Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[DesertedPenguin]

Pettersson tops Seravalli's trade target list, but Seravalli isn't wild about the potential return.

Blues, Blackhawks reveal jerseys for 2025 Winter Classic

Chicago and St. Louis will meet at historic Wrigley Field on New Year’s Eve.

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[Empoleon8771]

"Pettersson is solid enough to be a #4 defenseman. Where Pettersson struggles, with the puck on the breakout making a solid first pass, will limit his market in some ways"

Amazing insight Seravalli, you 75 year old looking f***.

Like this is just an objectively wrong analysis of Pettersson

 

[SEALBound]

Pettersson tops Seravalli's trade target list, but Seravalli isn't wild about the potential return.

Blues, Blackhawks reveal jerseys for 2025 Winter Classic

Chicago and St. Louis will meet at historic Wrigley Field on New Year’s Eve.

www.dailyfaceoff.com

Realistically, it's going to be a 2nd and a prospect. Pettersson is good and all but he's not Hanafin. He's not going to get a top tier return. He's just the perfect LD depth addition for a playoff run. Pay a bit more and you can get his reasonable $4mil down to $3mil or even $2mil.

If I'm Vancouver or Edmonton, I'd be all over it. If I'm Edmonton, I try to get a forward from us as well for bottom 6 depth. We have plenty of options to in Beauvillier, Acciari, Nieto, DOC, or possibly even a guy like Hayes. I'd rather have Hayes than Derek Ryan come playoff time.

 

[Gurglesons]

"Pettersson is solid enough to be a #4 defenseman. Where Pettersson struggles, with the puck on the breakout making a solid first pass, will limit his market in some ways"

Amazing insight Seravalli, you 75 year old looking f***.

Like this is just an objectively wrong analysis of Pettersson

Is it? The analytics community thinks he's fantastic, but he honestly isn't really impressive and has gotten abused in multiple playoffs due to his lack of physicality.

I like the guy, and I'm fine with him, but he's a LHD, that scores like 20-25 points and he doesn't really play the "physical playoffs game" that people pony up for.

Marino is a simliar player, but RHD and scores more. He returned two 2nds and Ty Smith and a 3rd, both comparable returns while having term. Perhaps you view that as a negative, but still. I don't see why people are expecting a 1st or more unless we are taking back cap.

Especially with Dubas who has gotten absolutely leveled in pretty much every trade he's made here outside of Reilly Smith who is probably the weakest value type in the league.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Is it? The analytics community thinks he's fantastic, but he honestly isn't really impressive and has gotten abused in multiple playoffs due to his lack of physicality.

I like the guy, and I'm fine with him, but he's a LHD, that scores like 20-25 points and he doesn't really play the "physical playoffs game" that people pony up for.

Marino is a simliar player, but RHD and scores more. He returned two 2nds and Ty Smith and a 3rd, both comparable returns while having term.

Yes. Saying that Pettersson has a bad first pass is an objectively bad statement to make about him.

Describing Pettersson as "solid enough to be a #4 defenseman", as if he's marginal enough to be of that level, is just dumb. He's firmly a good middle pair defenseman.

Also how has Pettersson gotten "abused" in the playoffs with the Penguins? He's a +3 in 17 games for them and was great against the Rangers in 2022.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yes. Saying that Pettersson has a bad first pass is an objectively bad statement to make about him.

Describing Pettersson as "solid enough to be a #4 defenseman", as if he's marginal enough to be of that level, is just dumb. He's firmly a good middle pair defenseman.

Semantics. The overall point still stands. MP28 is an analytics darling who is probably a # 4 on a contending team.

 

[Sideline]

Realistically, it's going to be a 2nd and a prospect. Pettersson is good and all but he's not Hanafin. He's not going to get a top tier return. He's just the perfect LD depth addition for a playoff run. Pay a bit more and you can get his reasonable $4mil down to $3mil or even $2mil.

If I'm Vancouver or Edmonton, I'd be all over it. If I'm Edmonton, I try to get a forward from us as well for bottom 6 depth. We have plenty of options to in Beauvillier, Acciari, Nieto, DOC, or possibly even a guy like Hayes. I'd rather have Hayes than Derek Ryan come playoff time.

I agree Hanafin is better, but when you look at the list of guys on the market beyond Pettersson it is bleak. I would be happy with a 2nd and a prospect, but I also wouldn't be shocked if scarcity of alternatives drives the price higher.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Semantics. The overall point still stands. MP28 is an analytics darling who is probably a # 4 on a contending team.

Probably a #4 on a contending team doesn't not align with what Seravalli said.

If he's your #4 you likely have one of the best top-4 D groups in the NHL.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I know Rutherford isn't the GM but I hope he pressures Allvin into overpaying for MP. Send Willander+ our way.

 

[Empoleon8771]

This is probably getting into semantics territory, but the big issue I had with Seravalli's report was that it was implying that Pettersson was just solid enough to be a #4. I think he's firmly on par with prime Dumoulin right now, which may not be a true pair carrying defenseman but is a top pair complement. The big difference between someone like Hanifin and Petterson is that Hanifin drives a pair while Pettersson is just a complement for it.

The issue I had is that I felt he was implying he's just this Maatta type that can go along for the ride as your #4, which I feel isn't an accurate representation of him. He's more like Dumoulin than Maatta IMO.

 

[Sideline]

I know Rutherford isn't the GM but I hope he pressures Allvin into overpaying for MP. Send Willander+ our way.

That's an insane overpay IMO, but JR owes us one of his dumb all in trades lol

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Hell, package Petts and Puljujarvi to somebody. Solid middle pairing defensive defenseman team's adore, and a solid middle-6 player who seems to have stabilized his game for under $5M combined.

 

[Gurglesons]

This is probably getting into semantics territory, but the big issue I had with Seravalli's report was that it was implying that Pettersson was just solid enough to be a #4. I think he's firmly on par with prime Dumoulin right now, which may not be a true pair carrying defenseman but is a top pair complement. The big difference between someone like Hanifin and Petterson is that Hanifin drives a pair while Pettersson is just a complement for it.

The issue I had is that I felt he was implying he's just this Maatta type that can go along for the ride as your #4, which I feel isn't an accurate representation of him. He's more like Dumoulin than Maatta IMO.

Prime Dumoulin was a # 4 that Penguins fans overrated and said was a top pairing guy because of one playoff run.

I say that as someone that owns a Dumoulin jersey. So, I'd agree Pettersson is the same.

Both players do not have the offensive ability to be a top pairing D.

They are fine if you are playing them with a prime Letang or EK65. But, as we've seen with Petts this year and Dumo in the past if those players fall off their game will struggle.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Hell, package Petts and Puljujarvi to somebody. Solid middle pairing defensive defenseman team's adore, and a solid middle-6 player who seems to have stabilized his game for under $5M combined.

I'm very concerned Sullivan's idiotic usage of Puljujarvi is going to sink any sort of value he could have.

I know Sullivan is never going to make lineup decisions based on propping up player value, but Puljujarvi is a guy you could get a really nice rental return for with how he's producing and how little money he's making IMO.

 

[SEALBound]

Semantics. The overall point still stands. MP28 is an analytics darling who is probably a # 4 on a contending team.

Yes, which is why a contending team would want him - to bolster your defense into the best defense in the playoffs. Pettersson can reliably play all three LD slots. And quite honestly, how he performs with that team - I don't give a shit as long as the return is good.

Hell, package Petts and Puljujarvi to somebody. Solid middle pairing defensive defenseman team's adore, and a solid middle-6 player who seems to have stabilized his game for under $5M combined.

Puljujarvi is really an interesting case for us. I'm curious if Dubas discussed any sort of extension with him and what the price tag might be. He's done well and I think he can continue to do well IF Sullivan gets his head out of his ass and plays him as he should. But I'm weary of resigning him to anything significant so if he wants that, I wouldn't hate capitalizing on his rebound a bit. That said, if he's willing to come back at say 2yr, $1.5mil per, then great!

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm very concerned Sullivan's idiotic usage of Puljujarvi is going to sink any sort of value he could have.

I know Sullivan is never going to make lineup decisions based on propping up player value, but Puljujarvi is a guy you could get a really nice rental return for with how he's producing and how little money he's making IMO.

I don't think anyone is paying over a 3rd for Pulju and if he's on pace for 30 pts, I think he returns it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't think anyone is paying over a 3rd for Pulju and if he's on pace for 30 pts, I think he returns it.

You're right but I feel this team should be trying to get as many picks as possible. Getting a 3rd rounder for Puljujarvi, who most expected was just AHL depth going into the year, would be nice.

I just don't think that Sullivan jerking him in and out of the lineup will help him bring back any value.

 

[Gurglesons]

You're right but I feel this team should be trying to get as many picks as possible. Getting a 3rd rounder for Puljujarvi, who most expected was just AHL depth going into the year, would be nice.

I just don't think that Sullivan jerking him in and out of the lineup will help him bring back any value.

I think both DOC and Pulju will likely return 3rds or 4ths at worst if we move them just because of their flexibility and cap hit.

I have no problem with that tbh. Move them out.

My ideal deadline is something like:

Pettersson at 50% - 1st + Hogslander
DOC - 2nd
Pulju - 3rd
Ned - 4th
Beau / Gryz - Whatever we can get.

And then maybe you take on a LHD for a return in a three way trade.

Carson Soucy sticks out. Maybe you throw a pick at Winnipeg for Heinola if they are the ones who take MP28.

 

[pistolpete11]

It just struck me as funny that now the story is that Sullivan needs high IQ defensemen to run his system properly

"OK, well we have Letang already. No worries there. Now, let's go get Graves and while we're at it, might as well get Karlsson, too. Gryz is a genius because he went to school in Boston. We'll fill the last spot with whatever AHL tweener we have. Boom. That should work."

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I don't want Pickering on this roster as a regular until Sullivan is gone. He will destroy this poor lad.

 

[Khelandros]

It just struck me as funny that now the story is that Sullivan needs high IQ defensemen to run his system properly

"OK, well we have Letang already. No worries there. Now, let's go get Graves and while we're at it, might as well get Karlsson, too. Gryz is a genius because he went to school in Boston. We'll fill the last spot with whatever AHL tweener we have. Boom. That should work."

You forgot the part about turning two of the best offensive defensemen into defensive defenseman to run his "system".

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Probably a #4 on a contending team doesn't not align with what Seravalli said.

If he's your #4 you likely have one of the best top-4 D groups in the NHL.

If he's your #2 you likely have one of the worst top-4 D groups in the NHL. So it works both ways. Describing him as a #4 on a contender is probably more accurate than describing him as a top pairing guy on a contender.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If he's your #2 you likely have one of the worst top-4 D groups in the NHL. So it works both ways. Describing him as a #4 on a contender is probably more accurate than describing him as a top pairing guy on a contender.

Did the Penguins have one of the worst top-4 D groups in the NHL when Dumoulin-Letang was their top pair? Because Pettersson and Dumoulin are basically equal players in my eyes.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think Petts has only really had like a 120ish game run of playing well but the vast majority of his career aside from that like season and a half has been pretty underwhelming or downright bad. We basically wanted to give him away as a cap dump before Hextall ultimately moved Marino. /shrug

 

[Gurglesons]

Did the Penguins have one of the worst top-4 D groups in the NHL when Dumoulin-Letang was their top pair? Because Pettersson and Dumoulin are basically equal players in my eyes.

Yes.

The Penguins won back to back cups despite their horrible D core which everyone has acknowledged for years.

I think Petts has only really had like a 120ish game run of playing well but the vast majority of his career aside from that like season and a half has been pretty underwhelming or downright bad. We basically wanted to give him away as a cap dump before Hextall ultimately moved Marino. /shrug

Yeah, most people were asking us to pay Seattle to take him or Zucker.