Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[Pancakes]

Montgomery has quite an impressive coaching record even outside of his recent NHL work.

If the Pens were serious about winning (they aren't) they'd jump on him like a fly on shit.

 

[Andy99]

If every d-man looks like shit in a system then you have to look at the forwards. They don’t slow anyone down in the N zone and they don’t support the breakout enough, or cover for pinching D well enough.

I mean, yeah…but if it’s almost everyone and you’ve changed out the bottom six forwards at least and done it three times, then the coach is the real problem lol

 

[Ginormousthumbs]

Sully’s chance to go home!

 

[BusinessGoose]

Dubas: "would you be interested in coaching here in Pittsburgh?"

Montgomery: "HAHAHAHA *click*"

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Legit question; How's Montgomery's track record with youth? I know it's kind of impossible to tell with his time in Boston, since their prospect pool's every bit as bad or worse than this team's, but does he have a history of working with younger guys or getting the most out of 'em or anything?

I dunno. Couldn't give a shit about the here and now, though it's impossible to do worse than Sully has with this team. This team's gotta look for somebody that's gonna guide them through the next chapter imo.

 

[vodeni]

Quinn has improved Graves imo, but at the cost of regression from everyone else

Improved him to the point that he benched him,

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I mean the forwards D coverage on this team is ass don't mistake me but any defensive system evidently predicated on gradeschool-level concepts like "just go pick up your man and play hard" is gonna get exposed daily by NHL rosters/coaching/scouting.

Seriously. If the overall message is essentially "just look for your man", then that's going to be so easy to pick apart by the opposition. It's no wonder we have so much trouble when the opposition "crosses over" and suddenly no one knows which man is supposed to be theirs to cover.

The more I hear about the things (or lack of things) Sullivan has the team doing, the more it absolutely boggles my mind that he's so well regarded by the owners. They own the Red Sox. It would be like if their manager's entire instructions to the batters was "just hit the ball if you think you can" or to the pitchers "just throw it past the hitter" without any actual tactics.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Improved him to the point that he benched him,

He had a bad week, but overall less of a problem than others this year.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

But really though... with Kingerski all but confirming that the team's DZ setup is seriously "just figure it out" -- what does this coaching staff DO? Dave Quinn is "coaching the defensemen" -- to do what, exactly? Grow sweet mustaches? We all know Mike Sullivan checked out like 5+ years ago and is basically just trying out new ties in front of a live audience these days. So like... where does all this loyalty and unfettered ballwashing even come from?

This is a professional sports team with guys making millions of dollars and they are actively coaching the defense (which has been a horrible issue for years and well worth tweaking to get better) to just... go out there and give 'em hell. That's insane to me.

I think two things are true:
1. The Penguins do run a defensive system that requires high IQ and awareness, which is why some players haven't adapted well. Some players have even talked about it, saying that it just takes some time to adjust and that communication is key.

I think the biggest issue is less the system and more its rigidity. Teams have figured it out. Every system has holes. The best teams find ways to be flexible to adapt against certain opponents, something Sullivan used to do. We're not seeing that now.

2. Kingerski doesn't know shit about systems, so anything he writes about players not Sullivan's system is absolutely worthless.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think two things are true:
1. The Penguins do run a defensive system that requires high IQ and awareness, which is why some players haven't adapted well. Some players have even talked about it, saying that it just takes some time to adjust and that communication is key.

I think the biggest issue is less the system and more its rigidity. Teams have figured it out. Every system has holes. The best teams find ways to be flexible to adapt against certain opponents, something Sullivan used to do. We're not seeing that now.

2. Kingerski doesn't know shit about systems, so anything he writes about players not Sullivan's system is absolutely worthless.

lol fair enough... your last bullet point there is especially relevant. Kingerski is a dolt.

It's funny to me that both Disco and now Sullivan ran rigid defensive systems that are considered difficult to play and eventually started giving the team major issues.

 

[Andy99]

I think two things are true:
1. The Penguins do run a defensive system that requires high IQ and awareness, which is why some players haven't adapted well. Some players have even talked about it, saying that it just takes some time to adjust and that communication is key.

I think the biggest issue is less the system and more its rigidity. Teams have figured it out. Every system has holes. The best teams find ways to be flexible to adapt against certain opponents, something Sullivan used to do. We're not seeing that now.

2. Kingerski doesn't know shit about systems, so anything he writes about players not Sullivan's system is absolutely worthless.

As to 2., true…but he has a former coach doing podcasts…so when he says this, just understand that it’s coming from someone else who actually has knowledge..lol…he pretends he knows but he’s being fed the info lol

 

[The Old Master]

lol fair enough... your last bullet point there is especially relevant. Kingerski is a dolt.

It's funny to me that both Disco and now Sullivan ran rigid defensive systems that are considered difficult to play and eventually started giving the team major issues.

some things just don't add up. when a coach gets the nhl he has 2 choices,
1. he can match his system to the players he has.
2. he can get the gm to draft/trade to get players to play his system
we have seemed to have failed at both. so, we are left with many reasons for failing but it still puts it on the gm and/or coach. we have had lots of time to do both.

 

[cygnus47]

some things just don't add up. when a coach gets the nhl he has 2 choices,
1. he can match his system to the players he has.
2. he can get the gm to draft/trade to get players to play his system
we have seemed to have failed at both. so, we are left with many reasons for failing but it still puts it on the gm and/or coach. we have had lots of time to do both.

These both assume the coach still has a system and didn't abandon it half a decade ago.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

As to 2., true…but he has a former coach doing podcasts…so when he says this, just understand that it’s coming from someone else who actually has knowledge..lol…he pretends he knows but he’s being fed the info lol

Former players and coaches can be dumb, too. Just watch any broadcast of any sport anywhere.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Former players and coaches can be dumb, too. Just watch any broadcast of any sport anywhere.

People in general are dumb

I hear there's actually some that are still pittsburgh penguins fans

Effing Yikes bro...

 

[The Old Master]

These both assume the coach still has a system and didn't abandon it half a decade ago.

i was trying to give everyone the benefit of doubt any coach that gets this far has to have something.

 

[Sike Mullivan]

I think Boston just needs Gryz back.

 

[Headshot77]

Against whom do you see a realistic victory?

I think they bullshit one out.

 

[cygnus47]

i was trying to give everyone the benefit of doubt any coach that gets this far has to have something.

To give Sully a tiny bit of credit, I don't think the system was any more elaborate than find your guy and take the puck off him in 2016. It's just that the addition of being high speed and high pressure and proactive instead of passive meant that we were forcing errors with the same ideas in our heads. Whereas now we're old and slow AND passive AND don't have a defensive system, so we're completely exposed.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

With only 1 retention slot, it's tough to figure out who to use it on because ideally you'd want to move - Rust, Rakell, Pettersson and if you're "able to" - Nedeljkovic and Grzelcyk and then the "if you pray hard enough for a miracle" - Jarry and Graves.

Rakell wouldn't be hard to move but his cap hit might be without retention, you'd likely be fine taking back a bad contract with 1-2yrs left on it at worst.

Rust I think is tougher of the two but he has playoff pedigree that might interest teams enough as well as his pk ability, he's a 125k more cap hit than Rakell, likely similar situation, taking a bad contract back with 1-2yrs left on it. Both can bring back a pick and a prospect I think.

Pettersson I think you would be better using the retention on, pending UFA, eating salary would get a bigger return and he's going to be a coveted asset at 30-50% retention.

I think Ned and Grz you'd maybe be stuck with Ned but Grz might be someone Boston buys low on to get back to to pair with McAvoy if they're still intending to battle for a spot and do up until the deadline, maybe a deal of Grzelcyk + Pens 4th '25 for Peeke + Boston's 3rd next season. Peeke has another year left, both cap hits are a wash.

I think the Canucks might pull the trigger on the Marcus Pettersson deal in the next day or so. I'd be shocked if JR/Allvin haven't added Marcus before end of day Thursday. Definitely a cap dump heading back with that one.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I don't think Graves' improvement this season has much to do with David Quinn. It's more like he was probably thinking he was one step away from becoming Wade Redden'ed out of the NHL. That type of pressure to perform can change players.

Besides, obviously Sullivan does not see the improvement. Either that or there is no other non-veteran, non-Massachusetts D-man to scratch.

If I were Owen Pickering or his family, I would not lay any roots down.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't think Graves' improvement this season has much to do with David Quinn. It's more like he was probably thinking he was one step away from becoming Wade Redden'ed out of the NHL. That type of pressure to perform can change players.

Besides, obviously Sullivan does not see the improvement. Either that or there is no other non-veteran, non-Massachusetts D-man to scratch.

If I were Owen Pickering or his family, I would not lay any roots down.

Graves led the team in terms of lowest GA per 60 last year.

 

[eXile3]

I don't think Graves' improvement this season has much to do with David Quinn. It's more like he was probably thinking he was one step away from becoming Wade Redden'ed out of the NHL. That type of pressure to perform can change players.

Besides, obviously Sullivan does not see the improvement. Either that or there is no other non-veteran, non-Massachusetts D-man to scratch.

If I were Owen Pickering or his family, I would not lay any roots down.

He looks better because he’s playing less and not with Letang. He was playing 18 minutes a game last year and he’s down to 15.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Dubas: "would you be interested in coaching here in Pittsburgh?"

Montgomery: "HAHAHAHA *click*"

For sure. for now anyway he is getting paid until the end of this season, but his contract is up

 

[SEALBound]

I don't think Graves' improvement this season has much to do with David Quinn. It's more like he was probably thinking he was one step away from becoming Wade Redden'ed out of the NHL. That type of pressure to perform can change players.

Besides, obviously Sullivan does not see the improvement. Either that or there is no other non-veteran, non-Massachusetts D-man to scratch.

If I were Owen Pickering or his family, I would not lay any roots down.

His improvement might also be the fact that he's on the third pairing and going up against worse competition than Gryz or Petts. He's also not getting hung out to dry by Letang or Karlsson on the reg.

Pickering is up covering for injuries. Once guys come back, he goes back down. It may not be what we "want" but that's the normal process. I imagine after the TDL when Pettersson and possibly Gryz are gone, he'll be up full time to end the year.