Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap Thread: If we score 6 we win, its science!

[Andy99]

I think there's a discussion there though. Too far one side - Carter is bad because of low production but too far on the other side - Carter gets defensive minutes so it's okay that he sucks.

There are other players in the league that get defensive zone starts as well and do just fine. There comes a point when its not just the defensive zone starts either.

Woof. is that league wide or just the Penguins?

sounds like just the Pens if you compare it to the POJ quote but that’s a good question for @Jesse …I’m not sure

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'd rather see Hallander and Friedman.

I mean, at the very least, I'd like us to try our in house options here before we spend assets to acquire someone that might be underwhelming or a bust. Not that I'd say no any of the trades banded about here, mind you, but if you've got a guy in house who can take on that 3LD or depth D position for league minimum, then that gives you options. Same for having a guy that could take that 4C spot and you could package TB or someone else for some additional upgrades if you want to.

 

[HandshakeLine]

It's true. The one true sign of an asset management expert is posting continuously on a website. I hear "posting through it" is one of the hardest asset management techniques to master.

 

[Peat]

Very true on the American front.

Carter is floating positive on the GF and xGF front and Dom’s model has him at a positive GSVA.

I honestly hate the Carter contract as you know since you defended it against me, but he’s “fine” in the role. Is he great? No. Would I pay to improve on him? Yes.

But the reality is Sully defers to him. So we could pay multiple firsts and bring in Horvat and we likely still see Carter out there in the clutch just like Rust.

The extent to which Sully defers to him is part of the problem though. A notable Sully trait is being slow to withdraw his trust, and that has regularly meant Carter being in over his head over the past calendar year or so.

I guess over the whole season Carter's done well enough, yeah. And part of my worries are recency bias. But with Carter, recency bias becomes a worry we're seeing the next step back.

 

[SomeDude]

Typical fence sitting Brit

Lets just say I read this wrong the first couple times I saw it.

 

[Gurglesons]

The extent to which Sully defers to him is part of the problem though. A notable Sully trait is being slow to withdraw his trust, and that has regularly meant Carter being in over his head over the past calendar year or so.

I guess over the whole season Carter's done well enough, yeah. And part of my worries are recency bias. But with Carter, recency bias becomes a worry we're seeing the next step back.

It’s why I think a Barbashev type is the best addition for this team. I think Sullivan would play a LW / C in the bottom six to start and then if we need a top six bump you can move them up.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

The good thing about Carter is his ice time has dropped.

He averaged 16:55 for the season after coming over from LA, and then he averaged 17:40 last year, which was inflated by all of the injuries to start the season.

He's down to 14:34 this season. That is partially due to not playing as much on the PK (5th most used forward) or on the power play (2nd unit doesn't get a ton of time), but it's much more due to being used less at even strength. He's playing 12:10 per game at even strength, a drop over 2 minutes per game.

What's more is that his ice time has been dropping recently. He has nine games with less than 14 minutes of ice time, one of which saw him play just 4:18 due to injury.

Of those nine games with under 14 minutes TOI, six have occurred in December.

I think the Pens have realized he's not what he was.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think the Pens have realized he's not what he was.

Agreed.

Though a premature extension too late.

 

[Gurglesons]

The good thing about Carter is his ice time has dropped.

He averaged 16:55 for the season after coming over from LA, and then he averaged 17:40 last year, which was inflated by all of the injuries to start the season.

He's down to 14:34 this season. That is partially due to not playing as much on the PK (5th most used forward) or on the power play (2nd unit doesn't get a ton of time), but it's much more due to being used less at even strength. He's playing 12:10 per game at even strength, a drop over 2 minutes per game.

What's more is that his ice time has been dropping recently. He has nine games with less than 14 minutes of ice time, one of which saw him play just 4:18 due to injury.

Of those nine games with under 14 minutes TOI, six have occurred in December.

I think the Pens have realized he's not what he was.

I think this also has to do with us being actually healthy and having Poehling PKing.

 

[chethejet]

DOC gets the call tonight and I am interested to see him in his role of bigger LW/C who can PK and maybe add the bang from LW as well. I think Pen have a couple in house options to look at in DOC, Hallander. sully has to just bite the bullet here and try to bring more speed, size and bang for the bottom 6. If Kap is your leader in hits last game, that is not good. Kap is using his body more and that is nice to see him more engaged.

 

[Flying Dego]

DOC gets the call tonight and I am interested to see him in his role of bigger LW/C who can PK and maybe add the bang from LW as well. I think Pen have a couple in house options to look at in DOC, Hallander. sully has to just bite the bullet here and try to bring more speed, size and bang for the bottom 6. If Kap is your leader in hits last game, that is not good. Kap is using his body more and that is nice to see him more engaged.

Kap should be close to the lead for this team in hits? His whole MO is speed/forecheck similar to Zucker.

I'm interested in DOCs performances. To date he's been behind mentally causing him to look "busy" on the ice while not accomplishing anything. He's got the physical tools, I just need to see he can process the speed of the NHL.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I think the Pens have realized he's not what he was.

Man, good thing we signed him to an immobile contract as a 38 year old.

 

[Gurglesons]

DOC gets the call tonight and I am interested to see him in his role of bigger LW/C who can PK and maybe add the bang from LW as well. I think Pen have a couple in house options to look at in DOC, Hallander. sully has to just bite the bullet here and try to bring more speed, size and bang for the bottom 6. If Kap is your leader in hits last game, that is not good. Kap is using his body more and that is nice to see him more engaged.

Judging by DOC’s previous performances don’t hold your breath.

 

[Flying Dego]

Man, good thing we signed him to an immobile contract as a 38 year old.

I honestly don't mind the majority of Hextalls moves or signings. This one though is the black eye so far.

Initial trade was terrific for Carter but not the follow-up

 

[HandshakeLine]

I honestly don't mind the majority of Hextalls moves or signings. This one though is the black eye so far.

Initial trade was terrific for Carter but not the follow-up

Yeah, I was okay with the Carter move initially, but like I said at the time, a shortened season has real benefits for a lot of streaky, older players. Last year was certainly not the year to give him a poison-pilled contract that you can't move or buy out and look at him now, f***in' lol.

The Rackell trade and signing continues to be a great move though.

 

[Power Surge]

The good thing about Carter is his ice time has dropped.

He averaged 16:55 for the season after coming over from LA, and then he averaged 17:40 last year, which was inflated by all of the injuries to start the season.

He's down to 14:34 this season. That is partially due to not playing as much on the PK (5th most used forward) or on the power play (2nd unit doesn't get a ton of time), but it's much more due to being used less at even strength. He's playing 12:10 per game at even strength, a drop over 2 minutes per game.

What's more is that his ice time has been dropping recently. He has nine games with less than 14 minutes of ice time, one of which saw him play just 4:18 due to injury.

Of those nine games with under 14 minutes TOI, six have occurred in December.

I think the Pens have realized he's not what he was.

I think it's actually good hes getting less minutes now because later in toward the playoffs he potentially could help.

Unlike last year where he got a ton of minutes due to Malkins injury and he was worn out by the end of the year due to age.

 

[Andy99]

This thread is really depressing and could use some levity…or just consider this a visual of Dumo’s and Carter’s performances this season to date lol

 

[Peat]

I'd prefer to go cheaper and land Jeannot because I think he'd still bring a unique skillset to our forward group without (presumably) costing as much as Meier.

Granted, Meier's a better scorer. But in reality we should have enough scoring as it is that just adding another top nine winger with bite will suffice.

Fair. Makes a lot of sense. This season I agree with you.

But the thing is, if we're talking paying a lot of assets for a player that's for life and not just for Christmas, I really struggle with the idea of giving over the good stuff when I feel like we've got some big looming holes that could really make a difference.



Different although kinda related question - in a complete vacuum, if we got a 3rd line LW at the deadline, would people rather have Jeannot or JVR as a pure rental i.e. ignoring Jeannot's extra years of team control and age, and so on.

 

[Gurglesons]

Fair. Makes a lot of sense. This season I agree with you.

But the thing is, if we're talking paying a lot of assets for a player that's for life and not just for Christmas, I really struggle with the idea of giving over the good stuff when I feel like we've got some big looming holes that could really make a difference.



Different although kinda related question - in a complete vacuum, if we got a 3rd line LW at the deadline, would people rather have Jeannot or JVR as a pure rental i.e. ignoring Jeannot's extra years of team control and age, and so on.

JVR probably comes 1000x cheaper so JVR. Jeannot is the better fit, but if we view him as a rental a 1st for a rental is stupid at this time period.

 

[Peat]

JVR probably comes 1000x cheaper so JVR. Jeannot is the better fit, but if we view him as a rental a 1st for a rental is stupid at this time period.

Vacuum. Forget asset cost, cap hit, everything except who'd be the best fit for those 20 odd regular season games and playoffs. So Jeannot as better fit for you, right? By how much?

I know all those things matter and it's not in a vacuum, but I'm curious to know what exactly player wise people think is our main need.

 

[Andy99]

Vacuum. Forget asset cost, cap hit, everything except who'd be the best fit for those 20 odd regular season games and playoffs. So Jeannot as better fit for you, right? By how much?

I know all those things matter and it's not in a vacuum, but I'm curious to know what exactly player wise people think is our main need.

we need another D and another forward…for forward, it’s not either of these guys…we need someone who can drive play for L3 so we can have another HBK lol…P.Kane is ideal, or Horvat…someone with offensive skills more than just going to net and being a big body, but who can make the zone entries and set up plays when we get there…

on D, we need to replace Dumo with someone with more mobility but who can still defend…

 

[Gurglesons]

Vacuum. Forget asset cost, cap hit, everything except who'd be the best fit for those 20 odd regular season games and playoffs. So Jeannot as better fit for you, right? By how much?

I know all those things matter and it's not in a vacuum, but I'm curious to know what exactly player wise people think is our main need.

Jeannot without question.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Jeannot is an RFA after the season. So he would not be a rental.

 

[Gurglesons]

Jeannot is an RFA after the season. So he would not be a rental.

@Peat is creating some weird situation where we don’t care about that.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Vacuum. Forget asset cost, cap hit, everything except who'd be the best fit for those 20 odd regular season games and playoffs. So Jeannot as better fit for you, right? By how much?

I know all those things matter and it's not in a vacuum, but I'm curious to know what exactly player wise people think is our main need.

Jeannot. It comes back to the type of player he is being something we just don't have.

I also think he'd fit in better with Sullivan since he's responsible defensively and can PK. JVR is better offensively (though a very limited player), but unless Jake/Rakell lose their spot on the top PP to him, won't really add much of what we need.