Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap: Free Agency, everyone panic!!! Geno talk to the Geno thread only please

[Zirakzigil]

Off season time. New thread time apparently cause @Ugene Magic doesn’t like high page counts.

So how about them Malkin and Letang UFAs? Maybe we should sign one or both.

Geno thread. Keep Geno talk here:

Rumor: - Geno where art thou?

With all the Geno rumors and news, time for its own thread. Keep the Geno talk here please.

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[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Rossi is a boob. But then again a bunch of pretty important Penguins players (and the coach) have come forward to advocate for Malkin lately so there is probably some nuggets of truth to that (rather poorly written) article. On one hand Malkin should probably put on his big boy pants and realize it's a negotiation, he's old and the team can't just ignore that he hasn't been healthy for like a decade. On the other I would probably feel the same way Rossi is claiming he does, too. I wonder who the longtime current teammate is that said it bugs him how this has gone down? Perhaps imaginary knowing Rob Rossi.

If it's GOING to be wrapped up I hope it's soon.

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

If Rossi is saying Geno would do 4 x 6m - iirc the article said would - I'll treat that as gospel. There's a path, let's get this done.

Rossi also said the Pens then offered $6 mil at three years to which Geno refused. There is sort of a part of me that thinks…is that one year really going to make it or break it for both sides? If Geno so badly wants to be in Pittsburgh, are you going to let one year make it so that you don’t return? On the other hand, if Hextall wants Geno back for three years, is one year going to make a difference when you already have Letang locked up for six?

 

[orby]

If Malkin will be back - and it sounds like he will be - the Pens need to seriously look into converting him to wing and bringing in a younger 2C. I like Blueger but he ain't it, and all the other centers in the organization are either in their mid to late 30s or unproven B level prospects. Someone here (weeks ago) mentioned the idea of bringing in Trocheck in addition to Malkin rather than as a replacement...something like that makes sense to me if the money is right.

 

[ColePens]

I'd follow you and Cole anywhere (hockey related).

Come follow @Honour Over Glory and I as we dress up and rock the night scene. Just don't complain when it's 4am and HoG is fighting someone because they stepped on his loafer.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Rossi also said the Pens then offered $6 mil at three years to which Geno refused. There is sort of a part of me that thinks…is that one year really going to make it or break it for both sides? If Geno so badly wants to be in Pittsburgh, are you going to let one year make it so that you don’t return? On the other hand, if Hextall wants Geno back for three years, is one year going to make a difference when you already have Letang locked up for six?

It sounds like the team only really wants him back for two years and considers their extra year offered a concession. I agree that if he wants a fourth year just give him the damned fourth year... they just signed Letang forever. But the team seems to think they're already going out on a limb with three.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

I think this is just a dramatic way of saying that “powerful” people are pushing for the deal to come together now that they’re likely only that one year apart. It was never as far apart in reality as the leaks made it seem, it was just negotiating.

Nah, it's not. It isn't just negotiating. You don't nickle and dime and haggle over bullshit until the last moment with a player who has done what Malkin has for this team. I don't really care what people's opinions on it are, and I fully recognize that a deal is still possible and maybe likely. But there will be bad blood now because of how this went down, and none of it was necessary. There should be a baseline level of respect for this player's accomplishments and commitment to the team over the last 16 years of success. I care about the team getting a good deal, but I also care about not treating Evgeni Malkin like he's some run of the mill guy about to head into the nursing home. Embarrassing stuff from a mediocre manager.

People can also say whatever about Rossi. Yeah he's slimy and a melodramatic booby. Doesn't change going weeks between offers and putting your Hall of Fame center on ice while you lock up Jeff Carter and Casey DeSmith.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Forsberg is going to cost nearly double what Zucker is making.

This team would never be able to afford Forsberg.

I bet the difference between Zucker and Forsberg will be around 3 mil - about the difference between Pettersson and POJ, and probably what Kapanen makes on his next deal.

But no, the Pens could never possibly afford Forsberg. There's just no fat on this roster to trim.

And none of this even touches on Palat, whose per annum will probably be within spitting distance of Zucker's despite being twice the player who can actually play with talent.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Looks like Hexy's got the right idea, he just needs to become open to a negative value trade with Zucker to get things done.

 

[Pens x]

I bet the difference between Zucker and Forsberg will be around 3 mil - about the difference between Pettersson and POJ, and probably what Kapanen makes on his next deal.

But no, the Pens could never possibly afford Forsberg. There's just no fat on this roster to trim.

And none of this even touches on Palat, whose per annum will probably be within spitting distance of Zucker's despite being twice the player who can actually play with talent.

Agreed. The kool aid gang will just throw their hands up in the air saying nothing can be done for cap reasons, but there are ways to create cap room. You might have to trade draft picks to sweeten deals. Hell, sleepy gave LA two picks for Carter and a second for Rakell.

It’ll require sleepy to be proactive and not be asleep at the wheel.

 

[Power Surge]

Agreed. The kool aid gang will just throw their hands up in the air saying nothing can be done for cap reasons, but there are ways to create cap room. You might have to trade draft picks to sweeten deals. Hell, sleepy gave LA two picks for Carter and a second for Rakell.

It’ll require sleepy to be proactive and not be asleep at the wheel.

No one seems to want to take any of our garbage.

Which flavor would you like?

 

[bigdaddyk88]

It sounds like the team only really wants him back for two years and considers their extra year offered a concession. I agree that if he wants a fourth year just give him the damned fourth year... they just signed Letang forever. But the team seems to think they're already going out on a limb with three.

If he wants to finish his career with Crosby that’s 3 years so I don’t think the team will hold this up for 2 years. I would give 4 if it makes him happy

 

[Pens x]

No one seems to want to take any of our garbage.

Which flavor would you like?

You don’t think Pettersson and a second or third has any value? I’m sorry, but I think Dumo could be moved easily.

It’s not like I’m saying to trade Zucker for anything of value.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

If he wants to finish his career with Crosby that’s 3 years so I don’t think the team will hold this up for 2 years. I would give 4 if it makes him happy

Agreed. Though I tend to agree with the line of thinking that Crosby will play beyond his current contract.

Regardless I understand negotiations can be sticky. But if the article is true I can't blame Malkin for being sour. A lot of this does strike me as a bit unseemly. Especially if the rumored numbers/years are accurate throughout the process.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

No one seems to want to take any of our garbage.

Which flavor would you like?

Our GM needs to be willing to sweeten deals to move our garbage, for the greater good.

Extremely unlikely that anyone's going to move valuable assets for the likes of Zucker.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Our GM needs to be willing to sweeten deals to move our garbage, for the greater good.

Extremely unlikely that anyone's going to move valuable assets for the likes of Zucker.

Nonsense. This core has YEARS of contention left in it! There's no real rush.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

The team was always banking on his desire to stay with one organization and his loyalty to Crosby to result in him caving on negotiations at the last minute. I think that's still probably going to happen and it's a smart business move, but Malkin has always been different than your average cat. Loyalty and respect mean a hell of a lot to him and I wouldn't be surprised to see him test FA at the very least if he thinks the Penguins don't really want him around. Yeah, I get 'we want you but at our price and term' but right now both of those are very low compared to his market value.

I still think 3x7 is where the team should land, we'll see if it gets done. But I'm not impressed with how this has gone down and I don't blame Malkin for thinking he's been taken for granted for a while now. There's some truth to it.

 

[Pens x]

Our GM needs to be willing to sweeten deals to move our garbage, for the greater good.

Extremely unlikely that anyone's going to move valuable assets for the likes of Zucker.

Apparently, our top pairing dman making only $4.1 mil in cap has no value. Though, I suspect he’d be a #3 on many teams.

 

[Power Surge]

Our GM needs to be willing to sweeten deals to move our garbage, for the greater good.

Extremely unlikely that anyone's going to move valuable assets for the likes of Zucker.

Hextall doesnt like trading picks. So...

Though with 1 year left we shouldnt have to add to trade Zucker. One would think but who knows maybe no one wants him (at least now anyway)

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Nah, it's not. It isn't just negotiating. You don't nickle and dime and haggle over bullshit until the last moment with a player who has done what Malkin has for this team. I don't really care what people's opinions on it are, and I fully recognize that a deal is still possible and maybe likely. But there will be bad blood now because of how this went down, and none of it was necessary. There should be a baseline level of respect for this player's accomplishments and commitment to the team over the last 16 years of success. I care about the team getting a good deal, but I also care about not treating Evgeni Malkin like he's some run of the mill guy about to head into the nursing home. Embarrassing stuff from a mediocre manager.

People can also say whatever about Rossi. Yeah he's slimy and a melodramatic booby. Doesn't change going weeks between offers and putting your Hall of Fame center on ice while you lock up Jeff Carter and Casey DeSmith.

Malkin was compensated quite well by the Pens org for his past accomplishments.

Many star players can’t accept their skills are diminishing and they get butt hurt in contract negotiations toward the end of their careers as they age out.

Happened with other Pgh sports icons like Franco Harris, Polamalu, and now most recently Ben Roethlisberger. Ben had to take a big pay cut to stay and he’s still butt hurt and takes subtle shots how his “coach and owner didn’t want him anymore”.

Malkin needs to accept his injury prone body is a big risk for the org and that’s how the sports business works.

 

[Pens x]

Hextall doesnt like trading picks. So...

Though with 1 year left we shouldnt have to add to trade Zucker. One would think but who knows maybe no one wants him (at least now anyway)

Except, he’s traded a 2nd, 3rd and 4th so far in his unimpressive time here.

He needs to fight for his job. He’s definitely on probation and needs to prove to FSG he isn’t a waste of space, which is all he has been thus far. This team has to make it out of the first round or he’s a goner. He already made the poor decision of retaining DeSmith. Sitting on his hands, doing the absolute minimum, won’t fly forever.

Do you think any other team would give this guy a third shot after FSG cans him next spring. He’d have to go back to being a part-time advisor for the kings yet again.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Malkin was compensated quite well by the Pens org for his past accomplishments.

Many star players can’t accept their skills are diminishing and they get butt hurt in contract negotiations toward the end of their careers as they age out.

Happened with other Pgh sports icons like Franco Harris, Polamalu, and now most recently Ben Roethlisberger. Ben had to take a big pay cut to stay and he’s still butt hurt and takes subtle shots how his “coach and owner didn’t want him anymore”.

Malkin needs to accept his injury prone body is a big risk for the org and that’s how the sports business works.

2x6 isn't a realistic offer for a player of Malkin's current skills, injury prone or not. Letang and Crosby have also had their significant struggles with injury as I recall. I don't think this is a simple case of a star getting butthurt over aging out, although I'm sure that's some part of it. I would like to think a deal gets done at 3x7 or near it.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

He needs to fight for his job. He’s definitely on probation and needs to prove to FSG he isn’t a waste of space, which is all he has been thus far. This team has to make it out of the first round or he’s a goner. He already made the poor decision of retaining DeSmith. Sitting on his hands, doing the absolute minimum, won’t fly forever.

Saying stuff like this about a guy who has made a number of very good moves for the Pens really undermines a lot of what you try to say.

This summer alone, he found a way to retain Rust and Letang through the rest of the core's contending years at cap hits nobody was projecting the Pens to get them at. Getting twisted about DeSmith doesn't change that.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I dunno. Maybe I'm just some stupid Malkin stan or whatever but I don't ever want that dude prostrating himself in front of a bunch of empty suits to declare himself a brokedown old tractor and to please give him whatever crumbs they are willing to please and thank you.

Pride and confidence are a huge part of what make top guys top guys. Of course there are certain realities with Malkin at this stage but regardless of some truly hilarious running commentaries this offseason the guy can and will absolutely still play at a high level.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Hextall doesnt like trading picks. So...

Though with 1 year left we shouldnt have to add to trade Zucker. One would think but who knows maybe no one wants him (at least now anyway)

We all have to do things we don't like in order to get other things done.

This isn't a team that should be prioritizing the future over the present, and Zucker's contract gums up the works.

I dunno. Maybe I'm just some stupid Malkin stan or whatever but I don't ever want that dude prostrating himself in front of a bunch of empty suits to declare himself a brokedown old tractor and to please give him whatever crumbs they are willing to please and thank you.

Pride and confidence are a huge part of what make top guys top guys. Of course there are certain realities with Malkin at this stage but regardless of some truly hilarious running commentaries this offseason the guy can and will absolutely still play at a high level.

The truth is that Malkin has been let down by the team's disinterest in giving him proper support.

The eye test and and the underlying numbers all support this. He's expected to be the turd polisher extraordinaire.

 

[Pens x]

Saying stuff like this about a guy who has made a number of very good moves for the Pens really undermines a lot of what you try to say.

This summer alone, he found a way to retain Rust and Letang through the rest of the core's contending years at cap hits nobody was projecting the Pens to get them at. Getting twisted about DeSmith doesn't change that.

Those deals don’t happen if Rust or Letang were greedy pricks. You all give Hextall credit for these signings, but the players could easily have gone to free agency if all they cared about is money. Hextall is fortunate that Letang cares about his legacy and Rust’s wife family lives near Pittsburgh or they’d be gone unless Sleepy overpaid.

At some point, re-signing players that were here before you were hired can’t be your best move entering your third season as GM.

I also think many of you have no memory and don’t realize how much he failed by retaining DeSmith.