Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap: Free Agency, everyone panic!!! Geno talk to the Geno thread only please

[Zirakzigil]

Off season time. New thread time apparently cause @Ugene Magic doesn’t like high page counts.

So how about them Malkin and Letang UFAs? Maybe we should sign one or both.

Geno thread. Keep Geno talk here:

Rumor: - Geno where art thou?

With all the Geno rumors and news, time for its own thread. Keep the Geno talk here please.

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[Mr Jiggyfly]

2x6 isn't a realistic offer for a player of Malkin's current skills, injury prone or not. Letang and Crosby have also had their significant struggles with injury as I recall. I don't think this is a simple case of a star getting butthurt over aging out, although I'm sure that's some part of it. I would like to think a deal gets done at 3x7 or near it.

It’s a fair offer for a guy who can’t be relied upon to be healthy anymore.

Letang on the other hand just put up one of his best seasons, is still an elite skater, and is known for his legendary workouts (Malkin, not so much).

They have apparently offered him a third year, which is probably going to ultimately end up making the bulk of the fan base hate him, let alone four.

That’s what people don’t get here -

Malkin, is clearly slowing down. Mark my words, all his “fans” will soon turn on him when he’s an albatross contract on the backside of a four year deal.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The truth is that Malkin has been let down by the team's disinterest in giving him proper support.

The eye test and and the underlying numbers all support this. He's expected to be the turd polisher extraordinaire.

The team has tried to give him support. Well... JR did.

It's just that it was latter-day JR and he didn't look at much more than the name brand on the shiny box in one case and felt the need to "right a wrong" with the other. IF Malkin is back hopefully a re-signed Raks can be the guy. But frankly I think he's more of a third wheel type, too. Even if the rest of the board loves the guy unconditionally already.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Those deals don’t happen if Rust or Letang were greedy pricks. You all give Hextall credit for these signings, but the players could easily have gone to free agency if all they cared about is money. Hextall is fortunate that Letang cares about his legacy and Rust’s wife family lives near Pittsburgh or they’d be gone unless Sleepy overpaid.

Or if Hextall weren't a capable negotiator. The last GM we had, for all his other gifts, often was not.

 

[SomeDude]

Those deals don’t happen if Rust or Letang were greedy pricks. You all give Hextall credit for these signings, but the players could easily have gone to free agency if all they cared about is money. Hextall is fortunate that Letang cares about his legacy and Rust’s wife family lives near Pittsburgh or they’d be gone unless Sleepy overpaid.

I don’t think you can physically bring yourself to give Hextall any credit.

If we still had JR, he would have traded Letang for Max Domi and given Rust and Malkin 8x8

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

The team has tried to give him support. Well... JR did.

It's just that it was latter-day JR and he didn't look at much more than the name brand on the shiny box in one case and felt the need to "right a wrong" with the other. IF Malkin is back hopefully a re-signed Raks can be the guy. But frankly I think he's more of a third wheel type, too. Even if the rest of the board loves the guy unconditionally already.

Yep. That's why the team needs to reshuffle things a bit to bring in a better complement.

It's very doable. They just need the will to do it.

 

[Pens x]

Or if Hextall weren't a capable negotiator. The last GM we had, for all his other gifts, often was not.

It always goes back to comparing Hextall to JR. Every damn time.

Stop comparing him to an idiot to justify his time here.

I don’t think you can physically bring yourself to give Hextall any credit.

If we still had JR, he would have traded Letang for Max Domi and given Rust and Malkin 8x8

Im shocked, here we go comparing Hextall to JR, one of the worst GM’s after 2017.

Stop comparing him to that idiot.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

At some point, re-signing players that were here before you were hired can’t be your best move entering your third season as GM.

I also think many of you have no memory and don’t realize how much he failed by retaining DeSmith.

Hextall also added Carter and Rakell for peanuts, two guys who improved the team.

If you think re-signing a back-up who's performed at a starter level here for less than 2 mil per negates those things, there's not much room for discussion.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

It’s a fair offer for a guy who can’t be relied upon to be healthy anymore.

Letang on the other hand just put up one of his best seasons, is still an elite skater, and is known for his legendary workouts (Malkin, not so much).

They have apparently offered him a third year, which is probably going to ultimately end up making the bulk of the fan base hate him, let alone four.

That’s what people don’t get here -

Malkin, is clearly slowing down. Mark my words, all his “fans” will soon turn on him when he’s an albatross contract on the backside of a four year deal.

The commentary about the fan base turning on him doesn’t really matter. Malkin’s an elite player, future hall of famer, and this team would not have won 3 Cups without him. He’s done more than earn the right to stay here until he retires. And while he has been injured often, when he is playing, he’s still a top player in this league.

 

[SomeDude]

It always goes back to comparing Hextall to JR. Every damn time.

Stop comparing him to an idiot to justify his time here.


Im shocked, here we go comparing Hextall to JR, one of the worst GM’s after 2017.

Stop comparing him to that idiot.

How else are you supposed to judge someone? You compare them to their peers.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

It always goes back to comparing Hextall to JR. Every damn time.

Stop comparing him to an idiot to justify his time here.

If it were such a slam dunk, our past GM could have done it. But he didn't.

And again, nobody here was projecting Rust and Letang to sign for the cap hits they did. The cap hits Hextall got them for outperformed the board's expectations.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

The team has tried to give him support. Well... JR did.

It's just that it was latter-day JR and he didn't look at much more than the name brand on the shiny box in one case and felt the need to "right a wrong" with the other. IF Malkin is back hopefully a re-signed Raks can be the guy. But frankly I think he's more of a third wheel type, too. Even if the rest of the board loves the guy unconditionally already.

Rakell doesn’t get a ton of credit for the amount of opportunities he creates with his dynamic skillset. He was immediately the 3rd most talented winger the Pens had in terms of stick skills when he was acquired, and was generating chances consistently.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'm going to laugh when Letang slips back to his missing 20-30 games a season routine. It's still a fine deal, but this whole "Letang has figured out the secret to not being injury prone" routine is basically a house of cards that is one dumb Letang mistake from collapsing.

 

[Pens x]

Hextall also added Carter and Rakell for peanuts, two guys who improved the team.

If you think re-signing a back-up who's performed at a starter level here for less than 2 mil per negates those things, there's not much room for discussion.

DeSmith also had the same injury that kept him out of two back to back playoffs. You don’t re-sign someone with that, you run. When your goalies sunk your team two straight seasons, you make a change.

Rakell deal was very good, but if he walks, it didn’t really matter in the end. All goodwill from the Carter deal was negative by the extension.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

He’s also have the same injury that kept him out of two back to back playoffs. You don’t re-sign someone with that, you run. When your goalies sunk your team two straight seasons, you make a change.

Looking at things in a vacuum without any context or frame of reference will often result in flawed evaluations.

Check Ville Husso's numbers from last year - including the playoffs - and what he just signed for. That's the goalie market in 2022.

 

[Headshot77]

Those deals don’t happen if Rust or Letang were greedy pricks. You all give Hextall credit for these signings, but the players could easily have gone to free agency if all they cared about is money. Hextall is fortunate that Letang cares about his legacy and Rust’s wife family lives near Pittsburgh or they’d be gone unless Sleepy overpaid.

At some point, re-signing players that were here before you were hired can’t be your best move entering your third season as GM.

I also think many of you have no memory and don’t realize how much he failed by retaining DeSmith.

So when Hextall does something good he gets no credit, and when does something neutral like signing CDS he gets shit on. Got it.

 

[ronduguayshair]

Nah, it's not. It isn't just negotiating. You don't nickle and dime and haggle over bullshit until the last moment with a player who has done what Malkin has for this team. I don't really care what people's opinions on it are, and I fully recognize that a deal is still possible and maybe likely. But there will be bad blood now because of how this went down, and none of it was necessary. There should be a baseline level of respect for this player's accomplishments and commitment to the team over the last 16 years of success. I care about the team getting a good deal, but I also care about not treating Evgeni Malkin like he's some run of the mill guy about to head into the nursing home. Embarrassing stuff from a mediocre manager.

People can also say whatever about Rossi. Yeah he's slimy and a melodramatic booby. Doesn't change going weeks between offers and putting your Hall of Fame center on ice while you lock up Jeff Carter and Casey DeSmith.

Sounds like you're more a fan of the player and not the team.

Because getting #71 as cheap as possible is best for the team.

If we gave favorite player what he wants then there would be excuses that he doesn't have good enough linemates. You realize #71 no longer makes players around him better right?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm going to laugh when Letang slips back to his missing 20-30 games a season routine. It's still a fine deal, but this whole "Letang has figured out the secret to not being injury prone" routine is basically a house of cards that is one dumb Letang mistake from collapsing.

Right? I mean I completely get that Malkin is going to take a ton of flak for his injury woes. What can I really say about all that? But it's a little aggravating to see so many people write this commentary in stone about how he's a LOCK for missing "50% of the season" or whatever and Letang is totally going to be this Ironman from here on out.

Rakell doesn’t get a ton of credit for the amount of opportunities he creates with his dynamic skillset. He was immediately the 3rd most talented winger the Pens had in terms of stick skills when he was acquired, and was generating chances consistently.

Fair enough. He's a slick player no doubt... great hands and really shifty. I loved him with Sid (which they almost certainly won't reprise). But he still seems more of a facilitator, if that makes sense. I'd love the team to have a Jake for the second line... someone who can put the puck in the net when they get quality looks. That was the big big issue on L2 last season.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Rakell deal was very good, but if he walks, it didn’t really matter in the end. All goodwill from the Carter deal was negative by the extension.

Of course it mattered. Making deals that improve your team is what you judge a GM on, and doubly so if he does it without including valuable assets.

 

[ronduguayshair]

We all have to do things we don't like in order to get other things done.

This isn't a team that should be prioritizing the future over the present, and Zucker's contract gums up the works.


The truth is that Malkin has been let down by the team's disinterest in giving him proper support.

The eye test and and the underlying numbers all support this. He's expected to be the turd polisher extraordinaire.

Stop making excuses for #71. Its pathetic. If he's really at 7+ million player he'd be better 5 on 5 and make players around him better.

Does this fanbase actually watch the games? I mean you don't need season tickets to do so. Although in person you can see the whole ice. Especially from row a.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The next time someone gets all worked up over fans "propping up Geno" too much or whatever... read threads like this on the day-to-day and realize this place likes the guy more than most.

 

[Turin]

Nah, it's not. It isn't just negotiating. You don't nickle and dime and haggle over bullshit until the last moment with a player who has done what Malkin has for this team. I don't really care what people's opinions on it are, and I fully recognize that a deal is still possible and maybe likely. But there will be bad blood now because of how this went down, and none of it was necessary. There should be a baseline level of respect for this player's accomplishments and commitment to the team over the last 16 years of success. I care about the team getting a good deal, but I also care about not treating Evgeni Malkin like he's some run of the mill guy about to head into the nursing home. Embarrassing stuff from a mediocre manager.

People can also say whatever about Rossi. Yeah he's slimy and a melodramatic booby. Doesn't change going weeks between offers and putting your Hall of Fame center on ice while you lock up Jeff Carter and Casey DeSmith.

Don’t agree. Two things needed to happen. Pens needed to sign Malkin and Malkins number needed to go down by virtue of missing 50% of his games the last 8 seasons. If both those happen then Hextall did his job.

 

[ronduguayshair]

Everytime a poster buys a ticket on the #71 excuse train, I'm going to post this.

#71 had 3 primary assists 5 on 5 ALL SEASON. Pathetic. Certainly not elite.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

It’s a fair offer for a guy who can’t be relied upon to be healthy anymore.

Letang on the other hand just put up one of his best seasons, is still an elite skater, and is known for his legendary workouts (Malkin, not so much).

They have apparently offered him a third year, which is probably going to ultimately end up making the bulk of the fan base hate him, let alone four.

That’s what people don’t get here -

Malkin, is clearly slowing down. Mark my words, all his “fans” will soon turn on him when he’s an albatross contract on the backside of a four year deal.

That's a lot of recency bias for Letang. It was only a couple seasons ago that many wanted him out of town for killing us in key games with insanely risky plays and irresponsible decisions, not to mention he has major injury history behind him, including an extremely risky stroke issue.

Not sure it's 100% fair to say Malkin is slowing down after the season where he came back midway through after major knee surgery. Sure, he's not 25 anymore but hardly a museum piece.

I'm not a big fan of four years for him unless the money is great, but three is completely fair and he will easily get that on the market, with a much higher AAV than what the Pens are offering. They need to pony up as well. Stars of that caliber get treated a little differently, even when they are older. It's not like Hextall is running some type of cut throat business operation here. Nice job on that Carter deal.

 

[Pens x]

Of course it mattered. Making deals that improve your team is what you judge a GM on, and doubly so if he does it without including valuable assets.

We wouldn’t have had to make the deal had we not bothered signing/qualifying idiots like ZAR, McGinn and Simon in the first place.

So when Hextall does something good he gets no credit, and when does something neutral like signing CDS he gets shit on. Got it.

When he does well, like acquire Carter, he screws it up with a dumb extension.

The Rakell trade was solid, it cleared out a lot of garbage (that he signed) for a minimal price.

 

[Pens x]

How else are you supposed to judge someone? You compare them to their peers.

Then let’s start comparing him to his competent peers instead of a guy with early dementia. We seem to only compare him to the worst GM’s in the league.

Let’s start comparing him to Sakic and Stevie Y…