Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap: Free Agency, everyone panic!!! Geno talk to the Geno thread only please

[Zirakzigil]

Off season time. New thread time apparently cause @Ugene Magic doesn’t like high page counts.

So how about them Malkin and Letang UFAs? Maybe we should sign one or both.

Geno thread. Keep Geno talk here:

Rumor: - Geno where art thou?

With all the Geno rumors and news, time for its own thread. Keep the Geno talk here please.

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[Pittsburgh1776]

Hextall doesn't want to pay Malkin what Malkin wants because Hextall has been the GM here for 2 years, and in those 2 years, Malkin has had 2 pretty poor and injury prone seasons.

People here want to pay Malkin what he wants to stay because people here have been closely paying attention to Malkin's whole career. Hextall is more hesitant because Malkin has missed like 50% of games in the last 2 years and hasn't played that great when healthy.

He's going to get signed, so I don't see the point of all of this hang wringing.

If Hextall is only capable of using two years of direct observation in making a franchise-altering decision while discounting the previous 14, he probably shouldn't be an NHL GM.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Why do I care about Hextall and this? Is this supposed to make me impressed that he's an idiot 80s businessman caricature?

Look man, if I want to deal with harsh reality, I'll go talk to some Ukrainian refugees that live on my block. This is just hocket.

Because Hextall is the one holding the cards.

I could make some corny jokes and what not, but this has been his stance for almost a year.

I warned you and others about this way back bro.

Again, he may give in.. maybe Malkin will.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mean, I think Carter was totally smart by signing an extremely lopsided deal in his favor, but that doesn't mean it was a smart business decision on Hextall's part or anything.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

he generates chances and does a lot of things well with his skill set and yet he’s not really a goal scorer…I won’t be upset if we sign Palat instead of Rakell…in fact I’d prefer it…I think Palat does the other Stuff equally well and is a better goal scorer and a proven PO performer..

I don’t think you’re going wrong with either of Rakell or Palat. But I do think Palat is going to cost more, and he’s benefitted from playing with a pretty stacked lineup, whereas Rakell has played with a bad Anaheim team for a while. In the end, I prefer Rakell’s skillset and I believe he has a higher ceiling than Palat. Plus he’ll get paid less.

 

[Andy99]

What I don’t get re Carter/Malkin …

Carter is 2 years older than Geno and he gets a 2 year deal…

yet the team balks at giving Geno a 4 year deal to keep the cap hit down? Makes no sense….

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Do tell me what was so fair about giving a GM giving their team the worst possible leverage to sign a friend who they have connections with from a previous gig?

Like what is this great deal we supposedly got?

I dunno, maybe Hextall is a mole cuz.

This is a Wendy’s.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I still fundamentally can't see how Carter's contract is "terrible". He's paid $3 million a year and put up about a 20 goal, 50 point pace last year.

Pettersson and Zucker have way bigger problematic contracts than Carter's contract.

If Hextall is only capable of using two years of direct observation in making a franchise-altering decision while discounting the previous 14, he probably shouldn't be an NHL GM.

If Hextall wants to make roster decisions for the future based on what Malkin did 3+ years ago, he probably shouldn't be a GM.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Because Hextall is the one holding the cards.

I could make some corny jokes and what not, but this has been his stance for almost a year.

I warned you and others about this way back bro.

Again, he may give in.. maybe Malkin will.

My dude, this doesn't even mean anything. Holding what cards? They're doing normal negotiations. It's basically all posturing for the media, people are just annoyed because they didn't do this dumb circus for the worse players they signed.

Like why is this some sort of Versailles Accords-esque peace negotiation in peoples' minds here?

Also, why am I supposed to care of my GM is the kind of ruthless monster you seem to want him as? Does that make him better or are you just mad that athletes want their share, but not too much? Give me a window because I cannot follow your logic at all, because you apparently mentioned something about this a year ago and nobody listened? Like really, Jiggy, I'm having trouble parsing you here, my dude, for real.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

I still fundamentally can't see how Carter's contract is "terrible". He's paid $3 million a year and put up about a 20 goal, 50 point pace last year.

Pettersson and Zucker have way bigger problematic contracts than Carter's contract.



If Hextall wants to make roster decisions for the future based on what Malkin did 3+ years ago, he probably shouldn't be a GM.

When you make a decision of this magnitude you need to take the breadth of someone's career and circumstances into account, not just two seasons of what you've personally seen. Basic management decision-making at this high of a level.

 

[Andy99]

I don’t think you’re going wrong with either of Rakell or Palat. But I do think Palat is going to cost more, and he’s benefitted from playing with a pretty stacked lineup, whereas Rakell has played with a bad Anaheim team for a while. In the end, I prefer Rakell’s skillset and I believe he has a higher ceiling than Palat. Plus he’ll get paid less.

I dont think the cost difference is going to be substantial when you factor in that Rakell is younger and will probably be signed for more years… I like them both but I like Palat’s body of work in the playoffs more…

 

[Pens x]

Huh?


Who were you advocating for at the time, and where are the receipts?

Oh man, there are plenty to choose from. One post I did find from myself last summer was:

I’m just glad Hextall found all of these turd fourth line players because they will be getting a lot of playing time after Rags’ games, when half of the team will get injured. But we will lose the right way!

 

[Empoleon8771]

When you make a decision of this magnitude you need to take the breath of someone's career and circumstances into account, not just two seasons of what you've personally seen. Basic management decision-making at this high of a level.

Why? Because you want to keep Malkin?

A GM making roster decisions based on what he personally has seen, over a decently large sample size, is EXACTLY what a GM should be doing. A GM should absolutely not be keeping players based solely on nostalgia and what a player did years ago.

I want to keep Malkin, especially if he's willing to do that 6x4 contract, because you're not going to get better value than Malkin at that price. But acting like Hextall should just completely ignore how Malkin has done with him as the GM, and instead look back 3+ years at what Malkin used to be, is downright stupid. It's nothing but nostalgia and wanting to keep a player because you like him. Hextall's position is completely justified in these negotiations because Malkin has been insanely injury prone with Hextall as GM.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

Even if you disagree with jiggy, you have to understand that his view is how THIS management is approaching the situation.

I’d give malkin 4, because I don’t care about the money and I don’t care about the two years immediately following the retirement of this core.

It’s quite possible an NHL GM fails to share my progressive, 5head ideals

That’s fine and probably has more than an element of truth to it, but talking about how Geno might emotionally respond to a few fans just seems like some added, irrelevant narrative. And to say Malkin has lost a step is true, but he’s still having a positive impact every time he steps on the ice. It’s not like he isn’t earning his pay out there.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I still fundamentally can't see how Carter's contract is "terrible". He's paid $3 million a year and put up about a 20 goal, 50 point pace last year.

The main thing with the Carter deal isn't that it's an unfair offer per se, it's just extremely in Carter's favor because it's poison pill'd to make sure the team cannot trade him or buy him out. Both Carter's agent and the team talked about that.

So, on the one hand, it's an okay, if not particularly discount deal for a 37 year old 3C. On the other hand, if Carter does not get less usage and have his minutes managed or sees any sort of drop off, it's going to be a boat anchor for a year.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Why? Because you want to keep Malkin?

A GM making roster decisions based on what he personally has seen, over a decently large sample size, is EXACTLY what a GM should be doing. A GM should absolutely not be keeping players based solely on nostalgia and what a player did years ago.

I want to keep Malkin, especially if he's willing to do that 6x4 contract, because you're not going to get better value than Malkin at that price. But acting like Hextall should just completely ignore how Malkin has done with him as the GM, and instead look back 3+ years at what Malkin used to be, is downright stupid.

I want to keep Malkin for hockey and sentimental reasons (he's the best player available at the cheapest price, and he's a legend), but I also think he should consider walking to pursue other options.

I never said Hextall should ignore the two years he has seen, just that he needs to be able to look at the entirety of someone's work, as well as things like linemates and usage, before making a decision that will change the course of this franchise.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Lol the Carter deal is an objectively terrible contract. And that shouldn't even be a topic of debate, it was admitted by all involved that it was designed to be so that Carter would stay here for 2 seasons. I don't know how you can look at that contract and determine otherwise, outside of the usual 3C circle jerk that exists around here.

Like just own that and admit that sometimes GMs make hypocritcal nepotistic decisions. It's not the end of the world.

People totally exaggerate how bad Carter was last season and how hurtful this deal is.
At worst he'll perform like ~1 mil under his cap.
It's so whatever to me.

And honestly, it's a little sad for me to see so much of the fan base turn on him so fast.
Many don't even cheer for him anymore. That's a shame, cuz he's a top notch dude.

Personally I will hope for him to rebound next year in a lighter role, with appropriate linemates.

 

[molon labe]

So some people are mad we haven't just given Geno "what he wants" ?

Honestly. Based on Genos' comments -that could be a ludicrous amount (8+ with term).

Carter came in at a great price. Rust came in at a great price. DeSmith came in at a great price. Letang came in at a great price. Malk....WAHHHHHHHHH@#$%@#

Chill the hell out. He's this place in the order for a reason. Yeah - he's a franchise icon. He's also incapable of putting up a full season and is absolutely nowhere near the 2C he was even 3 or 4 years ago. Based on everything - giving him 6-7 with a little term is being nice, not stubborn. More than that is being stupid and/or nostalgic.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I want to keep Malkin for hockey and sentimental reasons (he's the best player available at the cheapest price, and he's a legend), but I also think he should consider walking to pursue other options.

I never said Hextall should ignore the two years he has seen, just that he needs to be able to look at the entirety of someone's work, as well as things like linemates and usage, before making a decision that will change the course of this franchise.

The issue I see with this is that Malkin is just not what he was even 3 years ago anymore. Who knows, maybe he turns it around with a fully healthy off-season this year, but I don't see how Malkin's 2019-2020 has any relevance with him going forward. I think an optimistic expectation for him going forward is in the 60-70 point range per season after you account for injuries.

Like I've been saying all along, both sides should just agree to a fair deal here. The Penguins are apparently at 3 years and $6 million, while Malkin is at 4 years and $6 million. There is no reason you shouldn't be able to find a middle ground there, which is why I'm expecting a contract with him to be sorted out sometime within the next few days.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

People totally exaggerate how bad Carter was last season and how hurtful this deal is.
At worst he'll perform like ~1 mil under his cap.
It's so whatever to me.

And honestly, it's a little sad for me to see so much of the fan base turn on him so fast.
Many don't even cheer for him anymore. That's a shame, cuz he's a top notch dude.

Personally I will hope for him to rebound next year in a lighter role, with appropriate linemates.

Carter went more than a month without being a plus player, and he completely tanked his line in the playoffs. He is what he is, and he will need a much lighter role to be an effective C.

 

[vodeni]

Hextall doesn't want to pay Malkin what Malkin wants because Hextall has been the GM here for 2 years, and in those 2 years, Malkin has had 2 pretty poor and injury prone seasons.

People here want to pay Malkin what he wants to stay because people here have been closely paying attention to Malkin's whole career. Hextall is more hesitant because Malkin has missed like 50% of games in the last 2 years and hasn't played that great when healthy.

He's going to get signed, so I don't see the point of all of this hang wringing.

100% Thank you. Everything else here is just projection of our own biases and insecurities

 

[dogthateats]

What happened to everything that Rossi posts is made up bullshit? lol

 

[HandshakeLine]

People totally exaggerate how bad Carter was last season and how hurtful this deal is.
At worst he'll perform like ~1 mil under his cap.
It's so whatever to me.

And honestly, it's a little sad for me to see so much of the fan base turn on him so fast.
Many don't even cheer for him anymore. That's a shame, cuz he's a top notch dude.

Personally I will hope for him to rebound next year in a lighter role, with appropriate linemates.

I mean, we have people claiming that if we pay Malkin $5.5 million it's a rip off because the guy's only going to put up 55-60 points in a hypothetical 60 games or something. Fans aren't looking at anything objectively, and that's never more obvious than when this board gets its knickers in a twist about contracts and fair value.

I have all the hope in the world that Carter will rebound in a sensible 3rd line wing role for 2 years. I'm also cynical as all hell and I doubt that's going to happen.

I also personally find Carter terrible to watch and I'm bored as shit with our subpar bottom 6, so I find it weird that we love keeping that mess together here.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

The issue I see with this is that Malkin is just not what he was even 3 years ago anymore. Who knows, maybe he turns it around with a fully healthy off-season this year, but I don't see how Malkin's 2019-2020 has any relevance with him going forward. I think an optimistic expectation for him going forward is in the 60-70 point range per season after you account for injuries.

Like I've been saying all along, both sides should just agree to a fair deal here. The Penguins are apparently at 3 years and $6 million, while Malkin is at 4 years and $6 million. There is no reason you shouldn't be able to find a middle ground there, which is why I'm expecting a contract with him to be sorted out sometime within the next few days.

There isn't a reason, and I think you will see 3x7 if a deal gets done. But like Handshake said, I'm disappointed at the circus aspect of this and why it seems like we are wringing every last cent out of a Hall of Fame legend while handing out deals to the likes of Carter and others. It isn't a good look, and for a player as proud as Malkin it will create some bad feelings. I wouldn't take it as a given that he won't test FA.

 

[Josey Wales]

Malkin Getting Edgy.​

I encourage everyone to read the latest Athletic Article by Rob Rossi about Malkin. He is pretty much devastated that the Penguins aren’t stepping up more. The Penguins are trying to move Cap space to up the offer on a three year deal.
Source: Eklund
Dwayne Heith Klessel Ladies & Germs

 

[chethejet]

If Malkin can be signed for a OK AAV really what choices do they have, Now I am in a minority by going after Vinne T and Malkin who I see as a risk as to his availability at his age and history. But Hextall complains about cap space as he is the one who gave away 3 million to a player who can't play 15 minutes a game now. You could have Vinnie T for 2 million more at age 29. Rust is a good AAV but that doesn't mean he will be that RW playing without a franchise center.

So you have Malkin at 6 maybe 7 and going after Rakell at say 4.5. To me Vinnie at 5 and Rakell at 4.5 fits the 3 year compete narrative better and cheaper. Vinnie isn't in decline.....Malkin is. Zucker can be moved but with one year left maybe the Craig Patrick players on the last year play hard for the next deal. the unknowns are DOC and perhaps Zahorna. Both can play LW and move Zucker with a retain of 1 million may be enough to move him.