Rumor: Pens and Canucks talking trade

[Peter Griffin]

Curious what the worst moves JR made for the Pens are according to Pens fans? To me it looks like his worst deals are where he dealt high picks/prospects for pieces he thought would help now.

 

[Empoleon8771]

beggars? ahah were the ones saying we dont want Kapanen. Its like youre begging Canucks to take him.

Marino is who would fit for what the Canucks need.

You say you want to get young talent that adds speed and doesn't add money while not being willing to trade substantial assets and only being willing to trade scraps like Myers, Pearson and Sutter.

That is absolutely being a choosing beggar. I'm saying Kapanen here because Kapanen makes sense with JR's track record.

 

[RSPens]

beggars? ahah were the ones saying we dont want Kapanen. Its like youre begging Canucks to take him.

Marino is who would fit for what the Canucks need.

And all you Nucks fans have been told that the Pens can't afford to trade Marino. He is the only NHL level RD that the Pens have signed after this season. He is as untradeable for the Pens as anyone else on the team.

 

[Peter Griffin]

2019: Canucks acquire Miller from Tampa Bay for Mazanec, a 1st and 2nd
2020: Penguins acquire Kapanen from Toronto for a 1st and Hallander
2021: Miller is worth Kapanen, a prospect, a 1st and a 2nd

Only on HFBoards

You do realize that Miller has become a consistent PPG player in Vancouver since he was acquired right? I don’t think his value is as high as the other poster suggested, but it’s definitely risen since Benning’s acquired him.

 

[UrbanImpact]

Damn it's pretty amazing that the Canucks have been so bad for years if this is how valuable their players are

If you seriously think Miller is worth that, there is no reasonable discussion to be had here.

yes i seriously think thats what Miller is worth. Maybe a bit less if the Canucks valued Kapanen.

3 months of Foligno got a 1st and 4th

Dvorak got a 1st and a 2nd. Dvorak under contract.

JT Miller absolutely trashes both those guys and is under contract next year as well at 5 mil. He has something like 148 pts in his last 151 games.

I'd say 1st 2nd Kapanen would definitely be fair value.

 

[Foppberg]

Pens have nothing that is enticing enough to Vancouver for them to give up Miller.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Curious what the worst moves JR made for the Pens are according to Pens fans? To me it looks like his worst deals are where he dealt high picks/prospects for pieces he thought would help now.

My rankings:

1. 1st and Sundqvist for Reaves and a 2nd. Beyond incomprehensible that he made this deal, especially considering Sullivan was absolutely not on board with the acquisition.
2. Reaves, Cole, Gustavsson, a 1st and 3rd for Brassard. It wasn't bad value at the time, but Brassard ended up a complete bust in Pittsburgh (as in he was actively hurting the team) and the trade was made even worse based on JR paying a 1st for Reaves.

That's really what happened with a lot of JR's moves in Pittsburgh. They weren't bad at the time (outside of the Reaves deal), but they aged horribly and JR spent even more assets to fix those trades.

You do realize that Miller has become a consistent PPG player in Vancouver since he was acquired right? I don’t think his value is as high as the other poster suggested, but it’s definitely risen since Benning’s acquired him.

Oh yeah Miller's value has definitely gone up, I wasn't suggesting otherwise. I was suggesting that you'd need to add a 1st, 2nd and a prospect on top of Kapanen for Miller is just pure insanity.

You'd have to add on top of Kapanen for Miller because Miller has gotten better with Vancouver.

 

[Peter Griffin]

My rankings:

1. 1st and Sundqvist for Reaves and a 2nd. Beyond incomprehensible that he made this deal, especially considering Sullivan was absolutely not on board with the acquisition.
2. Reaves, Cole, Gustavsson, a 1st and 3rd for Brassard. It wasn't bad value at the time, but Brassard ended up a complete bust in Pittsburgh (as in he was actively hurting the team) and the trade was made even worse based on JR paying a 1st for Reaves.

That's really what happened with a lot of JR's moves in Pittsburgh. They weren't bad at the time (outside of the Reaves deal), but they aged horribly and JR spent even more assets to fix those trades.

So he dealt high picks for win now pieces. He won’t be doing that in Vancouver.

 

[Empoleon8771]

yes i seriously think thats what Miller is worth. Maybe a bit less if the Canucks valued Kapanen.

3 months of Foligno got a 1st and 4th

Dvorak got a 1st and a 2nd. Dvorak under contract.

JT Miller absolutely trashes both those guys and is under contract next year as well at 5 mil. He has something like 148 pts in his last 151 games.

I'd say 1st 2nd Kapanen would definitely be fair value.

The literal GM of your team paid Hallander and a 1st for Kapanen a year ago and has had a hard on for him since he drafted him in 2014.

How can you possibly say "if the Canucks valued Kapanen" when you're literally bringing up examples of trades that suggest Kapanen's value is a 1st+ and the Canucks current GM is a guy who paid that price for Kapanen a year ago?

 

[UrbanImpact]

JT Miller would be a perfect perfect fit for Pens. He is probably the definition of a Brian Burke type of player. Grit, Skill, Snarl. Powerplay, Penalty Kill, Centre, Wing.

Crosby
Malkin
Miller

That down the middle lineup would give any team fits in the playoffs.

Plus Miller is under contract next year so Pens would get 2 playoff runs with him

 

[Peter Griffin]

My rankings:

1. 1st and Sundqvist for Reaves and a 2nd. Beyond incomprehensible that he made this deal, especially considering Sullivan was absolutely not on board with the acquisition.
2. Reaves, Cole, Gustavsson, a 1st and 3rd for Brassard. It wasn't bad value at the time, but Brassard ended up a complete bust in Pittsburgh (as in he was actively hurting the team) and the trade was made even worse based on JR paying a 1st for Reaves.

That's really what happened with a lot of JR's moves in Pittsburgh. They weren't bad at the time (outside of the Reaves deal), but they aged horribly and JR spent even more assets to fix those trades.



Oh yeah Miller's value has definitely gone up, I wasn't suggesting otherwise. I was suggesting that you'd need to add a 1st, 2nd and a prospect on top of Kapanen for Miller is just pure insanity.

You'd have to add on top of Kapanen for Miller because Miller has gotten better with Vancouver.

I think a 1st and Kapanen is what they’d be looking for minimum. That said, they should really be trying for a younger, less proven player with a hopefully higher ceiling than Kapanen.

 

[Empoleon8771]

So he dealt high picks for win now pieces. He won’t be doing that in Vancouver.

I mean yeah, but those deals weren't bad because he traded high picks. He made plenty of bad trades that didn't involve high picks, like doing Hagelin for Pearson, Pearson for Gudbranson (which actually ended up fine for the Penguins surprisingly), Despres for Lovejoy and Hornqvist for Matheson (although that was more of a lose-lose trade IMO).

That's the thing with JR. There is no set process that yields great results or bad results with him. He just makes a ton of gambles. That's his entire management strategy. He makes high risk, high reward moves regularly.

 

[UrbanImpact]

Damn it's pretty amazing that the Canucks have been so bad for years if this is how valuable their players are

If you seriously think Miller is worth that, there is no reasonable discussion to be had here.

Canucks so bad except:

Last 3 seasons

Playoff Points:

JT Miller- 17 pts

Crosby + Malkin combined- 15 pts

 

[UrbanImpact]

I think a 1st and Kapanen is what they’d be looking for minimum. That said, they should really be trying for a younger, less proven player with a hopefully higher ceiling than Kapanen.

Kapanen is not, should not be the type of player we are trading JT Miller for unless Kapanen comes with alot of ++

Miller is probably our biggest bullet in the chamber and he should be traded for a RD

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think a 1st and Kapanen is what they’d be looking for minimum. That said, they should really be trying for a younger, less proven player with a hopefully higher ceiling than Kapanen.

And the Penguins wouldn't do that because Miller probably wouldn't be more valuable enough than Kapanen for them to justify it.

The trade that makes the most sense to be is something similar to his first Penguins trade, which was Neal for Hornqvist and Spaling. In this case, Miller would be Neal and Kapanen would be Hornqvist, but I just have no idea who on the Penguins would fit into Spaling spot that has enough value to bridge the gap while being someone the Penguins could afford to move. That's the biggest issue I see with the trade, the Penguins don't really have anyone that makes sense for the Canucks to throw on top of Kapanen to get Miller.

 

[Peter Griffin]

I mean yeah, but those deals weren't bad because he traded high picks. He made plenty of bad trades that didn't involve high picks, like doing Hagelin for Pearson, Pearson for Gudbranson (which actually ended up fine for the Penguins surprisingly), Despres for Lovejoy and Hornqvist for Matheson (although that was more of a lose-lose trade IMO).

That's the thing with JR. There is no set process that yields great results or bad results with him. He just makes a ton of gambles. That's his entire management strategy. He makes high risk, high reward moves regularly.

None of those deals are that concerning really, par for the course for most GM’s. He also made very good acquisitions picking up Marino for a late pick, McCann for a late 2nd and fleecing Jimbo in the Bonino/Sutter swap.

I certainly don’t see how he’s bad enough to even joke that he’d entertain a Kapanen/Boeser swap straight up.

 

[CherryToke]

It'll be something around Miller and probably Zucker.

I heard it'll be something around Pearson and probably Guentzel

 

[Peter Griffin]

Kapanen is not, should not be the type of player we are trading JT Miller for unless Kapanen comes with alot of ++

Miller is probably our biggest bullet in the chamber and he should be traded for a RD

I agree, hence the 2nd part of my post you quoted.

 

[RSPens]

None of those deals are that concerning really, par for the course for most GM’s. He also made very good acquisitions picking up Marino for a late pick, McCann for a late 2nd and fleecing Jimbo in the Bonino/Sutter swap.

I certainly don’t see how he’s bad enough to even joke that he’d entertain a Kapanen/Boeser swap straight up.

He didn't trade McCann for a second. He got McCann because he was trying to fix his screw up with Brassard. It was Brassard, Sheahan, 2nd and 2 4ths for McCann and Bjugstad. Bjugstad wasn't horrible but he was never worth Brassard, Sheahan and a 4th.

 

[Empoleon8771]

None of those deals are that concerning really, par for the course for most GM’s. He also made very good acquisitions picking up Marino for a late pick, McCann for a late 2nd and fleecing Jimbo in the Bonino/Sutter swap.

I certainly don’t see how he’s bad enough to even joke that he’d entertain a Kapanen/Boeser swap straight up.

The McCann trade isn't good when you look at the totality of that trade tree and what JR gave up to get to that point.

Yes, JR has made some great trades. Scuderi for Daley is his absolute masterpiece, and I still find it hilarious today that the Hawks made that move. The Kessel deal was phenomenal as well. I'm not saying he's an idiot like Benning or Bergevin, who pretty much exclusively make bad moves. I'm making the point that JR makes a ton of gambles and gets fixated on players he likes, where he won't care about what he gives up to get them.

Look at the Kapanen trade in 2020, when the Leafs basically had to move him but the Penguins still paid top price for him. Look at the Zucker situation, where JR first tried to trade Kessel for Zucker straight up only to later trade a 1st plus the return he got for Kessel for Zucker a few months later (Kessel for Galchenyuk and POJ and then Galchenyuk, Addison and a 1st for Zucker). He's not a bad GM or good GM, he's an absolute wildcard that makes massive gambles and gets fixated on certain players.

 

[PensandCaps]

Sutter, Pearson and 2023 4th for Marino and 2022 2nd

Oh boy. that 2023 4th really has me considering this.

 

[Peter Griffin]

He didn't trade McCann for a second. He got McCann because he was trying to fix his screw up with Brassard. It was Brassard, Sheahan, 2nd and 2 4ths for McCann and Bjugstad. Bjugstad wasn't horrible but he was never worth Brassard, Sheahan and a 4th.

The same Brassard that Florida traded shortly after with a 6th for a 3rd? And the same Riley Sheahan that the Panthers let walk at the end of the season? Let’s not pretend these guys had high value. McCann for a 2nd, 3rd and 4th isn’t bad value at all.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The same Brassard that Florida traded shortly after with a 6th for a 3rd? And the same Riley Sheahan that the Panthers let walk at the end of the season? Let’s not pretend these guys had high value. McCann for a 2nd, 3rd and 4th isn’t bad value at all.

The issue was that JR traded Reaves, Cole, Gustavsson, a 1st and 3rd for Brassard a year before that, after paying a 1st and Sundqvist for Reaves and a 2nd about 6 months before that. Then he had to retain half of Bjugstad's salary a year later to get out of his deal.

It's pretty much the definition of buy high, sell low.

 

[orby]

I heard it'll be something around Pearson and probably Guentzel

I get what you're saying. I just think Rutherford is the type to overpay for his favorite guys. Kapanen makes more sense. But don't be surprised if Zucker ends up in Vancouver if JR is calling the shots.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

So you think he will run the Canucks the same way he ran the win no Penguins that had Crosby and Malkin?

that's delusional.

The guy has 3 cups and is in the hall of fame, he has a brilliant hockey mind,

he is capable of getting to the same destination by taking a different path.

Remember when he drafted Jack Johnson? Then 12 years he bid against himself to get him in 2018. Strap in, high highs and low lows with button masher extraordinaire HOFGMJR!