Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap Thread: If we score 6 we win, its science!

[Pancakes]

Why will we be in cap hell?

We can afford to pay a top six player 8 million and a goaltender 6 million and effectively still have 5 million to fill out our 4th line and 3rd pairing.

I guess we'll see how it shakes out. I expect we'll re-sign Zucker and Jarry for decent amounts of money. Dumo I'd like to think they will let walk but I'm not holding my breath there.

There's cap flexibility there if Hextall wants but I think a lot will just be put towards re-signing guys.

Nah the Penguins are in a comfortable spot with the cap for next year. If they keep Blueger ($3 million) and Jarry ($6 million) and let Zucker and Dumoulin go, they'll have about $11 million in cap space with 9 F, 7 D and 2 G under contract.

They'll be sitting with this forward group with $11 million in cap space:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rakell
XXXXX-Malkin-Rust
McGinn-Carter-Kapanen
XXXXX-Blueger-XXXXXX
XXXXX-XXXXX

POJ-Letang
Pettersson-Petry
Smith-Rutta
Ruhwedel

Jarry-DeSmith

I don't think they'll let Zucker walk.

 

[Gurglesons]

I guess we'll see how it shakes out. I expect we'll re-sign Zucker and Jarry for decent amounts of money. Dumo I'd like to think they will let walk but I'm not holding my breath there.

There's cap flexibility there if Hextall wants but I think a lot will just be put towards re-signing guys.

No idea why we would do any of that and what makes people think we would.

I guess we'll see how it shakes out. I expect we'll re-sign Zucker and Jarry for decent amounts of money. Dumo I'd like to think they will let walk but I'm not holding my breath there.

There's cap flexibility there if Hextall wants but I think a lot will just be put towards re-signing guys.


I don't think they'll let Zucker walk.

Why would they not let Zucker walk lol? He's going to want to get paid after his season. Makes absolutely no sense to resign him.

 

[Pancakes]

No idea why we would do any of that and what makes people think we would.

Do what? Re-sign Zucker and Jarry? Hextall's MO so far has been to hold onto guys. Unless Zucker asks for a huge raise I'd almost be surprised to see him walk. Jarry for sure is going nowhere because Hextall isn't going to be so bold as to go goalie hunting when he has a young one in the fold. Not unless Jarry has a Maf level meltdown in the playoffs this year and perhaps not even then.

I'd like to think he won't re-sign Dumoulin but I don't know if Hextall/Sullivan view Dumoulin the same way we do.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't think they'll let Zucker walk.

Then they'll have like no holes on the roster and will have a bit of cap space. I don't see that as an issue. Zucker likely gets an AAV similar to Rakell if he's extended, so you're still sitting with cap space in that case.

If that happens, you're just looking at something like:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rakell
Zucker-Malkin-Rust
McGinn-Carter-Kapanen
Poehling-Blueger-XXXXX
O'Connor-XXXXX

Pettersson-Letang
POJ-Petry
Smith-Rutta
Ruhwedel

Jarry-DeSmith

And you'll have about $3 million in cap space. It's effectively the same roster as last year but with JJ's buyout penalty decreasing by $1 million and the cap increasing by $1 million.

 

[Gurglesons]

Do what? Re-sign Zucker and Jarry? Hextall's MO so far has been to hold onto guys. Unless Zucker asks for a huge raise I'd almost be surprised to see him walk. Jarry for sure is going nowhere because Hextall isn't going to be so bold as to go goalie hunting when he has a young one in the fold. Not unless Jarry has a Maf level meltdown in the playoffs this year and perhaps not even then.

I'd like to think he won't re-sign Dumoulin but I don't know if Hextall/Sullivan view Dumoulin the same way we do.

No it hasn't.

Hextall took over this team..

Guentzel - Crosby - Rust
Zucker - Malkin - Kapanen
McCann - Jankowski - Rodrigues
ZAR - Blueger - Tanev

Dumo - Letang
Pettersson - Marino
Matheson - Ceci

Jarry
Desmith

Since then you have..

Guentzel - Crosby - Rakell
Zucker - Malkin - Rust
McGinn - Carter - Kapanen
Poehling - Blueger - Archibald

Pettersson - Letang
POJ - Petry
Dumo - Rutta

Jarry
Desmith

5 regular forwards and 3 regular defenseman out within the span of a year and a half.

Hextall has been committed to keeping the core. Crosby, Malkin, Letang. He has committed to Rust, Carter and Rakell which all made sense at their resigning points and essentially everything else has been up in the air.

 

[Pancakes]

Then they'll have like no holes on the roster and will have a bit of cap space. I don't see that as an issue. Zucker likely gets an AAV similar to Rakell if he's extended, so you're still sitting with cap space in that case.

If that happens, you're just looking at something like:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rakell
Zucker-Malkin-Rust
McGinn-Carter-Kapanen
Poehling-Blueger-XXXXX
O'Connor-XXXXX

Pettersson-Letang
POJ-Petry
Smith-Rutta
Ruhwedel

Jarry-DeSmith

And you'll have about $3 million in cap space. It's effectively the same roster as last year but with JJ's buyout penalty decreasing by $1 million and the cap increasing by $1 million.

Right, that's fine and all but that's still effectively cap hell in the sense that we aren't going to be able to take on big contracts for good players like Gurglesons is saying.

In order to make a play on some of the bigger trade names we'll need to keep a lot more space clear and I don't think Hextall will.

 

[Empoleon8771]

By the way, if you re-sign Dumoulin, you need to trade one of Smith, POJ or Pettersson because all 3 are waiver eligible starting next year. With how highly they've spoken of Smith and how Pettersson has gotten a substantially enhanced role (effectively replacing Dumoulin), I don't see any way that they re-sign Dumoulin. It's both a cap issue and a roster space issue.

With how POJ and Pettersson have played this year, I think the super obvious move with the defense is just letting Dumoulin walk and calling up Smith to replace him. I'm really not worried about Hextall locking into Dumoulin because it just doesn't make sense from any angle.

 

[Pancakes]

No it hasn't.

Hextall took over this team..

Guentzel - Crosby - Rust
Zucker - Malkin - Kapanen
McCann - Jankowski - Rodrigues
ZAR - Blueger - Tanev

Dumo - Letang
Pettersson - Marino
Matheson - Ceci

Jarry
Desmith

Since then you have..

Guentzel - Crosby - Rakell
Zucker - Malkin - Rust
McGinn - Carter - Kapanen
Poehling - Blueger - Archibald

Pettersson - Letang
POJ - Petry
Dumo - Rutta

Jarry
Desmith

5 regular forwards and 3 regular defenseman out within the span of a year and a half.

Hextall has been committed to keeping the core. Crosby, Malkin, Letang. He has committed to Rust, Carter and Rakell and essentially everything else has been up in the air.

Anyone important has been kept with the exception of McCann. Maybe Erod if you want to be generous.

Hextall did make some trades with Marino and Matheson but he didn't let those guys walk in FA. He has made trades but he's always re-signed his big FAs for the most part.

 

[Gurglesons]

Anyone important has been kept with the exception of McCann. Maybe Erod if you want to be generous.

Hextall did make some trades with Marino and Matheson but he didn't let those guys walk in FA. He has made trades but he's always re-signed his big FAs for the most part.

He's been here for two free agencies and effectively moved out multiple long term pieces in both periods to get cheaper in depth roles.

Nothing Hextall has done makes it seem like he would overpay for Dumoulin or Zucker.

Rust and Rakell were signed because they took below market deals and are top six wingers. If Zucker or Dumoulin are resigned they will be taking low cap deals.

The trend with Hextall since day one has been cap structure. He is paying everyone on the roster currently what they should be paid in their role usage outside of Dumoulin.

 

[Pancakes]

He's been here for two free agencies and effectively moved out multiple long term pieces in both periods to get cheaper in depth roles.

Nothing Hextall has done makes it seem like he would overpay for Dumoulin or Zucker.

Rust and Rakell were signed because they took below market deals and are top six wingers. If Zucker or Dumoulin are resigned they will be taking low cap deals.

The trend with Hextall since day one has been cap structure. He is paying everyone on the roster currently what they should be paid in their role usage outside of Dumoulin.

I don't think he will overpay them. But I think he will keep guys if they aren't asking for raises. Giving Zucker the same deal or close to it but with term isn't an overpayment, for example. I could see Hextall doing that.

Jarry I'm like 99% sure he will keep, even if he doesn't love the price.

Dumo I *hope* they let go, but again I don't know how they actually view him. They might value him a lot more than we do. But if any of those three walk, I think it's Dumo.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If Zucker gets extended, I imagine it's for something similar to what Rakell got, probably with fewer years due to Zucker being a bit older. I'd guess 4 years at a $5 million AAV. I'm not concerned about Zucker coming in any higher than that, I don't think a team would pay a 31.5 year old Zucker more than that after 1 resurgent season.

With that being said, I'd probably prefer to let him walk, but it's something I'm really conflicted on. On one hand, Zucker this year has been the exact player the Penguins thought they were getting. He's been a terrific fit with Malkin and fills his role (2nd line complementary guy and 2nd PP unit net front guy) perfectly. What makes it even better is that he's been really strong away from the puck as well. The issue is what he did in the previous 2 years.

To me, Zucker's situation basically seems to be "he's a good player as long as he's healthy". But do you want to gamble on a 31.5 year old Zucker staying healthy? I just honestly don't know and I'm glad I'm not making the decision. I love the player, I don't love the decision to re-sign him and gambling on him staying healthy at his age.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

how highly they've spoken of Smith

They have?

 

[Empoleon8771]

They have?

Burke has said multiple times that Smith is a big part of their future defense, has he not?

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Burke has said multiple times that Smith is a big part of their future defense, has he not?

I literally don't know, that's why I asked.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I literally don't know, that's why I asked.

I thought I read it in a Haase interview with Burke earlier in the year, but I can't find anything about it when searching through Twitter. So maybe I'm just wrong here, but I'll post it if I find it.

 

[SEALBound]

I wouldn’t mind sending Heinen out and bringing in another McGinn type of bottom-6 forward. I don’t really see a spot for Heinen anywhere if he’s not on the 3rd line and 2nd PP unit, and he shouldn’t be in that spot right now. I think my goal lineup right now would be a trade with Carter and Kapanen on L3 and McGinn-Blueger-Archibald as L4. If Kapanen starts to struggle again, you can scratch him, bump McGinn up to L3 and add Poehling back to the forward group.

A reverse Heinen for Richtie trade would make sense for us. My only worry is that Heinen is a guy I'm okay putting on any line as a fill in for injuries. Say it's Ritchie or McGinn, I'm not sure i have that comfort even with the production levels of McGinn being superior to that of Heinen.

No. Barbashev.

*licks lips* Yes. Costly though.

Johnny Hockey reportedly turned down $10.5M x 8 from the Flames to sign $9.75M x 7 with f***ing Columbus.

Taxes my man.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I can totally see them walking away from both Zucker and Dumoulin.

That's like 9.5 towards the cap. Jarry will tap into that for at least 2.0/2.0+ on top of what he currently gets.

It'd be cool to get Horvat and add to this teams everything.

 

[Andy99]

I don’t want us to continue to sign every 30+ year old winger who has played well for us lol…I hope Zucker gets his payday from someone else…I’d like us to have a GM who is trying to find ways to get us a little bit younger (gasp, I know, heresy) without losing much in the way of quality play…just imagine if we let Zucker and Dumo walk and tried to trade for or offer sheet a couple good young RFAs

 

[pistolpete11]

Taxes my man.

For sure, but a similar change would apply going from Vancouver to Pittsburgh. So just because he turned down almost $8M in Vancouver doesn't mean that's what it would take to get him signed in Pittsburgh.

....not that I think it's realistic the Pens get him anyway....just saying.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Signing Zucker would be such a Penguins thing to do. I appreciate the guy but it's time to move on after this year.

 

[Gurglesons]

If Zucker gets extended, I imagine it's for something similar to what Rakell got, probably with fewer years due to Zucker being a bit older. I'd guess 4 years at a $5 million AAV. I'm not concerned about Zucker coming in any higher than that, I don't think a team would pay a 31.5 year old Zucker more than that after 1 resurgent season.

With that being said, I'd probably prefer to let him walk, but it's something I'm really conflicted on. On one hand, Zucker this year has been the exact player the Penguins thought they were getting. He's been a terrific fit with Malkin and fills his role (2nd line complementary guy and 2nd PP unit net front guy) perfectly. What makes it even better is that he's been really strong away from the puck as well. The issue is what he did in the previous 2 years.

To me, Zucker's situation basically seems to be "he's a good player as long as he's healthy". But do you want to gamble on a 31.5 year old Zucker staying healthy? I just honestly don't know and I'm glad I'm not making the decision. I love the player, I don't love the decision to re-sign him and gambling on him staying healthy at his age.

I don’t see anything outside of Carter pointing to us resigning Zucker and even Carter was an insignificant cap hit for a player who generously over performing it both in the regular season and playoffs.

Everything about what we’ve done with the cap in my eyes leads towards them taking a big swing next year for a “Kessel” like addition whether that be up front or on D.

Now I don’t know that that “Kessel” like addition will be any younger than Zucker, but I see them opening up that cap to bring in a Petry type forward for cheap.

 

[DearDiary]

Taxes my man.

That's an old argument that has been debunked many times, most recently I can think of was the Tampa thread on the main board.

Canadian players are paid in US dollars. The higher the gap in exchange rate, the more money he makes, which will be increasing even more over the term of the contract. Players are also paid based on the Province/State a game has been played in. Not only would Gaudreau gotten paid more in Calgary, he also gets an extra year

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

I can totally see them walking away from both Zucker and Dumoulin.

That's like 9.5 towards the cap. Jarry will tap into that for at least 2.0/2.0+ on top of what he currently gets.

It'd be cool to get Horvat and add to this teams everything.

I'm hoping playoffs or not come deadline that they're both moved for assets while we try to replace them for cheaper and younger options.

Regardless, both should not be extended!!

Signing Zucker would be such a Penguins thing to do. I appreciate the guy but it's time to move on after this year.

Combined with a season ending injury during the season opener next year!!!

 

[chethejet]

Cant see dumo holding back smith next year. POJ is making sully rethink things here. Sully has to know that adding and developing younger assets makes sense in a aging team. Next year Petry Letang, plus Sid and Geno are older and probably benefit from less minutes. Keep Jarry, Teddy B, Poehling, plus DOC, Hallander and Puustinen, will compete for spots as well.

 

[SEALBound]

Signing Zucker would be such a Penguins thing to do. I appreciate the guy but it's time to move on after this year.

Yes and no. Depends on what his contract demands are. I'd 1000% bring him back on a 3x3.

Look at available FAs that are likely to make it to the market and tell me who you would rather have? It's a bleak FA market coming up to be quite honest.

That's an old argument that has been debunked many times, most recently I can think of was the Tampa thread on the main board.

Canadian players are paid in US dollars. The higher the gap in exchange rate, the more money he makes, which will be increasing even more over the term of the contract. Players are also paid based on the Province/State a game has been played in. Not only would Gaudreau gotten paid more in Calgary, he also gets an extra year

As per his parents, they also atrociously lowballed him at the beginning of the season. Contracts are all about wheeling and dealing yes, but there's a stark difference between negotiating and flat-out embarrassing someone. Especially a high-end player that you would like to keep.