans seem good with the deal too.

 

[SEALBound]

Was looking into a few early-season swaps with decent forwards in similar positions to some of us. Some interesting options may be:

Denis Gurianov
Oskar Lindblom
Jesse Puljujarvi
Ivan Barbashev
Maxime Comtois (already discussed)

Looking for a McGinn swap. I've love to do something like McGinn+POJ for Gurianov.

 

[Pancakes]

Embrace the apathy. You'll be free of the burden of expectation and frustration, and it'll just be hockey.

Lol I've tried but I still get a little angry or at least depressed about losses.

I will be fine when the expectation is that we suck. But it's difficult to suck when you expect not to. Being a tank team rules and I will embrace it and religiously follow the draft when that time comes.

Until then I will daydream about one more cup baby. And get annoyed when against all odds our team of 35 year olds fails to get one

 

[SEALBound]

...though I mean... to Chicago's credit they didn't make a trade, find out the player just isn't working on the team and then proceed to bury their head in the sand for years. They moved on.

Crazy year for the Hawks post cup. They got Daley for Sharp who they couldn't keep for cap reasons. Daley is a flop so they immediately send him out for Scuderi. Sharp to Daley to Scuderi. Then they swapped Scuderi to LA for Ehrhoff who was no better.

I do think one of the reasons the Hawks were about to win 3 in 5 was their willingness to trade out good players. After each Cup win, they had to make A LOT of tough decisions but they were willing to make them and rebuild their rosters.

My personal favorite was the one poster here who hated Scuderi so much, it was on the hairguy-Malkin level, who spent a year and a half complaining that Scuderi was here and couldn't be moved. Adn then when the trade happened, he was even more mad that it was for Daley and with retention! We didn't get rid of him the right way, you see.

My personal favorite on that front was the Ryan Wilson masterpiece over at HockeyBuzz titled "Don't fall for Chicago's Fools Gold" where he proceeded to absolutely eviscerate Daley based solely on adv stats that he didn't even understand at the time. Hilarious then, hilarious now.

You wonder if this team wouldn't benefit from doing 7 D to spread out/reduce Dumo's minutes. Would also allow you to experiment who could be a long term Letang partner

They would not. That would require one or more of Sid, Malkin, Carter to pick up the slack as 4C. I would much rather run 12-6 over 11-7.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Lol I've tried but I still get a little angry or at least depressed about losses.

I will be fine when the expectation is that we suck. But it's difficult to suck when you expect not to. Being a tank team rules and I will embrace it and religiously follow the draft when that time comes.

Until then I will daydream about one more cup baby. And get annoyed when against all odds our team of 35 year olds fails to get one

I don't think this team sucks. They played some disjointed hockey on a road trip across the continent that ended up being 4 out of the 9 games they've played so far. It seems way worse because it's like half the season to this point. I got curious so I looked yesterday; the team loses 3 or 4 straight multiple times a year for the past several years at least. It's just that people don't get so upset about it when it's happening 50 games in as opposed to 5 games in. A four game losing streak doesn't solidify the team's identity any more than the 4-0-1 before it, imo.

They'll be fine. They'll make the playoffs. They'll go on some 9 game winning streak in like, February and everybody will be screaming "Shades of '16! This is it!" Then they'll meet like, the Bruins in the 1st round and be golfing after 6 games.

-edit- Or, they'll miss the playoffs for the first time in a long time. Whatev'. At least we don't have JR at the helm, chomping at the bit to trade the 15th overall pick for a dipshit 3rd liner because he drafted him and had his dad 20 years ago. Now, we'll just take the next Tristan Broz. -huge applause-

 

[K Fleur]

The Blackhawks traded Panarin for Saad

 

[Pancakes]

I don't think this team sucks. They played some disjointed hockey on a road trip across the continent that ended up being 4 out of the 9 games they've played so far. It seems way worse because it's like half the season to this point. I got curious so I looked yesterday; the team loses 3 or 4 straight multiple times a year for the past several years at least. It's just that people don't get so upset about it when it's happening 50 games in as opposed to 5 games in. A four game losing streak doesn't solidify the team's identity any more than the 4-0-1 before it, imo.

They'll be fine. They'll make the playoffs. They'll go on some 9 game winning streak in like, February and everybody will be screaming "Shades of '16! This is it!" Then they'll meet like, the Bruins in the 1st round and be golfing after 6 games.

Yeah I don't think we suck either. We suck right now, but I don't think that will last the whole year. If it does, then the rebuild will be starting earlier than any of us expected. You really never know when it comes to being an old team though. Sooner or later age will hit us hard enough to make us be bad and it will feel pretty sudden I imagine. Hopefully this year is not that year.

I think we might even win a playoff round depending on matchup/health.

I don't see another cup in this core though but I'd love to be wrong.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah I don't think we suck either. We suck right now, but I don't think that will last the whole year. If it does, then the rebuild will be starting earlier than any of us expected. You really never know when it comes to being an old team though. Sooner or later age will hit us hard enough to make us be bad and it will feel pretty sudden I imagine. Hopefully this year is not that year.

I think we might even win a playoff round depending on matchup/health.

I don't see another cup in this core though but I'd love to be wrong.

I don't think this team will start the rebuild after missing the playoffs once, to be fair. I think this team's pretty locked in until Sid's contract is up and then he'll decide what happens next. I know he said he wants to play for like three more years after his deal is up, but a whole lot can change between now and then. If this team's limping its way into the playoffs only to be outed in the 1st round annually, or missing entirely, I'm not sure he's gonna be stoked to go through the rigors of more NHL hockey. Particularly as Sid, a dude who people target and try to beat the shit out of every shift, every night.

We'll see, though.

 

[Pancakes]

I don't think this team will start the rebuild after missing the playoffs once, to be fair. I think this team's pretty locked in until Sid's contract is up and then he'll decide what happens next. I know he said he wants to play for like three more years after his deal is up, but a whole lot can change between now and then. If this team's limping its way into the playoffs only to be outed in the 1st round annually, or missing entirely, I'm not sure he's gonna be stoked to go through the rigors of more NHL hockey. Particularly as Sid, a dude who people target and try to beat the shit out of every shift, every night.

We'll see, though.

That's true. They probably won't kick off a full rebuild even if they do suck badly and miss the playoffs this year.

A re-tool with an attempt to try and make it again next year would seem more likely in that scenario. Trouble is, if this team ever becomes bad to the point they don't even make the playoffs, how the f do you retool? You're not trading any of the big three or Jake and many other players are old (Petry etc) so good luck rebuilding the team on the fly.

I don't think we'll have to worry about that just yet though. If we do miss the playoffs (and it seems unlikely) I think it will be by a narrow margin at worst.

But like you said, we'll see. If we're out of a spot by the end of November, I believe that's usually the cut off date for being potentially screwed as something like 80% of the teams in a playoff spot by the end of Nov usually make it.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

That's true. They probably won't kick off a full rebuild even if they do suck badly and miss the playoffs this year.

A re-tool with an attempt to try and make it again next year would seem more likely in that scenario. Trouble is, if this team ever becomes bad to the point they don't even make the playoffs, how the f do you retool? You're not trading any of the big three or Jake and many other players are old (Petry etc) so good luck rebuilding the team on the fly.

I don't think we'll have to worry about that just yet though. If we do miss the playoffs (and it seems unlikely) I think it will be by a narrow margin at worst.

But like you said, we'll see. If we're out of a spot by the end of November, I believe that's usually the cut off date for being potentially screwed as something like 80% of the teams in a playoff spot by the end of Nov usually make it.

Rebuild on the fly, or retool, or whatever name people want to throw on the whole "cut corners and try to cheese your way back to success instead of building from the ground up" thing--just ain't gonna work, imo. Pittsburgh's not gonna draw guys in as a living destination like an LA or NYC would. The team's chock full of old dudes in the extreme twilight of their careers, so it's only down from here. They have a ton of guys locked up long-term, so there's not a cap situation where you can see the Penguins throwing like $14 million AAV to snag Auston Matthews in FA and build around him or something.

This team's window has been shut for years, imo. They needed to make a sharp turn and do things differently when they lost to the Habs, but they locked in and stayed the course and now I think it's too late. So it's just hope Sid/Geno have an exceptional game now and then for entertainment's sake, and ride out the rest of this victory lap with zero expectations.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

If the Penguins are willing to actually make some tough decisions re: guys on expiring contracts they could potentially have a bonanza of cap space to work with to reshape the team. I don't know if it would actually work enough to flip them back to "hey these guys could make some noise" status but it's the only idea I've got if coaching is off limits.

But I can't help but lean BFD's way. They'll probably do the safe, predictable thing and just extend most of their FAs and hope that things will work themselves out for real this time, guys.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

If the Penguins are willing to actually make some tough decisions re: guys on expiring contracts they could potentially have a bonanza of cap space to work with to reshape the team. I don't know if it would actually work enough to flip them back to "hey these guys could make some noise" status but it's the only idea I've got if coaching is off limits.

But I can't help but lean BFD's way. They'll probably do the safe, predictable thing and just extend most of their FAs and hope that things will work themselves out for real this time, guys.

It's just, even if they did pull a 180 and start cutting bait with tenured names and shit. I don't know that anybody that hits UFA is really super worth chasing, and building around. Really, really good players don't usually end up in FA anymore. They're either locked up by their teams or dealt, then locked up where they end up via trade.

Of the 2023 UFA list; f*** Kane, f*** Toews. ROR is 32 and probably stays in StL. Tarasenko is 31 and isn't worth throwing huge money at. Klingberg signed a 1-year deal to try and prove he's worth a huge payday and isn't really excelling in Anaheim. Pasta is gonna get a bonkers deal if he hits FA. Larkin's interesting, but as a C, I don't think he really fits the Penguins unless they wanna move Sid or Geno over, and that's assuming he's not just re-signed in Detroit. List goes on.

Either it's a buncha old options, bad options, younger guys who stand to make absolutely ludicrous fortunes if they hit the market.

 

[Darren McCord]

Barbashev can also play wing. He brings a lot of what we want to the third line. Blues fans seem good with the deal too.

Ehhh I would rather keep hallander and actually give him a shot on the 4th line. I still like him as a prospect. He seems like he has been around forever but this is only his second pro season.

I also don't want to trade a second for what is almost a lateral move. Barbashev has one good season above 26 pts. Kap hasn't been bad either. Carter was much more of a drag on that line than him. I am excited to see DOC in there with him tonight. He is more polished than Poulin.

If your moving high pick and good prospect, aim for a guy with more upside or pedigree.

 

[Gurglesons]

It's just, even if they did pull a 180 and start cutting bait with tenured names and shit. I don't know that anybody that hits UFA is really super worth chasing, and building around. Really, really good players don't usually end up in FA anymore. They're either locked up by their teams or dealt, then locked up where they end up via trade.

Of the 2023 UFA list; f*** Kane, f*** Toews. ROR is 32 and probably stays in StL. Tarasenko is 31 and isn't worth throwing huge money at. Klingberg signed a 1-year deal to try and prove he's worth a huge payday and isn't really excelling in Anaheim. Pasta is gonna get a bonkers deal if he hits FA. Larkin's interesting, but as a C, I don't think he really fits the Penguins unless they wanna move Sid or Geno over, and that's assuming he's not just re-signed in Detroit. List goes on.

Either it's a buncha old options, bad options, younger guys who stand to make absolutely ludicrous fortunes if they hit the market.

I think you'd be more hoping they poach players ala Marino, Bjorkstrand, Patches this year from cap strapped teams versus making trades.

Ehhh I would rather keep hallander and actually give him a shot on the 4th line. I still like him as a prospect. He seems like he has been around forever but this is only his second pro season.

I also don't want to trade a second for what is almost a lateral move. Barbashev has one good season above 26 pts. Kap hasn't been bad either. Carter was much more of a drag on that line than him. I am excited to see DOC in there with him tonight. He is more polished than Poulin.

You are acquiring Barbashev for what he does away from the puck in addition to being at worst Kapanen production wise.

 

[Darren McCord]

I think you'd be more hoping they poach players ala Marino, Bjorkstrand, Patches this year from cap strapped teams versus making trades.



You are acquiring Barbashev for what he does away from the puck in addition to being at worst Kapanen production wise.

I still think that's over payment. Kap and a 2nd maybe. But I still don't like that verymuch.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It's just, even if they did pull a 180 and start cutting bait with tenured names and shit. I don't know that anybody that hits UFA is really super worth chasing, and building around. Really, really good players don't usually end up in FA anymore. They're either locked up by their teams or dealt, then locked up where they end up via trade.

Of the 2023 UFA list; f*** Kane, f*** Toews. ROR is 32 and probably stays in StL. Tarasenko is 31 and isn't worth throwing huge money at. Klingberg signed a 1-year deal to try and prove he's worth a huge payday and isn't really excelling in Anaheim. Pasta is gonna get a bonkers deal if he hits FA. Larkin's interesting, but as a C, I don't think he really fits the Penguins unless they wanna move Sid or Geno over, and that's assuming he's not just re-signed in Detroit. List goes on.

Either it's a buncha old options, bad options, younger guys who stand to make absolutely ludicrous fortunes if they hit the market.

I get it but start this year if you have to. Explore the trade market as well. Try to target teams that might have a player you think could work very well for THIS team but might not be in the best situation where he is. Actually use those pro scouts, maybe. Find teams with cap problems and go poaching... I dunno... commit to it. Don't just rely on the FA market because I agree that it comes with pitfalls.