Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap Thread: If we score 6 we win, its science!

[SEALBound]

I’d play him on the fourth line if Sullivan insists on using him in a defensive role, and then you can further limit his minutes…give Blue a shot on L3

Maybe. If there's anything worse than Carter's 4 goals in 29 games, it's Bleuger's 1 in 17.

What we need in scoring infusion into the bottom 6. Something that can shift some people around.

Heinen-Horvat-Kapanen
McGinn-Bleuger-Carter

Something like that...

 

[Gurglesons]

Can they afford Meier when Jake is going to be up the next offseason? Technically they can extend Jake this summer. I'm figuring 8 x 8 for Jake.

I don't have any issue with Trading a 1st plus some prospects (Anybody but Pickering) for Meier, even if that means he will only be here for the playoffs. I could see them being able to recoup a pick for his rights before FA. I'm all in on being all in. Players drafted this coming draft will not be available to contribute for 3-4 years at best.

I watched the Pens unwillingness to trade Milan Kraft for Rob Blake or Keith Tkachuk in 2001 when Lemieux was in the last great season of his career with a Pens team capable of winning the cup and I do not want to see that happen to Crosby, Malkin and Letang.

Carter and Kapanen come off the books the year of Jake’s extension so they will essentially pay for his raise

 

[HandshakeLine]

This is the best roster, on paper and when healthy, since 2017. It's the first one since Kessel was traded away that won't need elite coaching to make the playoffs.
Fortunately, we have elite coaching.

I'm not trying to be mean here, but... how exactly is it the best roster since 2017?

 

[Gurglesons]

I like Meier as much as anyone here, but that's a ton for a winger we probably won't use on PP1. Even if we could afford it and he plays like one of the better ES players in the league, it's still hard to justify that cap hit. His 5v5 P60 is worse than Zucker's right now, for example. He has 3 more goals so I'll give him the edge, but you get my point.

I would expect something like 50-55 points for him with how he'd be used here, at best with good health. Even if he did get PP1, he's never been particularly good at it.
There's no guarantees he'd have the chemistry with Malkin that he has with Sharks centers either.

It's just too much to dish out on the wing when we could easily be weak on the left side D and at 3C.

Not sure I get this statement.

We can spend 9-10 mil on Meier this year and 9-10 mil on Jake the year after and if the cap increases can easily build back our D or just accept our playoff hopes are over.

I'm not trying to be mean here, but... how exactly is it the best roster since 2017?

Best top six. Best top four D. Jarry is playing better than any goaltending performance since that year. Seems pretty obvious. What roster would you take on paper over it?

 

[Andy99]

Maybe. If there's anything worse than Carter's 4 goals in 29 games, it's Bleuger's 1 in 17.

What we need in scoring infusion into the bottom 6. Something that can shift some people around.

Heinen-Horvat-Kapanen
McGinn-Bleuger-Carter

Something like that...

Lol…of course I’d prefer Horvat too…but atm, Sullivan is using L3 in a defensive role primarily, and if you’re going to do that, at least have Teddy center it and You can put Carter on RW if you must..Carter is kind of tweener rn…he not fast enough or good enough offensively for the top six and hes terrible defensively for the bottom six lol…he’s probably best used as 13th forward off the bench but Sullivan would never do that to a vet and it’s not like we have better replacements, as you indicate…

 

[Gurglesons]

Lol…of course I’d prefer Horvat too…but atm, Sullivan is using L3 in a defensive role primarily, and if you’re going to do that, at least have Teddy center it and You can put Carter on RW if you must..Carter is kind of tweener rn…he not fast enough or good enough offensively for the top six and hes terrible defensively for the bottom six lol…he’s probably best used as 13th forward off the bench but Sullivan would never do that to a vet and it’s not like we have better replacements, as you indicate…

I’d be happy to acquire Horvat but he’s not really fantastic defensively.

 

[Andy99]

I’d be happy to acquire Horvat but he’s not really fantastic defensively.

Sullivan would have to use his L3 differently if we got him…and with something like McGinn-Horvat-Carter he hopefully would lol..

 

[SEALBound]

I’d be happy to acquire Horvat but he’s not really fantastic defensively.

That's why in my example I built McGinn-Blueger-Carter to take the brunt of the defensive work.

We are seemingly back to the old-school style of line building:
1. Scoring Line
2. Scoring Line
3. Defensive Shut Down Line
4. Checking Energy Line

I take issue with that, considering how vital supplementing scoring is in the playoffs. Our dmen are not lighting it up, and neither is our 4th line. Considering Sid and Geno are slowing down a tad, we need a reliable scoring third line now more than ever. There has to be some threat coming from the bottom 6. Right now, it's a pleasant surprise to see the bottom 6 score. It should be a reasonable expectation each game with realistic results being a contribution every other game or so.

 

[Gurglesons]

That's why in my example I built McGinn-Blueger-Carter to take the brunt of the defensive work.

We are seemingly back to the old-school style of line building:
1. Scoring Line
2. Scoring Line
3. Defensive Shut Down Line
4. Checking Energy Line

I take issue with that, considering how vital supplementing scoring is in the playoffs. Our dmen are not lighting it up, and neither is our 4th line. Considering Sid and Geno are slowing down a tad, we need a reliable scoring third line now more than ever. There has to be some threat coming from the bottom 6. Right now, it's a pleasant surprise to see the bottom 6 score. It should be a reasonable expectation each game with realistic results being a contribution every other game or so.

Barbashev is the answer.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Best top six. Best top four D. Jarry is playing better than any goaltending performance since that year. Seems pretty obvious. What roster would you take on paper over it?

On paper, I would have said the 2017-2018 squad was arguably better, albeit they massively underperformed. I'll definitely grant the wings are much better now, however. Rackell has been a great addition.

I think the thing is that even playing as well as Sid and Geno are now, they're still 4 years older. Letang looks like he can't handle the amount of minutes we need him to do, the top 4 blueline is uneven, the bottom 6 is... problematic at times, and while I like how our roster is constructed now, there's massive questions that remain in terms of it coming together. I don't think it's a bad team or anything, I just don't see it as this contender that others do, so I'm curious as to why.

 

[Andy99]

Another article about our bad L3 and Carter being the problem lol…just came out from Gretz so I’m assuming these articles are because everyone watched Carter last night and threw up their hands in misery lol…

Fixing the Penguins’ third line should be a priority

This is the biggest weakness on the team at the moment.

www.pensburgh.com

 

[HandshakeLine]

Barbashev is the answer.

I would love for that to be a reality, but I'm not sure we can swing it.

 

[Gurglesons]

On paper, I would have said the 2017-2018 squad was arguably better, albeit they massively underperformed. I'll definitely grant the wings are much better now, however. Rackell has been a great addition.

I think the thing is that even playing as well as Sid and Geno are now, they're still 4 years older. Letang looks like he can't handle the amount of minutes we need him to do, the top 4 blueline is uneven, the bottom 6 is... problematic at times, and while I like how our roster is constructed now, there's massive questions that remain in terms of it coming together. I don't think it's a bad team or anything, I just don't see it as this contender that others do, so I'm curious as to why.

The 17-18 Pens had awful defensive and forward depth up until we acquired Brassard.

Another article about our bad L3 and Carter being the problem lol…just came out from Gretz so I’m assuming these articles are because everyone watched Carter last night and threw up their hands in misery lol…

Fixing the Penguins’ third line should be a priority

This is the biggest weakness on the team at the moment.

www.pensburgh.com

Love Gretz, but it is a shot shares an xGF% argument. He brings up Jordan Staal's line in 09 ( 50% ozone starts) and HBK in 16. (70% ozone starts ) Go look at their usage compared to what Sullivan insists on doing with our bottom six. Sullivan is setting up our team to get out possessed when the bottom six is on the ice.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Another article about our bad L3 and Carter being the problem lol…just came out from Gretz so I’m assuming these articles are because everyone watched Carter last night and threw up their hands in misery lol…

Fixing the Penguins’ third line should be a priority

This is the biggest weakness on the team at the moment.

www.pensburgh.com

One way to fix that third line is flip Carter and TB but lol.

The 17-18 Pens had awful defensive and forward depth up until we acquired Brassard.

Well, yeah. I was going by rosters going into the post-season, isn't that the ultimate goal?

Like I can sort of see it, and the potential's there, but we've seen this team heat up and look great pretty much every season. I do think we're a few tweaks away from being a pretty good dark horse team this year though.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Any 3rd line that is getting 72% defensive zone starts and getting heavy defensive deployments is going to have shitty analytics.

 

[eXile3]

Any 3rd line that is getting 72% defensive zone starts and getting heavy defensive deployments is going to have shitty analytics.

Right but how shitty?

From Pensburgh, the last 10 games for the third line.

• Shot attempt share: 40.9 percent
• Scoring chance share: 41.6 percent
• High danger scoring chance share: 36.6 percent
• Expected goal share: 40.6 percent
• Goals for/goals against: 3-3 (50.0 percent)

I think fixing the 3rd line is the number one priority if you're looking to make moves.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Any 3rd line that is getting 72% defensive zone starts and getting heavy defensive deployments is going to have shitty analytics.

TBH I'm less concerned with the analytics than the fact that we're leaning heavily on a bunch of 35-38 year olds through the top 9, and we're in the middle of injury season.

I know it's extenuating circumstances and all, but seeing that L4 get an average of 6:40" of ice time trips the ol' worry switch.

 

[Gurglesons]

Right but how shitty?

From Pensburgh, the last 10 games for the third line.

• Shot attempt share: 40.9 percent
• Scoring chance share: 41.6 percent
• High danger scoring chance share: 36.6 percent
• Expected goal share: 40.6 percent
• Goals for/goals against: 3-3 (50.0 percent)

I think fixing the 3rd line is the number one priority if you're looking to make moves.

NHL Lines Advanced Stats

The Best Offensive and Defensive Lines in the NHL

moneypuck.com

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Recent reports say the cap is only going up 1M next year

Yes currently.

Why I mostly consider the 1 million increase as the current number to go off of.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I still think Carter should be used more as a high end scoring 4C rather than what he's used as now.

 

[Turin]

Any 3rd line that is getting 72% defensive zone starts and getting heavy defensive deployments is going to have shitty analytics.

Yea but 4 goals when you aren’t a play making C is bad no matter how you slice it.

 

[SEALBound]

Imagine if Kapanen and Carter were signed to one year deals instead of two.

Zucker - 5.5
Dumo - 4.1
Carter - 3.1
Kappy - 3.2
Bleuger - 2.2

$18.1mil would be a nice chunk of change to go shopping for impact players. Especially since DOC, Smith, and Poulin could fill one or two of those slots.

 

[chethejet]

My concern is Zucker is a Sully favorite and will push for his return. Hextall has to make the moves that he believes is needed vs what Sully wants now. Playoffs will be important for changes. No telling right now about that. But first round exit and Hextall has to change the smurf grinders narrative here. If not, trade him as he will bring in a nice pick and move on. Players I would like to see here next year besides Jarry are DOC, Hallander, LD Soucy as a FA. Move Petts or POJ as both are second and third pairing D men. Offer sheet for LW from Nashville and lose a second round pick. Kap traded to Nashville for Sessions and a couple picks for taking the contract.

Jake Sid Rakell 20M
Jeannot Geno Rust 14M
McGinn TB Carter 8,5M
Poehling DOC Sessions 4.5M
Poulin 800K

Soucy Letang 9.5M
Petts or POJ Petry 10M/7M
Smith Rutta 3.5M
Friedman Ruhwedel 1.5M

Jarry 6M
DeSmith 1.8M
Totals 80.5M 77.5M
Cap space 3.0M 6M

 

[Pancakes]

I don't love the Carter line but I don't feel like it's losing us games so I can tolerate it. As @Empoleon8771 said they get buried in terms of assignments anyways so you can only expect so much from them. And even with that McGinn and Kapanen have found some big offensive plays for us at times. They don't dominate possession-wise or in terms of xgoals but they do find a way to make key plays at times.

 

[Turin]

Horvat…lol

I like the player a lot obviously but.. he’s no 3C and will need to be on PP1 haha