Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap: Free Agency, everyone panic!!! Geno talk to the Geno thread only please

[Zirakzigil]

Off season time. New thread time apparently cause @Ugene Magic doesn’t like high page counts.

So how about them Malkin and Letang UFAs? Maybe we should sign one or both.

Geno thread. Keep Geno talk here:

Rumor: - Geno where art thou?

With all the Geno rumors and news, time for its own thread. Keep the Geno talk here please.

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[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm not a big fan of four years for him unless the money is great, but three is completely fair and he will easily get that on the market, with a much higher AAV than what the Pens are offering. They need to pony up as well. Stars of that caliber get treated a little differently, even when they are older. It's not like Hextall is running some type of cut throat business operation here. Nice job on that Carter deal.

I know it gets griped about a lot for a like 3M dollar contract but... right?

I love that all these suddenly stoic, cutthroat "it's a business" fans don't have much to say about dude locking in his buddy with full no trade clauses halfway through the season last year... a guy that's older and worse than Malkin. "Oh it's just 3M dollars" -- sure... and people smarter than me are already talking about how he needs to have his minutes cut from what are already 3rd line minutes to be useful. Neat.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The commentary about the fan base turning on him doesn’t really matter. Malkin’s an elite player, future hall of famer, and this team would not have won 3 Cups without him. He’s done more than earn the right to stay here until he retires. And while he has been injured often, when he is playing, he’s still a top player in this league.

Of course it matters - Malkin seems to be a sensitive guy.

You think he won’t feel it when the fans turn on him?

It is always a sad sight to see a legendary player trying to hang on to his past glory.

Again, Steeler fans just saw this with Roth and it wasn’t pretty. Both the on field stuff and seeing the fans turn on him.

Malkin is being offered a fair deal for what he’s worth NOW.

He may be a point per game guy that’s obviously slowing down, but he isn’t putting up 82 points anymore because he plays in 50+ games.

So he’s more of a 50-60 point player based on how healthy he is each season.

That is being fairly reflected in his offer.

He’s not used to being told no his whole life so I’m sure it’s rough and his feelings are hurt - but that’s life and Father Time remains undefeated.

Hextall knows that and props to him for not rewarding past accomplishments. That’s how teams get albatross contracts.

He and many Pens fans can’t seem to accept that because nostalgia is a hard drug to ween one self from.

And this Carter whataboutism is an odd hill to die on for some around here.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I don't think any of us should be talking shit about nostalgia considering we've been here for almost two decades.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Of course it matters - Malkin seems to be a sensitive guy.

You think he won’t feel it when the fans turn on him?

It is always a sad sight to see a legendary player trying to hang on to his past glory.

Again, Steeler fans just saw this with Roth and it wasn’t pretty. Both the on field stuff and seeing the fans turn on him.

Malkin is being offered a fair deal for what he’s worth NOW.

He may be a point per game guy that’s obviously slowing down, but he isn’t putting up 82 points anymore because he plays in 50+ games.

So he’s more of a 50-60 point player based on how healthy he is each season.

That is being fairly reflected in his offer.

He’s not used to being told no his whole life so I’m sure it’s rough and his feelings are hurt - but that’s life and Father Time remains undefeated.

Hextall knows that and props to him for not rewarding past accomplishments. That’s how teams get albatross contracts.

He and many Pens fans can’t seem to accept that because nostalgia is a hard drug to ween one self from.

That all of this is being said in light of the Carter deal just means I can't take the underlying assumptions seriously. Malkin's not trying to hang onto past glory, he's still an elite talent. Surround him with Crosby's wings and we aren't having this conversation. That should be fairly reflected in his offer too, but it isn't.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

Fair enough. He's a slick player no doubt... great hands and really shifty. I loved him with Sid (which they almost certainly won't reprise). But he still seems more of a facilitator, if that makes sense. I'd love the team to have a Jake for the second line... someone who can put the puck in the net when they get quality looks. That was the big big issue on L2 last season.

I think that’s a fair analysis. We haven’t had third a guy who can create opportunities with their skillset since Kessel left. And Kessel could both create opportunities and finish.
Rakell can certainly shoot and has the skillset to play with Malkin & Crosby, but he’s not going to drive offense at Kessel’s level. The problem there is you’re going to pay a lot in FA for someone like that, and I’d rather retool this defense that has been stale for years.

Stop making excuses for #71. Its pathetic. If he's really at 7+ million player he'd be better 5 on 5 and make players around him better.

Does this fanbase actually watch the games? I mean you don't need season tickets to do so. Although in person you can see the whole ice. Especially from row a.

Malkin literally still does both of those things at an elite level.

 

[Pens x]

Looking at things in a vacuum without any context or frame of reference will often result in flawed evaluations.

Check Ville Husso's numbers from last year - including the playoffs - and what he just signed for. That's the goalie market in 2022.

The goalie market was flooded with options last summer and he did nothing. Let’s not pretend he had any intention of upgrading DeSmith regardless of who was available.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

We wouldn’t have had to make the deal had we not bothered signing/qualifying idiots like ZAR, McGinn and Simon in the first place.

Huh?

The goalie market was flooded with options last summer and he did nothing. Let’s not pretend he had any intention of upgrading DeSmith regardless of who was available.

Who were you advocating for at the time, and where are the receipts?

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

Of course it matters - Malkin seems to be a sensitive guy.

You think he won’t feel it when the fans turn on him?

It is always a sad sight to see a legendary player trying to hang on to his past glory.

Again, Steeler fans just saw this with Roth and it wasn’t pretty. Both the on field stuff and seeing the fans turn on him.

Malkin is being offered a fair deal for what he’s worth NOW.

He may be a point per game guy that’s obviously slowing down, but he isn’t putting up 82 points anymore because he plays in 50+ games.

So he’s more of a 50-60 point player based on how healthy he is each season.

That is being fairly reflected in his offer.

He’s not used to being told no his whole life so I’m sure it’s rough and his feelings are hurt - but that’s life and Father Time remains undefeated.

Hextall knows that and props to him for not rewarding past accomplishments. That’s how teams get albatross contracts.

He and many Pens fans can’t seem to accept that because nostalgia is a hard drug to ween one self from.

And this Carter whataboutism is an odd hill to die on for some around here.

Malkin finishing his career here isn’t about nostalgia. It’s about giving our core who has created so much opportunity for this franchise the chance to finish together, on the Penguins, the way they started. And frankly, you aren’t going to find better options on the market and you’ll be paying out way worse contracts.

Talking about Malkin being sensitive to what a minority of the fanbase might do or say is some Rob Rossi shit that again really doesn’t matter.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I know it gets griped about a lot for a like 3M dollar contract but... right?

I love that all these suddenly stoic, cutthroat "it's a business" fans don't have much to say about dude locking in his buddy with full no trade clauses halfway through the season last year... a guy that's older and worse than Malkin. "Oh it's just 3M dollars" -- sure... and people smarter than me are already talking about how he needs to have his minutes cut from what are already 3rd line minutes to be useful. Neat.

Not to mention the contract was made deliberately to be as immobile and team-unfriendly as possible. Like that contract is everything people claimed to be afraid of with a supposed Malkin deal.

But no.... 3C! ::jerking off motion intensifies::

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Bleh. Time for the weekend to start. This thread is like reading a bunch of hideous, basement-dwelling neckbeards dunk on celebs they wouldn't bang.

 

[IcedCapp]

Even if you disagree with jiggy, you have to understand that his view is how THIS management is approaching the situation.

I’d give malkin 4, because I don’t care about the money and I don’t care about the two years immediately following the retirement of this core.

It’s quite possible an NHL GM fails to share my progressive, 5head ideals

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

That's a lot of recency bias for Letang. It was only a couple seasons ago that many wanted him out of town for killing us in key games with insanely risky plays and irresponsible decisions, not to mention he has major injury history behind him, including an extremely risky stroke issue.

Not sure it's 100% fair to say Malkin is slowing down after the season where he came back midway through after major knee surgery. Sure, he's not 25 anymore but hardly a museum piece.

I'm not a big fan of four years for him unless the money is great, but three is completely fair and he will easily get that on the market, with a much higher AAV than what the Pens are offering. They need to pony up as well. Stars of that caliber get treated a little differently, even when they are older. It's not like Hextall is running some type of cut throat business operation here. Nice job on that Carter deal.

Letang has always been a potato head, but so has Malkin.

The difference is one has lost his wheels and the other hasn’t.

That makes a major difference.

People just don’t want to accept that reality.

The Carter whataboutism still boggles my mind.

Carter was offered a fair deal and took it.

Malkin is being offered a fair deal and he’s waxing poetic about his past accomplishments.

It’s not hard to see the key differences between Letangs deal and why Carter is signed.

Again, really odd hill to die on when trying to defend Malkin.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

None of the players people here talk about as Malkin replacements are anywhere near as good as Malkin, nor will they be for the next couple years.

That's really the only calculation that needs to be considered here. Malkin gets injured regularly but he still contributes more than the likes of Trocheck and Kadri, and it ain't close.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Letang has always been a potato head, but so has Malkin.

The difference is one has lost his wheels and the other hasn’t.

That makes a major difference.

People just don’t want to accept that reality.

The Carter whataboutism still boggles my mind.

Carter was offered a fair deal and took it.

Malkin is being offered a fair deal and he’s waxing poetic about his last accomplishments.

It’s not hard to see the key differences between Letangs deal and why Carter is signed.

Again, really odd hill to die in when trying to defend Malkin.

Why are we so sure Malkin has lost his wheels? Let's give him a solid off season where he isn't coming back from his second major knee surgery at 35.

It's not Carter whataboutism. It's that all the analysis of realistic business mindsets and albatross contracts for old guys crumbles in the face of locking up your 37 year old bud from LA who slows down with every shift he plays. Ignore that if you like but it's staring everyone in the face. Malkin's a lot more capable than Carter and if the Pens don't think so he should walk in FA and sign with a contender. Neither side owes the other anything other than respect at this point, and I'm not seeing it from the Pens. No use talking to the media about it, just leave and pursue other options with teams that have more appreciation for what he can still offer. I would wager he has at least 2 very good seasons left, maybe three, especially if he is surrounded by better than the likes of Kapanen and Heinen, no offense.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Why are we so sure Malkin has lost his wheels? Let's give him a solid off season where he isn't coming back from his second major knee surgery at 35.

There's really nothing to support it beyond raw point totals which ignore his colossally shitty linemate situation, which when accounted for explains everything.

 

[Andy99]

Rakell doesn’t get a ton of credit for the amount of opportunities he creates with his dynamic skillset. He was immediately the 3rd most talented winger the Pens had in terms of stick skills when he was acquired, and was generating chances consistently.

he generates chances and does a lot of things well with his skill set and yet he’s not really a goal scorer…I won’t be upset if we sign Palat instead of Rakell…in fact I’d prefer it…I think Palat does the other Stuff equally well and is a better goal scorer and a proven PO performer..

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Even if you disagree with jiggy, you have to understand that his view is how THIS management is approaching the situation.

I’d give malkin 4, because I don’t care about the money and I don’t care about the two years immediately following the retirement of this core.

It’s quite possible an NHL GM fails to share my progressive, 5head ideals

Fine. I just need to know why they didn't approach the Jeff f***ing Carter situation the same way.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Lol the Carter deal is an objectively terrible contract. And that shouldn't even be a topic of debate, it was admitted by all involved that it was designed to be so that Carter would stay here for 2 seasons. I don't know how you can look at that contract and determine otherwise, outside of the usual 3C circle jerk that exists around here.

Like just own that and admit that sometimes GMs make hypocritcal nepotistic decisions. It's not the end of the world.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I don't think any of us should be talking shit about nostalgia considering we've been here for almost two decades.

Hextall doesn’t care about nostalgia, this board or how long we have been here.

I specifically warned you this was his stance way back Chi.

People can deal with that reality or not.

Maybe he becomes a softie at the midnight hour, if that helps ppl any I guess.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Lol the Carter deal is an objectively terrible contract. And that shouldn't even be a topic of debate, it was admitted by all involved that it was designed to be so that Carter would stay here for 2 seasons. I don't know how you can look at that contract and determine otherwise, outside of the usual 3C circle jerk that exists around here.

Like just own that and admit that sometimes GMs make hypocritcal nepotistic decisions. It's not the end of the world.

It's definitely not the end of the world, but it wasn't a mistake. It was very much an eyes wide open situation. And my reason for bringing it up it is in response to all this Machiavellian analysis about how cutthroat the Pens management is and how clear-eyed they are viewing the Malkin deal. Old stars and past glory and all that. Maybe Hextall isn't cutthroat, maybe he's just average with poor interpersonal skills.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Hextall doesn't want to pay Malkin what Malkin wants because Hextall has been the GM here for 2 years, and in those 2 years, Malkin has had 2 pretty poor and injury prone seasons.

People here want to pay Malkin what he wants to stay because people here have been closely paying attention to Malkin's whole career. Hextall is more hesitant because Malkin has missed like 50% of games in the last 2 years and hasn't played that great when healthy.

He's going to get signed, so I don't see the point of all of this hang wringing.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Hextall doesn’t care about nostalgia, this board or how long we have been here.

I specifically warned you this was his stance way back Chi.

People can deal with that reality or not.

Maybe he becomes a softie at the midnight hour, if that helps ppl any I guess.

Why do I care about Hextall and this? Is this supposed to make me impressed that he's an idiot 80s businessman caricature?

Look man, if I want to deal with harsh reality, I'll go talk to some Ukrainian refugees that live on my block. This is just hocket.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Lol the Carter deal is an objectively terrible contract. And that shouldn't even be a topic of debate, it was admitted by all involved that it was designed to be so that Carter would stay here for 2 seasons. I don't know how you can look at that contract and determine otherwise, outside of the usual 3C circle jerk that exists around here.

Like just own that and admit that sometimes GMs make hypocritcal nepotistic decisions. It's not the end of the world.

Carter was offered a fair deal and took it.

Malkin has been offered a fair deal and doesn’t want to take it.

Again, maybe Hextall becomes Mr Soft spot.

I know people being told mgmt’s stance gets many around here all riled up.

 

[IcedCapp]

Fine. I just need to know why they didn't approach the Jeff f***ing Carter situation the same way.

Almost certainly a dumb mistake made out of fear and desperation when both of his top six centres were dead and carter was performing well

 

[HandshakeLine]

Carter was offered a fair deal and took it.

Malkin has been offered a fair deal and doesn’t want to take it.

Again, maybe Hextall becomes Mr Soft spot.

I know people being told mgmt’s stance gets many around here all riled up.

Do tell me what was so fair about giving a GM giving their team the worst possible leverage to sign a friend who they have connections with from a previous gig?

Like what is this great deal we supposedly got?