Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[pistolpete11]

If he's your #2 you likely have one of the worst top-4 D groups in the NHL. So it works both ways. Describing him as a #4 on a contender is probably more accurate than describing him as a top pairing guy on a contender.

Petts isn't their second best defenseman just because he's on their top pairing, though. He's a distant 3rd behind Letang and Karlsson.....well, in theory anyway.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Petts isn't their second best defenseman just because he's on their top pairing, though. He's a distant 3rd behind Letang and Karlsson.....well, in theory anyway.

Yeah and that was my point saying that he's a top-4 complement. He's not a guy who can drive a pair on his own but he can absolutely play 23 minutes a night with a good partner and thrive.

On an average defense, I think he's a top pair LD but 3rd best defensemen in the top-4. Swap out Grzelcyk for someone halfway decent like 2017 Maatta and I think that top-4 (Pettersson-Karlsson and Maatta-Letang) is perfectly middle of the pack.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Looking at the roster for 2026-27, when the Cap could jump like 15M or whatever they're saying, the Pens have almost no one signed so they can be pretty flexible.

Sid, Rust, Rakell
Karlsson, Tang, Graves
Jarry

That's it and all for ~45M. They could easily have a whole new team by the time Sid's ready to retire.

 

[Pancakes]

Looking at the roster for 2026-27, when the Cap could jump like 15M or whatever they're saying, the Pens have almost no one signed so they can be pretty flexible.

Sid, Rust, Rakell
Karlsson, Tang, Graves
Jarry

That's it and all for ~45M. They could easily have a whole new team by the time Sid's ready to retire.

They should honestly strongly consider trading Rakell right now. His value is never going to be higher. He's been analytically a beast this year and he's scoring a lot.

 

[Pancakes]

It just struck me as funny that now the story is that Sullivan needs high IQ defensemen to run his system properly

"OK, well we have Letang already. No worries there. Now, let's go get Graves and while we're at it, might as well get Karlsson, too. Gryz is a genius because he went to school in Boston. We'll fill the last spot with whatever AHL tweener we have. Boom. That should work."

One thing that struck me about how absolutely dumb the Pens were with the Graves signing is that early last year while he was struggling he mentioned that on the Devils they used a breakout that incorporated forwards coming deeper back into the d-zone and a few short passes to exit the zone. The Pens on the other hand like to stretch the play out on their breakout.

Why in the absolute sweet jesus would you sign Ryan f-ing Graves and think that he'd be good at quickly transitioning the puck up ice with long stretch passes? I could take one look at his mix tape before he came over to Pittsburgh and told you that he'd struggle in a system where he has to make long passes instead of short ones.

It was such a tragic misreading of his capabilities. Setup to fail.

 

[Andy99]

Finally some mainstream media talking about this, but it’s always couched with “he’s a great coach” lol…no he ain’t…it’s phrased as blaming FSG for not doing anything about the greatest coach in Penguins history lol..

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/jason-mackey/2024/11/20/fenway-sports-group-pittsburgh-penguins-mike-sullivan-nhl-news-rumors/stories/202411200068

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

"Pettersson is solid enough to be a #4 defenseman. Where Pettersson struggles, with the puck on the breakout making a solid first pass, will limit his market in some ways"

Amazing insight Seravalli, you 75 year old looking f***.

Like this is just an objectively wrong analysis of Pettersson

He would've been right about 3-4 years ago but Pettersson has improved quite a bit since then.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

They should honestly strongly consider trading Rakell right now. His value is never going to be higher. He's been analytically a beast this year and he's scoring a lot.

100%

By October, this team shouldn't have any of Petts, DOC, Bunting, Rakell, Rust or EK on it tbh. Most of all Sullivan.

Not confident in any of that happening though, beyond Petts.

 

[Pancakes]

100%

By October, this team shouldn't have any of Petts, DOC, Bunting, Rakell, Rust or EK on it tbh. Most of all Sullivan.

Not confident in any of that happening though, beyond Petts.

I'm not sure EK is tradeable (for a return where it would even be worth it), and if Sullivan does get replaced it might not be bad to hold onto EK as he might actually bring value with a new coach. I also don't see Rust getting dealt as they aren't going to trade all of Sid's wingers.

Raks, Petts, DOC, Bunting would all be good to clear out though asap.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm not sure EK is tradeable (for a return where it would even be worth it), and if Sullivan does get replaced it might not be bad to hold onto EK as he might actually bring value with a new coach. I also don't see Rust getting dealt as they aren't going to trade all of Sid's wingers.

Raks, Petts, DOC, Bunting would all be good to clear out though asap.

Yeah, EK's value is in a real bad spot thanks to Sullivan's coaching. I dunno, I still think a team would throw out a line. The history of talent and effectiveness in transition and producing points is there. This team absolutely needs to save a retention slot for EK though, not even a question. And it's gonna have to be 50%. That's pretty much the only way you're ever gonna get anything of value, albeit probably not much.

Bunting's kinda in the same boat imo. Dude's been pretty much dogshit, but he is a much more palatable $4.5M AAV for two years. Though he does have a 10-team NTC iirc.

But Petts and Rakell should be moved sooner than later imo. You might be able to eek out a bit more value closer to the TDL but you're also risking injury and losing any return if that happens.

 

[Andy99]

Someone call in and ask him why he hasn’t fired Sullivan yet? Lol

https://x.com/i/web/status/1859370125704515659

 

[Pancakes]

Yeah, EK's value is in a real bad spot thanks to Sullivan's coaching. I dunno, I still think a team would throw out a line. The history of talent and effectiveness in transition and producing points is there. This team absolutely needs to save a retention slot for EK though, not even a question. And it's gonna have to be 50%. That's pretty much the only way you're ever gonna get anything of value, albeit probably not much.

Bunting's kinda in the same boat imo. Dude's been pretty much dogshit, but he is a much more palatable $4.5M AAV for two years. Though he does have a 10-team NTC iirc.

But Petts and Rakell should be moved sooner than later imo. You might be able to eek out a bit more value closer to the TDL but you're also risking injury and losing any return if that happens.

I think the ideal is a new coach comes in and EK starts playing better and then maybe they get a better return for him and/or the new coach plus some good Dubas moves = this team has a Caps-like turnaround and is able to be competitive again prior to Sid retiring.

Bunting...yeah I don't know he's just been so bad. Probably stuck with him and have to hope a new coach fixes him.

I'm starting to wonder if Dubas' plan is to just ride it out this year, sell at the TDL, take the top 10 (hopefully top 5) pick, fire or mutually part ways with Sullivan in the off season, and then go from there.

But then again the Pens being super bad might just force Dubas' hand with Sullivan at some point. I mean how bad is FSG/Dubas going to let this get? I feel like it has a chance to get even uglier still than it has been to this point. If the fans/players get frustrated enough things might come to a head earlier than Dubas planned with Sully.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think the ideal is a new coach comes in and EK starts playing better and then maybe they get a better return for him and/or the new coach plus some good Dubas moves = this team has a Caps-like turnaround and is able to be competitive again prior to Sid retiring.

Bunting...yeah I don't know he's just been so bad. Probably stuck with him and have to hope a new coach fixes him.

I'm starting to wonder if Dubas' plan is to just ride it out this year, sell at the TDL, take the top 10 (hopefully top 5) pick, fire or mutually part ways with Sullivan in the off season, and then go from there.

But then again the Pens being super bad might just force Dubas' hand with Sullivan at some point. I mean how bad is FSG/Dubas going to let this get? I feel like it has a chance to get even uglier still than it has been to this point. If the fans/players get frustrated enough things might come to a head earlier than Dubas planned with Sully.

Because he's bad and half this forum is adrenaline addicted junkies who can't think past 24 hours let alone a few weeks.

Why would Carolina move Bunting if he was good? Why would Toronto not sign him if he was good? Why would he have to settle for that dogshit contract if he was good?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Petts isn't their second best defenseman just because he's on their top pairing, though. He's a distant 3rd behind Letang and Karlsson.....well, in theory anyway.

I didn't say he was, nor was I referencing the Penguins. I was saying that if the argument is he's a top pairing guy rather than a #4, then that would mean there's nothing wrong with a defense corps where he's the 2nd best defenseman.

Problem is, he's not good enough to be any contender's 2nd best defensemen. Thus, there's nothing wrong with him being called a #4.

I think saying he can complement a true #1 on the top pairing as an argument for him being a top pairing defender is a bit of a cop-out because a lot of #4 types can do the same thing. Hell, Tampa won back to back Cups with a guy like Ruutta playing on the top pairing with Hedman. Didn't make Ruuta anything more than a #4/#5 defenseman though.

 

[Pancakes]

Because he's bad and half this forum is adrenaline addicted junkies who can't think past 24 hours let alone a few weeks.

Why would Carolina move Bunting if he was good? Why would Toronto not sign him if he was good? Why would he have to settle for that dogshit contract if he was good?

if he can get back to being a 20/20 pest type player the Pens could definitely find a taker for him somewhere.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Someone call in and ask him why he hasn’t fired Sullivan yet? Lol

https://x.com/i/web/status/1859370125704515659

Everyone. Everyone call in and say he should be fired. Don't give these dorks any room to wiggle out of it.

I think the ideal is a new coach comes in and EK starts playing better and then maybe they get a better return for him and/or the new coach plus some good Dubas moves = this team has a Caps-like turnaround and is able to be competitive again prior to Sid retiring.

Bunting...yeah I don't know he's just been so bad. Probably stuck with him and have to hope a new coach fixes him.

I'm starting to wonder if Dubas' plan is to just ride it out this year, sell at the TDL, take the top 10 (hopefully top 5) pick, fire or mutually part ways with Sullivan in the off season, and then go from there.

But then again the Pens being super bad might just force Dubas' hand with Sullivan at some point. I mean how bad is FSG/Dubas going to let this get? I feel like it has a chance to get even uglier still than it has been to this point. If the fans/players get frustrated enough things might come to a head earlier than Dubas planned with Sully.

Yeah, honestly, f*** it. Keep Sully around to tank the season. Ride Jarry and Ned, keeping Blomqvist in the AHL. Accept the lost season, fire Sullivan (in a tearful, "mutual parting of ways") on April 18th, make the most out of it by hopefully lucking into a Martone or Misa or Schaefer. Continue dismantling things and getting value for anybody not nailed down.

Probably gonna have to have a difficult discussion with Sid and Geno as well as to whether they want to ride it out with a rebuilding team in their last NHL years, or be traded to a place where they can compete again before it's all said and done. Honor whatever they want.

But I think we're well past the event horizon as far as pulling outta this a la Washington. Just pull the plug imo and stop this half-assed shit.

 

[Gurglesons]

if he can get back to being a 20/20 pest type player the Pens could definitely find a taker for him somewhere.

Sure, but people were framing this deal as a James Neal / Patric Hornqvist type swap.

Framing Bunting as a top 15 LW in the game.

Same thing with the prospects. Just a complete dog shit trade.

EK65 is our second best player this year.

EK65 is our second best player this year.

 

[MayorofWBS]

Petts should be gone by the TDL.

DOC is traded this season or just left to leave after the season. No ill will just time to part ways.

EK with 50% retention in the offseason

Good luck with Raks, Rust, Bunting - not that I thing that they can't be moved....I just don't think the price to move any one of those is going to be worth moving one. Would be glad if I'm wrong...

 

[SomeDude]

if he can get back to being a 20/20 pest type player the Pens could definitely find a taker for him somewhere.

He’s certainly not going to get back to that as long as Sully is coach. The only way to be benched under Sully is to be Finnish, under 28 years old, or playing physical.

 

[Pancakes]

Everyone. Everyone call in and say he should be fired. Don't give these dorks any room to wiggle out of it.

Yeah, honestly, f*** it. Keep Sully around to tank the season. Ride Jarry and Ned, keeping Blomqvist in the AHL. Accept the lost season, fire Sullivan (in a tearful, "mutual parting of ways") on April 18th, make the most out of it by hopefully lucking into a Martone or Misa or Schaefer. Continue dismantling things and getting value for anybody not nailed down.

Probably gonna have to have a difficult discussion with Sid and Geno as well as to whether they want to ride it out with a rebuilding team in their last NHL years, or be traded to a place where they can compete again before it's all said and done. Honor whatever they want.

But I think we're well past the event horizon as far as pulling outta this a la Washington. Just pull the plug imo and stop this half-assed shit.

I don't think it's out of the question that they could pull a Washington but it probably involves a multi-pronged effort of getting lucky in the draft such that they get someone who can make an immediate NHL impact next year or at the latest two years from now and Dubas making smart free agent signings. And Dubas making room for Blomqvist to platoon with whichever of Jarry/Ned they decide to keep next year.

So uhh yeah not terribly likely.

For me if I'm Dubas I'm looking at what can I control? I can't control whether or not big free agents will be available and/or even willing to sign here. But I can control how much cap flexibility I have by leaving myself an opening for whatever trade/fa opportunities make themselves available this off season. So to that end Dubas needs to be clearing as much chaff as he can from this roster and acquiring picks and prospects to give himself the flexibility to both improve the system but also have assets for players that could help now and in the future.

Sure, but people were framing this deal as a James Neal / Patric Hornqvist type swap.

Framing Bunting as a top 15 LW in the game.

Same thing with the prospects. Just a complete dog shit trade.

EK65 is our second best player this year.

However it was framed, I think the objective now needs to be to get him playing up to his capabilities and then go from there. It's not like he's a complete bum of a player. He's been a competent top 9 forward before. He's not that old and should be capable of being that again.

He’s certainly not going to get back to that as long as Sully is coach. The only way to be benched under Sully is to be Finnish, under 28 years old, or playing physical.

Probably not. Obviously if the Pens are going to continue to keep Sully forever then literally anything they do probably doesn't matter a whole lot in the long run.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think it's hilarious that Puljujarvi can't seem to catch a break despite everything he's shown and how much he's produced with such little opportunity given so far. Weirdo shit, man. That's a microcosm of how ratf***ed this team's become since the B2Bs. Given any choice, this team almost always chooses incorrectly.

Shit, man. The only reason Jake's gone is because he was hell-bent on hitting FA. And good on him for not tying himself to a sinking ship. He wanted to get a huge pay day, and he got it, and ended up on a team with Kuch, Point, Hedman, and Vasi to boot. Saved this team from themselves.

I don't think it's out of the question that they could pull a Washington but it probably involves a multi-pronged effort of getting lucky in the draft such that they get someone who can make an immediate NHL impact next year or at the latest two years from now and Dubas making smart free agent signings. And Dubas making room for Blomqvist to platoon with whichever of Jarry/Ned they decide to keep next year.

So uhh yeah not terribly likely.

For me if I'm Dubas I'm looking at what can I control? I can't control whether or not big free agents will be available and/or even willing to sign here. But I can control how much cap flexibility I have by leaving myself an opening for whatever trade/fa opportunities make themselves available this off season. So to that end Dubas needs to be clearing as much chaff as he can from this roster and acquiring picks and prospects to give himself the flexibility to both improve the system but also have assets for players that could help now and in the future.

However it was framed, I think the objective now needs to be to get him playing up to his capabilities and then go from there. It's not like he's a complete bum of a player. He's been a competent top 9 forward before. He's not that old and should be capable of being that again.

Yeah, I think it's pretty much out of the question, realistically speaking. Shit, I'm not even totally convinced Washington's gonna keep this up or do anything come playoff time tbh.

I think that's pretty much Dubas' current approach tbh. Just don't make my life harder down the road. It sucks and I despise it as a fan, but the here and now doesn't f***in' matter anymore. Hasn't for literally years. Whether Dubas can navigate the post-Sid chapter and how well he does is what he needs to be really measured by imo. I say this as someone who thinks he's been a f***ing dipshit thus far, but again, it doesn't -really- f***ing matter anymore. Not really.

 

[BusinessGoose]

"long time listener, first time caller... I just wanted to ask Kyle if he's excited about scouting for the top five pick that we're getting by keeping king Sullivan around?"

 

[Gurglesons]

Kyle Dubas says blown leads ‘a problem’ Mike Sullivan, Penguins must rectify​

 

[Ulf5]

Taylor Haase
11:50 AM - NOVEMBER 20, 2024 CRANBERRY, PA.
Good news: Kris Letang (illness) and Kevin Hayes (upper-body) are both on the ice for practice in regular jerseys.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Kyle Dubas says blown leads ‘a problem’ Mike Sullivan, Penguins must rectify​

Oh?